Age, DHT levels, prevalence of balding and oxidative stress

[harold]

Nitric oxide in the human hair follicle: constitutive and dihydrotestosterone-induced nitric oxide synthase expression and NO production in dermal papilla cells.
"The free radical nitric oxide, generated by different types of epidermal and dermal cells, has been identified as an important mediator in various physiological and pathophysiological processes of the skin, such as regulation of blood flow, melanogenesis, wound healing, and hyperproliferative skin diseases. However, little is known about the role of NO in the human hair follicle and in hair cycling processes. Here we demonstrate for the first time that dermal papilla cells derived from human hair follicles spontaneously produce NO by measuring nitrate and nitrite levels in culture supernatants. This biomolecule is apparently formed by the endothelial isoform of nitric oxide synthase, which was detected at the mRNA and protein levels. Remarkably, basal NO level was enhanced threefold by stimulating dermal papilla cells with 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) but not with testosterone. Addition of N-[3-(aminomethyl)benzyl]acetamidine (1400W), a highly selective inhibitor of inducible nitric oxide synthase, restrained the elevation in NO level induced by DHT. Analyses of DHT-stimulated cells at the mRNA and protein levels confirmed the expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase. These findings suggest NO as a signaling molecule in human dermal papilla cells and implicate basal and androgen-mediated NO production to be involved in the regulation of hair follicle activity."

I've read that full study, not just the abstract. It's quite interesting, but I find a major fault in it, in that they tested only OCCIPITAL human scalp hair follicles, and not balding frontal follicles or androgen-dependent beard or other body hair follicles. That was quite a disservice to us, because it would have been fascinating to see how the nitric acid response differs from one type of hair follicle to another. Instead, they chose only one single "in between" follicle: the occipital kind. That's obviously a glaring oversight, and doesn't do us much good.

There always seems to be something like that.
If you get the chance Bryan could you take a look at my question here
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=42194
would really love to get an answer on this - I suspect not much is known for certain though.
hh

 

[tino]

I am not farell,but im also a supporter of the theory that UV Rays are bad for male pattern baldness too.Evidence for that is strong.Skin ages due UV influence,and telogen effluvium is reported many times in the sommer months.Especially in the late summer,when the heat is big.And we should not forget the missing melatonin in the summertime.


My preliminary theory about the role of sebum in the line of male pattern baldness.

Bald men have bigger sebaceous glands then non bald men.This hyperplasya occures due Androgen stimmulation.Whereas other influences like for example substance-p,and UV influence can also lead to increased Sebaceous gland activity.The study up,supposes that oxidative Stress is involved in sebaceous gland hyperplasya.Sebum delivers Antioxidants,like vitamin e to the skin.This two facts,lead me to the supposition,that the hyperplasya of the sebaceous glands,is a defence mechanism for androgen,or other way induced oxidative stress.The system realises in the presence of oxidative stress,that the external skin has to be protected.Thats the reason why sebum delivers the vitamin e there.Im not sure,if the sebum trys to work antioxidative in the inner skin.I will try to find prooves for that.


http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v113/ ... 0554a.html





http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v107/ ... 0424a.html

 

[tino]

Till now, there are not studies regarding the existence or nonexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs in children years before puberty.


I also dont know such studys.The only things i know is,that praepubertaer children can get ANDROGENIC alopecia.Not ANDROGENETIC,peculiar androgenic A due systemic subrarenal disorders for example.But this is a very interesting question.

Now, all studies show that sebaceous gland or better pilosebaceous unit can make androgens from cholesterol, and we can ask, when start this system to work? After puberty? I have a hunch that is a lot of years before, just when appears terminal hair.


What are your thoughts?You want to proove that Androgenes are involved in building bigger scalp Hair follicle anlage in children,which can produce the terminal hair?I know that TGF-beta is involved in building the embrional anlage for hair growth.TGF-beta,gives and takes.And this cytokine is stimmulated by androgenes.This baby hair,changes to terminal hair,at a point,when the systemic igf-1 rises.So round the third year.And Androgenes upregulate IGF- gene expression to build body hair.

If this are your thoughts,....thats not digressive.

 

[purecontrol]

Nitric oxide in the human hair follicle: constitutive and dihydrotestosterone-induced nitric oxide synthase expression and NO production in dermal papilla cells.
"The free radical nitric oxide, generated by different types of epidermal and dermal cells, has been identified as an important mediator in various physiological and pathophysiological processes of the skin, such as regulation of blood flow, melanogenesis, wound healing, and hyperproliferative skin diseases. However, little is known about the role of NO in the human hair follicle and in hair cycling processes. Here we demonstrate for the first time that dermal papilla cells derived from human hair follicles spontaneously produce NO by measuring nitrate and nitrite levels in culture supernatants. This biomolecule is apparently formed by the endothelial isoform of nitric oxide synthase, which was detected at the mRNA and protein levels. Remarkably, basal NO level was enhanced threefold by stimulating dermal papilla cells with 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) but not with testosterone. Addition of N-[3-(aminomethyl)benzyl]acetamidine (1400W), a highly selective inhibitor of inducible nitric oxide synthase, restrained the elevation in NO level induced by DHT. Analyses of DHT-stimulated cells at the mRNA and protein levels confirmed the expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase. These findings suggest NO as a signaling molecule in human dermal papilla cells and implicate basal and androgen-mediated NO production to be involved in the regulation of hair follicle activity."

I've read that full study, not just the abstract. It's quite interesting, but I find a major fault in it, in that they tested only OCCIPITAL human scalp hair follicles, and not balding frontal follicles or androgen-dependent beard or other body hair follicles. That was quite a disservice to us, because it would have been fascinating to see how the nitric acid response differs from one type of hair follicle to another. Instead, they chose only one single "in between" follicle: the occipital kind. That's obviously a glaring oversight, and doesn't do us much good.

There always seems to be something like that.
If you get the chance Bryan could you take a look at my question here
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=42194
would really love to get an answer on this - I suspect not much is known for certain though.
hh

NO is double edged sword as it will help form and keep capilaries, but if you do not have high enough anti-oxidant capacity if will easily become peroxynitrate and this will start closing and killing cpilaries not to mention dampen total circulation.

So look for supplements that are potent perynitrate scavengers ie Chocamine, Hazel bark, Rosemarry, ect You will have to search for the others

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

if topical anti-oxidants dont work to slow hair loss....how does PIROCTONE OLAMINE shampoo work? Weve seen studies proving that it helps against male pattern baldness?

 

[Bryan]

This deliverances from greece or egypt,whatever....are scientific non valid,because informations like for example,what will happen when a castrated subject will get thyroid disease,or has low Iron are missing.Noone investigated that....the only thing they saw is,that there was a difference to their genetic kinsman,when castrated.What makes you so sure that they keeped their hair full and healthy until they died?Again,Castration does maybe stopp further progression of androgen induced Apoptotic influence,but it can do nothing for other influences.The complete inhibition of a important hormone,is no adhesive tape for hair and skin aging.

I've watched this back-and-forth discussion with some amusement, and I agree with Michael Barry that the genetic factor having to do with the response to androgens is BY FAR the most important component of androgenetic alopecia. Having said that, I don't doubt that some of these other peripheral issues (like having to do with antioxidants and various nutritional factors) have _some_ relevance for balding, but I think they are minor issues. If I were forced to put a number to it, I'd make a wild guess and say that maybe they are only 5% or so of the problem.

Your statements above about thyroid disease and "low iron" problems are themselves pretty irrelevant, because the issue here is true androgenetic alopecia, not other forms of hairloss.

 

[Bryan]

Till now, there are not studies regarding the existence or nonexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs in children years before puberty.

Now, all studies show that sebaceous gland or better pilosebaceous unit can make androgens from cholesterol, and we can ask, when start this system to work? After puberty? I have a hunch that is a lot of years before, just when appears terminal hair.

Said that, I request any real scientific persons to solve this dilemma with the proper tools

Why don't you test your theory YOURSELF, once and for all? All you need is the availability of a small child or two, and some Sebutape test-strips to measure sebum production. It's high-time that you stop TALKING about your theory, and start doing some serious testing!

 

[docj077]

if topical anti-oxidants dont work to slow hair loss....how does PIROCTONE OLAMINE shampoo work? Weve seen studies proving that it helps against male pattern baldness?

Piroctone Olamine isn't a anti-oxidant in the purest sense of the phrase. It's an iron chelator, so it removes iron from processes that it could potentially catalyze that would normally lead to the formation of free radicals.

The stuff is scary. Especially, when taken internally. However, topically it might have some worth. It's a topical anti-septic and anti-mycotic. Plus it reduces inflammation through the prevention of iron catalyzed processes. It's still a crappy answer to the problem, but luckily the stuff sticks around awhile when applied to the skin.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

if topical anti-oxidants dont work to slow hair loss....how does PIROCTONE OLAMINE shampoo work? Weve seen studies proving that it helps against male pattern baldness?

Piroctone Olamine isn't a anti-oxidant in the purest sense of the phrase. It's an iron chelator, so it removes iron from processes that it could potentially catalyze that would normally lead to the formation of free radicals.

The stuff is scary. Especially, when taken internally. However, topically it might have some worth. It's a topical anti-septic and anti-mycotic. Plus it reduces inflammation through the prevention of iron catalyzed processes. It's still a crappy answer to the problem, but luckily the stuff sticks around awhile when applied to the skin.

do you think it is worth using....or not?

 

[tino]

This deliverances from greece or egypt,whatever....are scientific non valid,because informations like for example,what will happen when a castrated subject will get thyroid disease,or has low Iron are missing.Noone investigated that....the only thing they saw is,that there was a difference to their genetic kinsman,when castrated.What makes you so sure that they keeped their hair full and healthy until they died?Again,Castration does maybe stopp further progression of androgen induced Apoptotic influence,but it can do nothing for other influences.The complete inhibition of a important hormone,is no adhesive tape for hair and skin aging.

I've watched this back-and-forth discussion with some amusement, and I agree with Michael Barry that the genetic factor having to do with the response to androgens is BY FAR the most important component of androgenetic alopecia. Having said that, I don't doubt that some of these other peripheral issues (like having to do with antioxidants and various nutritional factors) have _some_ relevance for balding, but I think they are minor issues. If I were forced to put a number to it, I'd make a wild guess and say that maybe they are only 5% or so of the problem.

Your statements above about thyroid disease and "low iron" problems are themselves pretty irrelevant, because the issue here is true androgenetic alopecia, not other forms of hairloss.

citation:Your statements above about thyroid disease and "low iron" problems are themselves pretty irrelevant, because the issue here is true androgenetic alopecia, not other forms of hairloss.

Oh bryan,im very surprised

If there is a praedispostion to male pattern baldness.....(i would like to call it genetic patttern baldness here,because i dont belive that every so called male pattern baldness is strong androgen dependet),than the androgenic influence,for example in cases of rather long CAG Repeats,must not be so strong,that it reduces other known APOPTOSIS inducing influences to a minimum.Week genetic meets one strong trigger like for example iron deficiney,or bad adjusted thyroid disease,or week genetic meets more week trigger together,like for example zinc deficiency,latent malnutrition,smoking,Stress.

For example.....


http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/ ... 2007a.html


what is to fault whith that?

I think you know the works about stress and apoptosis of HF.....and i think you also saw the study about Caspase-3 and Zink i have posted.

Men do not develop hair loss due Iron deficiency,thyorid diseases,or whatever?Ok you can argument that the hairloss in such cases will be diffuse.But think about the lack of resistance,once attacked/insufficient hair follicles have against all the winds.The hair follicle is a little hormonal factory,which has the capacity to protect himself,when he is young.Old hair follicles fall quicker,like old men,when they develop pneumonia.Its absoloutly logical,that aged follickles will fall as first,under bad influences from every direction.

Ok,we can get agreed,when we talk about cases,which show extreme strong progression in their mid twenties,signed due quick temple receeding,and Tonsur.In such cases,i think that genetic can override triggers.And maybe then,in Fact androgenes have the strongest influence.


But what about temple receeding guys like Johnny deep,Tom Selleck,or unknown people,who develop a slow patternd thinning in their 30 for the first time?Is that really classic male pattern baldness,basically induced due the prooven Androgenetic pathogenesis?Sure...normal non scientific working doctors would say yes....under appointment of JB Hamilton

 

[tino]

Re: addition

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v123/ ... 2462a.html


Lets complete the puzzle a little

See the vicious cycle.Some people are already very stressed,when they develop the first signs of temple receeding.

The myth that Stress cant cause hair loss,is no longer an issue.The myth that stress induced hair loss over a longer periode is reversible,is no longer an issue.Even our german most conservative Professor said that openly.

 

[Bryan]

Hey Tino, what is YOUR best guess as to the importance of these other factors in male pattern baldness? I went out on a limb and "guesstimated" that it was around 5% or so. What is YOUR estimate?

 

[tino]

Hey Tino, what is YOUR best guess as to the importance of these other factors in male pattern baldness? I went out on a limb and "guesstimated" that it was around 5% or so. What is YOUR estimate?

I cant...won t asses that in a figure.I just can say,that especially the class eccept the class ,which adepts male pattern baldness in a very strong amount in early years,schuld check their health and nutrition status,additional to conservative treatment,or experimental androgen inhibition.

Genetic analysis would also make sense.Check for CAG-Repeat lenght of the AR,or more.

 

[tino]

Re: addition

citation:citation:Your statements above about thyroid disease and "low iron" problems are themselves pretty irrelevant, because the issue here is true androgenetic alopecia, not other forms of hairloss.


The problem between me and michael is,that he apparently throw s every kind of mens hair loss problems,in one pot,under appointment of the existence of bald apes.

 

[michael barry]

HairTodayGoneTommorow,

Piroctone olamine decreased sebum secretion in the trial with ketoconazole and prythione zinc. The researchers mentioned it at the end, but didn't give us a percentage. I washed one wrist in nizoral for three months a while back, thinking it would decrease body hair, but like lavendar----found that it actually increased the hair and darkened it, much to my consternation. It only decreased sebum by something like 8 percent in the hair trial in shampoo, but I'd imagine the cream does more----you'd have to keep the shampoo on for a few minutes for the penetration to be necessary.




Harold,

Ive not really even read but ONE of your responses. Not even looking at what you reallly write or are stating, sorry.




Lets look at what Tino wrote, shall we?.................

you wrote:Gee, "oxidative stress" didn't cause this woman's hair to fall out. Nope, it was just testosterone treatment. Diet didn't change, hmm..........nope, just testosterone treatment. I wonder what "stone age" "triggers" might have caused her to have that
moustache and aged her skin and made her head hair go?

You ignore again every science.This displacement from oxidative stress as thing between the things,.....i call it simply ignoring.Sure...noone negated that there may no oxidative Stress in bearth growth due androgenes.By the way...not only androgenes can induce body hair growth.IGF-1 can do it too,and Minoxidil also.Sure not a moustache like Tom Sellek.Many non androgenic working drugs can induce hypertrichosis.

I posted a youtube video of a woman (and two sets of pictures of women) who started taking testosterone. Two out of three went bald (one a NW3 or so). They grew beard hairs. This "Tino" is asserting that "minoxidil or IGF-1 "can do it too". Do you really FUKKKKKINGGGGGGGG believe that is what the two women have done folks? They have been spraying minoxidil, or a prostaglandin analogue, or phenytoin on their faces? Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They just took testosterone, and their beards grew (DUH!!!!!)




Ive been meaning to "get off" hair websites for a while. Im bored with it. Finasteride is as good (and safe) an alpha five inhibitor as I believe we will have for quite some time.
Prox-N is the best trichotic topical that directly combats the male pattern baldness-process as I believe we will have for a while.
I have piddled around attempting to find a cheap receptor blocker topical thats effective that doesnt' have to be used twice a day and is easier to apply (and spread around) that spironolactone THAT DOESNT INHIBIT ANGIOGENESIS. Im trying topical beta sis in my shampoo and will continue to fool around with a couple of other things (rose hips, arncia in all probablity).

Unitl hair multiplication (or better yet, in vitro hair multiplication in which hair cells are grown to full hairs in medium before implantion as full hairs---like the new Intercytex patent just filed suggests), I really dont look for much "new" to happen in androgenic alopecia.

But I will tell all of you this (Including you Harold)-----------------eating hamburgers or whatever isn't setting off any "genetic trigger". The point with the transexuals is that they eat the same western diet before and after testosterone, but they bald AFTER the testosterone. It ain't the tacos. People have went bald for many thousands of years in almost all cultures on this planet. Stone-age Ainu of Japan sometimes went bald and considered it to be a great curse to them. Lapps in Northern Europe sometimes go bald. Apes and other primates, our genetic ancestors, go bald. They eat as "naturally" as you can get.

Various "supplement sellers" like male pattern baldness-research.org (or whatever they call it these days) would like you to believe if you take a belly full of supplements each day that you can "turn off" your genetic tendency to baldness. This is bullcrap. Some hyperhealthy whole-foods types go as bald as beets. The only thing in the old pre-war Japanese diet that probably DELAYED baldness in the Japanese was lots of soy, lots of green tea, lots of phytosterols and phytoestrogens in their veggie-heavy and rice heavy diets.


In short folks, to stop losing your hair with what WE HAVE NOW, use finas and topical spironolactone cream twice a day (even though its a pain-in-the-***) and choose a topical hypertrichotic------with the most science backing it up that you can find. Thats about all we have.


Dave001, who knew a shiitload about hair, got tired of bullshitt on this site (and others) and quit posting. Ive seen others come and go over the years who really did know their stuff like TheAlmightyGodofHairloss and Matt500 off other sites. Ive about reached that point. Bored with it. If I find a topical anti-androgen that is successfull and isn't anti-angiogenic, I'll pop back in. But for now, Im burned out...................................best of luck

 

[tino]

you wrote:Gee, "oxidative stress" didn't cause this woman's hair to fall out. Nope, it was just testosterone treatment. Diet
I posted a youtube video of a woman (and two sets of pictures of women) who started taking testosterone. Two out of three went bald (one a NW3 or so). They grew beard hairs. This "Tino" is asserting that "minoxidil or IGF-1 "can do it too". Do you really FUKKKKKINGGGGGGGG believe that is what the two women have done folks? They have been spraying minoxidil, or a prostaglandin analogue, or phenytoin on their faces? Hell no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They just took testosterone, and their beards grew (DUH!!!!!)

Yes,but think about,that induce growth in intact tissue is much easier than induce growth in damaged tissue.In this case,androgen stimmulation is adequate,but in cases of androgen induced male pattern baldness,androgen blocade cant restore it completly.



Ive been meaning to "get off" hair websites for a while. Im bored with it. Finasteride is as good (and safe) an alpha five inhibitor as I believe we will have for quite some time.
Prox-N is the best trichotic topical that directly combats the male pattern baldness-process as I believe we will have for a while.
I have piddled around attempting to find a cheap receptor blocker topical thats effective that doesnt' have to be used twice a day and is easier to apply (and spread around) that spironolactone THAT DOESNT INHIBIT ANGIOGENESIS. Im trying topical beta sis in my shampoo and will continue to fool around with a couple of other things (rose hips, arncia in all probablity).

Unitl hair multiplication (or better yet, in vitro hair multiplication in which hair cells are grown to full hairs in medium before implantion as full hairs---like the new Intercytex patent just filed suggests), I really dont look for much "new" to happen in androgenic alopecia.


Worthfoull goals are follicle targeting liposomal igf-1 inducers.I think they are much more better than tgf-beta inhibitors with the same galenic.To my knowlegde,developments in that direction are not that far away anymore.Togeter whith a new strong k channel opener,this can really do wonder.I think im not wrong there.If you use both,and additional a dual systemic 5-a-R Inhibitor,you will have best chances for regrowth.Pfizer works whith a new k channel opener....or im i wrong?

You are more topical orientated....or not?

Dont know much about hair multiplication,or stemm cell therapie.Professor hoffman said that he will make his stemm cell study inbetween the next year.He canvass probandes current.

But I will tell all of you this (Including you Harold)-----------------eating hamburgers or whatever isn't setting off any "genetic trigger". The point with the transexuals is that they eat the same western diet before and after testosterone, but they bald AFTER the testosterone. It ain't the tacos. People have went bald for many thousands of years in almost all cultures on this planet. Stone-age Ainu of Japan sometimes went bald and considered it to be a great curse to them. Lapps in Northern Europe sometimes go bald. Apes and other primates, our genetic ancestors, go bald. They eat as "naturally" as you can get.


Sure...food alone cant restore,or prevent balding due a strong hormonal authority.I never said so.See what i have postet bryan.....strong genetic...androgenetic or whatever genetic,overrides the most triggers.By the way,im not so familaer whith hamburgers,but if the meet in them is comparably whith good red meet from the butcher,than its not bad,but rather good for male pattern baldness

Various "supplement sellers" like male pattern baldness-research.org (or whatever they call it these days) would like you to believe if you take a belly full of supplements each day that you can "turn off" your genetic tendency to baldness. This is bullcrap. Some hyperhealthy whole-foods types go as bald as beets. The only thing in the old pre-war Japanese diet that probably DELAYED baldness in the Japanese was lots of soy, lots of green tea, lots of phytosterols and phytoestrogens in their veggie-heavy and rice heavy diets.


I hate this supplement sellers too.They have no clue about the triggers,and the pathogenesis of male pattern baldness.They dont know what supplement is good in different cases,and they dont know nothing about the right dosages.Their products are not prooven-i only reccoment prooven supplements.

Aha.....its nice to read that you belive in the power of japanese diet


I would reccomend you to collect more and more new cognitions from the literatur,and this board.The more we know,the better we can treat this pest.You can never do enough to fight the burden of male pattern baldness.

Dont belive every antiangiogenetic study......writing publications is not always serious....writing and writing and more writing is survival guarantee for many small researchers.

 

[tino]

Re: addition

the problem by using self made topicals is,that most of them have to be mixed correct.Everything must be perfect,they molecul has as first to pass the skin deep enough,then the ph must be correct resaerched,what is not that easy.The storage temperature must be correct,some substances break if the temperature is wrong.Some must be stored in the fridge.Many people on my board mixed some stuff,and it did nt worked for them because they mixed it wrong.

Some days ago,i have listend to a further training.The leader was Mrs Garcia bartels,the second chief of the berlin charite.She talked about angiogenesis inducer,and throwth carefully,and under the aspect of week proove the k-5-special-n-tinktur,something from germany in the room.I used this 15 years ago,...it burns like hell,but it worked for me.It made my hair extreme dark and strong.But i was in a very early stage at this time.

 

[tino]

Re: addition

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... d_RVDocSum


the mean working substance of this topical.Read also the releated links.I have no full articles,so i cant say for sure,if the blood flow partially depends on angiogenesis stimmulation.

 

[Armando Jose]

Till now, there are not studies regarding the existence or nonexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs in children years before puberty.


I also dont know such studys.The only things i know is,that praepubertaer children can get ANDROGENIC alopecia.Not ANDROGENETIC,peculiar androgenic A due systemic subrarenal disorders for example.But this is a very interesting question.

Now, all studies show that sebaceous gland or better pilosebaceous unit can make androgens from cholesterol, and we can ask, when start this system to work? After puberty? I have a hunch that is a lot of years before, just when appears terminal hair.


What are your thoughts?You want to proove that Androgenes are involved in building bigger scalp Hair follicle anlage in children,which can produce the terminal hair?I know that TGF-beta is involved in building the embrional anlage for hair growth.TGF-beta,gives and takes.And this cytokine is stimmulated by androgenes.This baby hair,changes to terminal hair,at a point,when the systemic igf-1 rises.So round the third year.And Androgenes upregulate IGF- gene expression to build body hair.

If this are your thoughts,....thats not digressive.

Hi Tino;

My thoughts are similar at your comments. Not all are write in studies, it is necesary look when appears androgens in healthy scalp hairs.

Armando

 

[Armando Jose]

Till now, there are not studies regarding the existence or nonexistence of androgens in the vicinity of scalp hairs in children years before puberty.

Now, all studies show that sebaceous gland or better pilosebaceous unit can make androgens from cholesterol, and we can ask, when start this system to work? After puberty? I have a hunch that is a lot of years before, just when appears terminal hair.

Said that, I request any real scientific persons to solve this dilemma with the proper tools

Why don't you test your theory YOURSELF, once and for all? All you need is the availability of a small child or two, and some Sebutape test-strips to measure sebum production. It's high-time that you stop TALKING about your theory, and start doing some serious testing!

Hi Bryan;

thank you for your suggestion
You used sebutape test-strip in fronhead but, are they useful to test sebum in hairy zones?

Armando