Apple Cider Vinegar... part II

[Rogazzle]

I don't agree with Hoppi's theories either, but it's time for you to give this guy a break, you have been incessantly belittling this guy, to no end. At least he doesn't deny the Androgenetic Alopecia theory like some people on here.

It's time that you cut this sh*t out.

Well I did back off. But the dude is like a Jim Jones or David Koresh of the hairloss diaspora around here. If you read his garbage over at the IH forums, then you'll get a sense of the dangerous ideas he's putting into these kids heads over there.

I don't think anyone should humor his public delusions.

IH Forum?

immorta(L) (h)air

The word is being censored for some reason.

 

[G k]

There's a good cross section of people who feel smoking "medicinal" marijuana is beneficial to them, irrespective of the dangers to their lung health. This goes to show how being ignorant about medicine and personal health choices doesn't bode well for ones life expectancy in the long run.

Do some research, first of all medicinal marijuana can be administered via vaporizor which negates the need for combustion, and eliminates the carcinogenic chemicals that would have been released upon combustion. Secondly, Marijuana's active ingredient THC, has been shown to retard Lung cancer cell growth in vitro, and more recently in animal studies as well, which suggests that marijuana actually reduces ones chance of lung cancer, other studies have found that it retards growth of breast cancer cells as well.

ScienceDaily (Apr. 17, 2007) — ''The active ingredient in marijuana cuts tumor growth in common lung cancer in half and significantly reduces the ability of the cancer to spread, say researchers at Harvard University who tested the chemical in both lab and mouse studies.

They say this is the first set of experiments to show that the compound, Delta-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), inhibits EGF-induced growth and migration in epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) expressing non-small cell lung cancer cell lines. Lung cancers that over-express EGFR are usually highly aggressive and resistant to chemotherapy.

THC that targets cannabinoid receptors CB1 and CB2 is similar in function to endocannabinoids, which are cannabinoids that are naturally produced in the body and activate these receptors. The researchers suggest that THC or other designer agents that activate these receptors might be used in a targeted fashion to treat lung cancer.

"The beauty of this study is that we are showing that a substance of abuse, if used prudently, may offer a new road to therapy against lung cancer," said Anju Preet, Ph.D., a researcher in the Division of Experimental Medicine.

Acting through cannabinoid receptors CB1 and CB2, endocannabinoids (as well as THC) are thought to play a role in variety of biological functions, including pain and anxiety control, and inflammation. Although a medical derivative of THC, known as Marinol, has been approved for use as an appetite stimulant for cancer patients, and a small number of U.S. states allow use of medical marijuana to treat the same side effect, few studies have shown that THC might have anti-tumor activity, Preet says. The only clinical trial testing THC as a treatment against cancer growth was a recently completed British pilot study in human glioblastoma.

In the present study, the researchers first demonstrated that two different lung cancer cell lines as well as patient lung tumor samples express CB1 and CB2, and that non-toxic doses of THC inhibited growth and spread in the cell lines. "When the cells are pretreated with THC, they have less EGFR stimulated invasion as measured by various in-vitro assays," Preet said.

Then, for three weeks, researchers injected standard doses of THC into mice that had been implanted with human lung cancer cells, and found that tumors were reduced in size and weight by about 50 percent in treated animals compared to a control group. There was also about a 60 percent reduction in cancer lesions on the lungs in these mice as well as a significant reduction in protein markers associated with cancer progression, Preet says.

Although the researchers do not know why THC inhibits tumor growth, they say the substance could be activating molecules that arrest the cell cycle. They speculate that THC may also interfere with angiogenesis and vascularization, which promotes cancer growth.''

Source- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 193338.htm

Source- http://www.aacr.org/

There's a good cross section of people who feel smoking "medicinal" marijuana....]

Why do you think I wrote "smoking"?

So my original assertion still stands.

- Many of the carcinogens and co-carcinogens present in tobacco smoke are also present in smoke from marijuana.

- Marijuana smoking does cause inflammation and cell damage, and it has been associated with pre-cancerous changes in lung tissue.

- Marijuana has been shown to cause immune system dysfunction, possibly predisposing individuals to cancer.

http://lungcancer.about.com/od/causesoflungcance1/f/marijuana.htm

Rogazzle,

Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Thats why you vaporize, man! zero smoke, zero carcinogens.

Its the only way to go. Unless of course you eat it.

 

[Hoppi]

Eating it is good ^^


And erm, I don't think any of my posts on IH are any more alternative or whatever than my posts on here. I post pretty much the same kind of stuff on the three main ones I frequent (HairLossTalk.com, IH and CureZone), because the things I post are simply my views!

 

[Aedan]

Progress report on ACV...

I been on it 4-5 months, my brother 6+

Conclusion: It does f*** all.

Sorry ladz. was a nice idea. I may keep it up though, it seems to be helping my fitness and ripped-ness lol...

 

[Rogazzle]

Progress report on ACV...

I been on it 4-5 months, my brother 6+

Conclusion: It does f*ck all.

Sorry ladz. was a nice idea. I may keep it up though, it seems to be helping my fitness and ripped-ness lol...

Amazing. We didn't expect that.
\

 

[Hoppi]

For the record Hoppi...the only problem I have with your suggestions is regarding CS......I know of someone who had a bad time with that stuff. Other than that, what you suggest may or may not work like the other stuff in this section of the forum and I got no problems with them or you. I even use some of the same things as you....just for the record, anyway.

oh ok, what happened to them? Other than argyria, CS should cause no problems except die-off, as far as I'm aware. I got die-off pretty fast from CS, or at least what I perceive as die-off.

Another good testimonial about CS

Progress report on ACV...

I been on it 4-5 months, my brother 6+

Conclusion: It does f*ck all.

Sorry ladz. was a nice idea. I may keep it up though, it seems to be helping my fitness and ripped-ness lol...

I think one of the most important things of all, here and pretty much anywhere for like, humanity, is to STOP GENERALIZING!! Just because something did not do anything for you DOESN'T mean it doesn't do anything for anyone. Hell, finasteride does not work for some people - does that mean the people who it did work for are all liers? Now, I know finasteride has more claiming success than ACV, but my point stands that it's not good to generalize because we might be casting things aside prematurely

 

[Rogazzle]

Progress report on ACV...

I been on it 4-5 months, my brother 6+

Conclusion: It does f*ck all.

Sorry ladz. was a nice idea. I may keep it up though, it seems to be helping my fitness and ripped-ness lol...

I think one of the most important things of all, here and pretty much anywhere for like, humanity, is to STOP GENERALIZING!! Just because something did not do anything for you DOESN'T mean it doesn't do anything for anyone. Hell, finasteride does not work for some people - does that mean the people who it did work for are all liers? Now, I know finasteride has more claiming success than ACV, but my point stands that it's not good to generalize these things

Scraping the barrel Hoppi. Really scraping the barrel.

BTW, if you need a hug, I'm there for ya brotha.

 

[Hoppi]

It's really, really not. I hear countless stories of things that some people swear by not working for others. I don't know the exact reasons, but it is true.

Even our favourite treatments on this forum such as minoxidil, finasteride, Nizoral, etc, don't work for everybody. It's really very poor science to take one guy saying "It didn't work for me" as proof it can't work for anybody, surely you must understand that.

And for the record, I have nothing to lose or gain regarding ACV. I never claimed ACV was a cure-all, I said that ACV should be able to mop up liver fat and kill candida. Which it does. But whether it does this enough to correct the problems and whether these are problems that that individual actually has are different questions entirely.

 

[Rogazzle]

... It's really very poor science to take one guy saying "It didn't work for me" as proof it can't work for anybody, surely you must understand that.
...

:jackit:

Maybe it's more intelligent to conclude it will never work to any statistically significant degree, especially when compared to pharmaceuticals.

If even there was a measurable beneficial medical result due to consumption of ACV, wouldn't an easier explanation be obvious? Positive mental energy can have beneficial results.

Google "Placebo Effect"

Duh.

 

[Aedan]

You have a point like hoppi, yes, treatments wont work for everyone. Well my brother and I are two people then who strictly took it every day for months. Didn't do anything hairwise.

I think one of the main benefits i got from it is the ability to stomach almost anything now... haha..

 

[DarkDays]

... It's really very poor science to take one guy saying "It didn't work for me" as proof it can't work for anybody, surely you must understand that.
...

:jackit:

Maybe it's more intelligent to conclude it will never work to any statistically significant degree, especially when compared to pharmaceuticals.

If even there was a measurable beneficial medical result due to consumption of ACV, wouldn't an easier explanation be obvious? Positive mental energy can have beneficial results.

Google "Placebo Effect"

Duh.

If the ACV is working it might actually be because of its high potassium value. Minoxidil is a potassium channel opener and TRX2(which is still being experimented on by some forums so no real verdict on it) is rich in highly bio-available potassium.

Regarding Hoppi's inexplicable enthusiasm for leaky guts and stuff I'll just say this: Hoppi, go and do all the stuff you are going to do and record your progress. Currently you aren't learning sh*t, just theorizing and throwing sh*t in the wind hoping someone else becomes your guinea pig. Go be your own guinea pig, go into silent run mode, see what all that stuff does to you, and if it does some miracle come back with the documentation and then you might get someone else to try this out.

I am all for experimental treatments and I am interested in natural remedies, but the way you jump from one thing to another without actually trying some of your stuff for some time(you need to stick to your experiments for months, not minutes like you do currently)

The reason people are becoming ever so annoyed with you is because you are so fickle about your stuff. You don't give anything time. One day it is leaky gut, the next day the leaky gut is not the problem, but flukes, and the day after that it is something else that is causing the flukes that is causing the leaky gut that is causing liver problems that is causing hormone problems that is causing hair loss that is causing bla bla bla. In all seriousness you would be the worst scientist ever as you can't do proper studies of how something might be affecting you.

I know I sound mean and bitchy, but the thing is, I am just tired of this fickleness. You act like you have ADHD so high that you barely function in life, that you can't finish anything because you will always get something new that could be the next big thing. That when you find an awesome girl you already start dating the next, and while you're on the second date with the second girl you are already on OKCupid finding the third girl because you can't give anyone or anything a chance to work out.

The thing is, you will eventually die, and all this "must find next miracle cure"-jumping is only wasting your time in enjoying life. None of this stuff will make you immortal and time is running out each day.

 

[Hoppi]

He stopped taking his meds because he thought he had found "the" answer.....he's OK now but things got a little dicey for a while.

Oh man that sucks ._.

What did he have? CS really should have been capable of killing it but it's dose and quality dependent.

You have a point like hoppi, yes, treatments wont work for everyone. Well my brother and I are two people then who strictly took it every day for months. Didn't do anything hairwise.

I think one of the main benefits i got from it is the ability to stomach almost anything now... haha..

haha that's cool man I do think that ACV stands it's highest chance of working in those who have some kind of "IBS" that accompanied their male pattern baldness, as ACV is mostly good for candida, dysbiosis, fat, stones, and to a lesser extent parasites. It will therefore not really help people if their problems are more firmly genetic, or based around weak kidneys resulting in high numbers of toxins in the blood, or external intake of androgen-increasing foods, or prostate issues, or DHEA, or pollution, or many other things lol.

However I do feel it makes some headway on tackling two of the most common underlying causes for male pattern baldness. However even this is dependent on the individual's lifestyle and diet.

and DarkDays... I'm sorry man but you're not correct. And.. I'm so tempted to sit here and explain why but you're being really quite rude, and I think you'd just chuck it straight back at me. So... I don't think I'll elaborate until you've started being a bit more friendly!

 

[Rogazzle]

He stopped taking his meds because he thought he had found "the" answer.....he's OK now but things got a little dicey for a while.

Oh man that sucks ._.

What did he have? CS really should have been capable of killing it but it's dose and quality dependent.

You have a point like hoppi, yes, treatments wont work for everyone. Well my brother and I are two people then who strictly took it every day for months. Didn't do anything hairwise.

I think one of the main benefits i got from it is the ability to stomach almost anything now... haha..

haha that's cool man I do think that ACV stands it's highest chance of working in those who have some kind of "IBS" that accompanied their male pattern baldness, as ACV is mostly good for candida, dysbiosis, fat, stones, and to a lesser extent parasites. It will therefore not really help people if their problems are more firmly genetic, or based around weak kidneys resulting in high numbers of toxins in the blood, or external intake of androgen-increasing foods, or prostate issues, or DHEA, or pollution, or many other things lol.

However I do feel it makes some headway on tackling two of the most common underlying causes for male pattern baldness. However even this is dependent on the individual's lifestyle and diet.

and DarkDays... I'm sorry man but you're not correct. And.. I'm so tempted to sit here and explain why but you're being really quite rude, and I think you'd just chuck it straight back at me. So... I don't think I'll elaborate until you've started being a bit more friendly!

"I think" "I think" "I think" "I think" "I think" "I think" "I think" "I think"

What you "think" and what you're going to get are two completely different things.

"I do think that ACV stands it's highest chance of working in those who have some kind of "IBS" that accompanied their male pattern baldness, as ACV is mostly good for candida, dysbiosis, fat, stones, and to a lesser extent parasites."

^^^ So he says without a single shred of objective evidence.

Could you explain in scientific terms how you reach your conclusion?

Show your work, case studies and lab results for each of the following:

IBS
male pattern baldness
Candida
Dysbiosis
Fat
Stones
Parasites


When that is done, could you explain why Apple Cider Vinegar's benefits are exclusive compared to other acids like Wine Vinegar, Citric Acid or Lemon Juice? What makes it better than say, Apple Juice? And don't say potassium. They both have f*****g potassium.

Also, could you explain, if a compound was found in Apple Cider Vinegar that purports a medicinal value, why can't it be taken in supplement form?

Rogazzle,

Love making the kooky idiot squirm.

 

[Hoppi]

I believe supplemental malic acid will recreate many of the effects of ACV.

However, I dunno man, if you try to pull things apart and put them down that fast without even giving them breathing space, you'll never learn anything new or explore new possibilities. At the end of the day, our approaches are just very, very different. And, that's ok!

 

[Rogazzle]

I believe supplemental malic acid will recreate many of the effects of ACV.

However, I dunno man, if you try to pull things apart and put them down that fast without even giving them breathing space, you'll never learn anything new or explore new possibilities. At the end of the day, our approaches are just very, very different. And, that's ok!

Yeah. OK.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sophistry

 

[squeegee]

Acetic Acid is a methyl donor..This is maybe why it is working for some people with low methylation...

Br J Dermatol. 2011 Mar 24. doi: 10.1111/j.1365-2133.2011.10335.x. [Epub ahead of print]
Evidence of increased DNA methylation of the androgen receptor gene in occipital hair follicles from men with androgenetic alopecia.
Cobb JE, Wong NC, Yip LW, Martinick J, Bosnich R, Sinclair RD, Craig JM, Saffery R, Harrap SB, Ellis JA.

Department of Physiology, University of Melbourne, Victoria Australia 3010 Developmental Epigenetics, Murdoch Childrens Research Institute, Flemington Road, Parkville, Victoria Australia 3052 Department of Dermatology, St Vincent's Hospital, Victoria Australia 3065 New Hair Clinic, 627 Chapel Street, South Yarra, Victoria Australia 3141 National Hair Institute, 104 Canterbury Road, Middle Park, Victoria Australia 3206 Environmental and Genetic Epidemiology

In order to compare and clarify the underlying hormonal basis, a study was conducted in 12 young women (ages 14-33) and 12 young men (ages 18-30) with Androgenetic Alopecia (Sawaya and Price, 1997). Androgen receptor, type I and type II 5x-reductase, and cytochrome p-450 aromatase, were measured in hair follicles from scalp biopsies of these young subjects. Both young women and young men had higher levels of type I and type II 5x-reductase and androgen receptors in frontal hair follicles compared to occipital hair follicles; however, the levels in women were approximately half the levels in men (Sawaya and Price, 1997). At the same time, young women had much higher levels of cytochrome p-450 aromatase in frontal follicles than men who had minimal aromatase, and women had even higher aromatase levels in occipital follicles. The differences in aromatase, which is capable of converting testosterone to estradiol, are particularly notable. The findings of this study suggest that the milder expression of Androgenetic Alopecia in women may in part be the result of lower levels of 5x-reductase and androgen receptors in frontal follicles of women compared to levels in men; additionally, higher levels of aromatase in women may result in increased local formation of estradiol from testosterone, and less formation of 5x-reductase products such as DHT.



A methyl donor is simply any substance that can transfer a carbon atom attached to three hydrogen atoms (methyl group )[CH3] to another substance. Many processes in the body rely on this methylation, including the metabolism of lipids (fats- this helps Athletes) and DNA. Scientists suspect that when methylation is at normal of DNA this can prevent the expression of genes.

 

[Rogazzle]

^^^^
Even if there was a 1:1,244,769 plausibility that the above has any meaningful consequence to hair loss, methyl group nutrients could always be taken in super-concentrated supplement form (i.e. athletic performance boosters). Vinegar is 96.74% water.

BTW, acetic acid (found in all vinegars, not just apple cider) wreaks havoc on your teeth enamel.

Put a chicken bone into a bowl of vinegar overnight. Then try to take it out.

 

[Rogazzle]

^^^^^

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! Keep it a secret! Don't tip off the researchers at Pfizer!

 

[Rogazzle]

^^^^

Gee Mr. Genius ... with all this freely available data you'd think someone would have thought about this by now -- "connected the dots" -- and brought it (a new drug or supplement) to it's final logical conclusion.

Here's a hint: Anything you believe *you* can think of, *has* *already* *been* thought of already. If it doesn't exist, there's probably a reason why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_design

 

[1750]

^^^^

Gee Mr. Genius ... with all this freely available data you'd think someone would have thought about this by now -- "connected the dots" -- and brought it (a new drug or supplement) to it's final logical conclusion.

Here's a hint: Anything you believe *you* can think of, *has* *already* *been* thought of already. If it doesn't exist, there's probably a reason why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_design

said with tongue firmly planted in cheek so don't take this the wrong way.. as I enjoy your rebuttals..
but you seem so angry Rogazzle... that vagina cream isn't turning you into a c#nt is it?