A study on pgd2 and androgens relationship

[StayPositive]

A 10 fold reduction in shedding is amazing!! I've yet to find anything that reduces my shedding that dramatically.

May I ask which niacin brand & dosage you are using?

A week ago, I started taking Life Extension No-flush Niacin 640mg (Niacin activity without the characteristic flush) but I'm guessing it's too soon to notice any shedding reduction. I'm curious how many weeks before you started to notice reduced shedding with Niacin? I'm curious if your shedding reduced all at once or if it sort of slowly ramped down?

You need the flush. The flush is caused by the elimination of pgd2.

Your No-flush Niacin is totally useless

 

[inmyhead]

You need the flush. The flush is caused by the elimination of pgd2.

Your No-flush Niacin is totally useless

Is there any paper which claims that niacin's flush is caused due to removal of pgd2? Also, how can we know that it removed pgd2 and not just makes follicles bathing in pgd2 due to flush?

 

[Charger]

Is there any paper which claims that niacin's flush is caused due to removal of pgd2? Also, how can we know that it removed pgd2 and not just makes follicles bathing in pgd2 due to flush?

We know it's PGD2 related because Aspirin, which lowers PGD2 by 86% will prevent the flush.

However, I'm a little hesitant to use or recommend niacin after reading in a study it increases serum PGD2. Whether that means more is freed up to damage follices or not, I don't know. Maybe it's bad for the hair until you no longer get noticeable flushing symptoms? Dunno, just speculating.

But I think if someone is interested in lowering PGD2, there are better options.

 

[Isneezedsohard]

We know it's PGD2 related because Aspirin, which lowers PGD2 by 86% will prevent the flush.

However, I'm a little hesitant to use or recommend niacin after reading in a study it increases serum PGD2. Whether that means more is freed up to damage follices or not, I don't know. Maybe it's bad for the hair until you no longer get noticeable flushing symptoms? Dunno, just speculating.

But I think if someone is interested in lowering PGD2, there are better options.

what other options?? Out of curiosity. I'm using a castor oil+niacin combo currently.

 

[Charger]

what other options?? Out of curiosity. I'm using a castor oil+niacin combo currently.

TM30089 and OC000459 are both PGD2 inhibitors made for doing specifically that, and they're pretty affordable, just a matter of finding a reliable source.
Cetirizine lowers PGD2, as does Aspirin, but there are caveats to consider with both that have been discussed already. Ceti can have antihistamine effects on histamine receptors that actually have a relationship with testosterone production. Aspirin is mostly good, but it lowers PGD2 by inhibiting COX, not PGD2 itself, so you also get lowered PGE2 which is supposedly good for hair growth. It is also anti-estrogen which in theory can be bad for hair.

 

[Ticken]

Is there any paper which claims that niacin's flush is caused due to removal of pgd2? Also, how can we know that it removed pgd2 and not just makes follicles bathing in pgd2 due to flush?

"It is interesting to note the opposing effects of PGD2 (the prostaglandin that induces the niacin flush) and PGE2 in the balding model (above), where chronically high PGD2 resulted in suppression of PGE2. A pulsatile release of PGD2 (an ACUTE release) as in the niacin flush would be anti-inflammatory, not pro-inflammatory as with chronically high PGD2. Hence, you could see an INCREASE in PGE2 by suppressing chronically high PGD2. The balding model, in fact, shows hair growth and the cessation of hair follicle death resulting from slight modulation in the ratio of PGD2/PGE2, in which PGE2 is increased, while chronically high PGD2 levels are reduced to “normalize” the ratio. The niacin flush causes pulsatile, not chronic, release of PGD2."

Why the Niacin Flush May Be Surprisingly Beneficial to Your Health

Why We Think It May Reduce the Risk of ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE and Other Inflammatory Diseases, Including Atherosclerosis, Type 2 Diabetes, Ulcerative Colitis, Even Male Pattern Baldness Sandy Shaw WITHOUT PRIOR REVIEW BY DURK It has not been read or reviewed by Durk Pearson, due to considerations...

life-enhancement.com

 

[Isneezedsohard]

TM30089 and OC000459 are both PGD2 inhibitors made for doing specifically that, and they're pretty affordable, just a matter of finding a reliable source.
Cetirizine lowers PGD2, as does Aspirin, but there are caveats to consider with both that have been discussed already. Ceti can have antihistamine effects on histamine receptors that actually have a relationship with testosterone production. Aspirin is mostly good, but it lowers PGD2 by inhibiting COX, not PGD2 itself, so you also get lowered PGE2 which is supposedly good for hair growth. It is also anti-estrogen which in theory can be bad for hair.

could you use oral ceti? Or would it have to be topical?

 

[Charger]

could you use oral ceti? Or would it have to be topical?

The one study we have where it was used for hair loss was in topical form.

 

[Isneezedsohard]

The one study we have where it was used for hair loss was in topical form.

ok yeah-- thats what I thought.

 

[Pls_NW-1]

I thought that you wanted to grow hair? None of these guys are growing hair. Instead they talk about what might grow hair in ten years and on and on. "New pig study indicates cloning by 2045".

Haha but lets be real, if the pre-clinical study goes official, what should happen this or even next year, if they are legit, we are not far away from such a technology!

 

[StayPositive]

TM30089 and OC000459 are both PGD2 inhibitors made for doing specifically that, and they're pretty affordable, just a matter of finding a reliable source.
Cetirizine lowers PGD2, as does Aspirin, but there are caveats to consider with both that have been discussed already. Ceti can have antihistamine effects on histamine receptors that actually have a relationship with testosterone production. Aspirin is mostly good, but it lowers PGD2 by inhibiting COX, not PGD2 itself, so you also get lowered PGE2 which is supposedly good for hair growth. It is also anti-estrogen which in theory can be bad for hair.

Aspirin is a very powerful drug, baby aspirin (81mg) lowers pge2 level by 45%. I assume it lowers pgd2 at the same rate. I am still figuring which dosage will be the best. 1000-1500 is maybe too much and not very safe to take long term. And since 325 mg reduces pgd2 by around 86%, maybe it's enough. I don't know

 

[Charger]

I thought that you wanted to grow hair? None of these guys are growing hair. Instead they talk about what might grow hair in ten years and on and on. "New pig study indicates cloning by 2045". It's fine if you are curious but regrowth or improvement-wise, it's a waste of time. Min and finasteride work better than every single thing that they tout which are all hard to get and do little or nothing.

Aspirin huh? Well I have that at home but I was told that it interferes with minoxidil. Oh, you guys won't touch minoxidil.....

Anyway, we hair growers wish you guys the best of luck in your circular pursuits that no one else in the world wants because we have meds that work.

You act as if many here haven't already tried those options. For new solutions to be figured out, people have to be willing to try them. And you're being misleading by saying no one has ever regrown or halted hair loss without finasteride or hrt. And even if that were the case, HRT doesn't guarantee regrowth either.

Not every case of hair loss, no matter how minor, requires a nuclear castration regimen.
Not everyone wants to neuter themselves and morph into a weirdo talking about staring at the ocean and being blessed by the Goddess of hair or some sh*t.

If people want to join your cult, I'm sure they'll PM you, no one needs you going around trying to initiate them. You already have a thread up for people who are interested in that route.

 

[StayPositive]

And then we had the initial post which is impenetrable to most mortals and you read through it and you are like, wtf?

Prostaglandin D2 receptor (DP2) antagonist (TM30089) decreases dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-induced androgen receptor (AR) and prostaglandin expression in human dermal papilla cells (hDPCs). The mRNA expression of cyclooxygenase-2 (COX2), prostaglandin D2 synthase (PTGDS) and DP2 was examined in hDPCs treated with DHT for 24 h. The mRNA expression of COX2 (A), PTGDS (B) and DP2 (C) was induced by 100 nM DHT. DP2 protein expression was strongly induced by 100 nM DHT at 5 h (D). hDPCs were cultured for 24 h with DHT, as indicated. The level of PGD2 receptor in the supernatant was evaluated in three independent experiments (E). The relative mRNA levels were normalized to that of GAPDH. hDPCs were pretreated with 20 µM TM30089 for 1 h and then treated with 100 nM DHT for 5 h. The protein level of AR (F) and DP2 (G) was measured by western blot. TM30089 decreased the DHT-induced AR and DP2 expression. β-actin served as a loading control for protein normalization. The results are expressed as the mean  ±  SD of three independent experiments: CTL; control. * p < 0.05 compared with the control (0 nM DHT). # p < 0.05 compared with the DHT 100 nM.

"I am convinced PGD2 is the key guys".

Um, what now? This is just like it was written by someone like Rainman. Whoever wrote that seriously lacks all ability to be coherent so why should we bother? This is a waste of time so I am moving on from the prostaglandins although I wish everyone well here. They don't care about hair loss. Seriously whoever wrote that above appears to be mentally ill.

Everybody seriously interested about the science behind male pattern baldness can understand the study i originally posted

 

[Charger]

One guy on here had eh results but none of you are subject to any sort of bias control or placebo control so you think you are all these, eh. You are less scientific than you pretend to be.

You changed genders and still have to wear a wig.
Yet are trying to convince men that they'd be happier going your route.

Pretty sure most guys would be happier staying male and just wearing a hair piece.

 

[it2wi]

I thought that you wanted to grow hair? None of these guys are growing hair. Instead they talk about what might grow hair in ten years and on and on. "New pig study indicates cloning by 2045". It's fine if you are curious but regrowth or improvement-wise, it's a waste of time. Min and finasteride work better than every single thing that they tout which are all hard to get and do little or nothing.

Not sure if you have noticed but we are in a thread posted in the "New Research, Studies, and Technologies" category......
We're not here to talk about minoxidil and finasteride. We are here to talk about "New Research, Studies, and Technologies". And many of us have seen better results from PGD2 / PGE2 than minoxidil and finasteride. Your opinion doesn't make anything fact.

Please stop spamming and derailing convos between others who actually want to talk about PGD2, etc.

 

[pegasus2]

This is huge:

Prostaglandin D2 receptor (DP2) antagonist (TM30089) decreases dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-induced androgen receptor (AR) and prostaglandin expression in human dermal papilla cells (hDPCs)

I have been trying forever to get TM. I was told it might be available again in the spring. Until then I'm using OC.

 

[Charger]

This is what high estrogen does to you, kids.

 

[StayPositive]

I have been trying forever to get TM. I was told it might be available again in the spring. Until them I'm using OC.

TM is very powerful, it disrupts sleep badly apparently. OC seems good. Do you have results and sides with it?

I saw one of your post, you said ramatroban completely stopped your shedding in the past. That's very interesting

Do you still think pgd2 doesn't play an important role in male pattern baldness?

 

[LouisSarkozy]

TM30089 and OC000459 are both PGD2 inhibitors made for doing specifically that, and they're pretty affordable, just a matter of finding a reliable source.
Cetirizine lowers PGD2, as does Aspirin, but there are caveats to consider with both that have been discussed already. Ceti can have antihistamine effects on histamine receptors that actually have a relationship with testosterone production. Aspirin is mostly good, but it lowers PGD2 by inhibiting COX, not PGD2 itself, so you also get lowered PGE2 which is supposedly good for hair growth. It is also anti-estrogen which in theory can be bad for hair.

sorry to ask but would ceti increase or lower test? thanks

 

[pegasus2]

TM is very powerful, it disrupts sleep badly apparently. OC seems good. Do you have results and sides with it?

I saw one of your post, you said ramatroban completely stopped your shedding in the past. That's very interesting

Do you still think pgd2 doesn't play an important role in male pattern baldness?

It depends. The majority of balding men's follicles are PGD2 insensitive. Also, if you're on dutasteride then PGD2 is probably already taken care of, so PGD2 inhibitors are redundant. I only want TM to use with SW033291 because that inhibits the enzyme that breaks down PGD2 allowing it to accumulate.