Among the many problems caused by spammers is the confusion they create with their deceptive tactics. There is a tech writer, Kevin S. Wilson, who has aggressively posted anti-spam messages over the past few years. His messages are often laced with threats of legal action.
I found situations that appear to parallel the current HairLossTalk.com sitaution exactly. Some spammer will spoof an address and then Kevin Wilson doesn't believe the protests of a business person that they have been spoofed. Having read quite a few of Kevin W's posts, it seems his motivation is good, but he gets carried away and doesn't consider the possibility that, at least sometimes, he ends-up playing right into the hands of spammers.
I don't know for a fact that this is the same "Kevin S. Wilson" who wrote the EMail posted earlier in this thread, but the tone is the same in many of the posts I found.
In his more recent posts, I noticed that Kevin S. Wilson has taken to actually suing people he believes to be spammers. He sues them in Idaho, they don't show up to court because they live God-knows-where, and he wins a judgement by default. I hope he doesn't make too many premature judgments about who the spammers are, versus who the victims are.
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NOTE FROM HAIRLOSSTALK ADMINISTRATION: THE INFORMATION QUOTED ABOVE BY THE USER "HAIRNOW" WAS APPARENTLY TAKEN FROM A PUBLIC WEBISTE KEVIN POSTS ON HIMSELF, SO THIS IS NOT PRIVATE INFORMATION. HE HIMSELF PUT "A TECH WRITER SOMEWHERE IN IDAHO" AND HIS EMAIL ADDRESS APPEARS FOR THE WORLD TO SEE, BY HIS OWN DECISION.
I found situations that appear to parallel the current HairLossTalk.com sitaution exactly. Some spammer will spoof an address and then Kevin Wilson doesn't believe the protests of a business person that they have been spoofed. Having read quite a few of Kevin W's posts, it seems his motivation is good, but he gets carried away and doesn't consider the possibility that, at least sometimes, he ends-up playing right into the hands of spammers.
I don't know for a fact that this is the same "Kevin S. Wilson" who wrote the EMail posted earlier in this thread, but the tone is the same in many of the posts I found.
In his more recent posts, I noticed that Kevin S. Wilson has taken to actually suing people he believes to be spammers. He sues them in Idaho, they don't show up to court because they live God-knows-where, and he wins a judgement by default. I hope he doesn't make too many premature judgments about who the spammers are, versus who the victims are.
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NOTE FROM HAIRLOSSTALK ADMINISTRATION: THE INFORMATION QUOTED ABOVE BY THE USER "HAIRNOW" WAS APPARENTLY TAKEN FROM A PUBLIC WEBISTE KEVIN POSTS ON HIMSELF, SO THIS IS NOT PRIVATE INFORMATION. HE HIMSELF PUT "A TECH WRITER SOMEWHERE IN IDAHO" AND HIS EMAIL ADDRESS APPEARS FOR THE WORLD TO SEE, BY HIS OWN DECISION.
A
Administrator
Guest
You know, it figures we'd have to deal with this. Getting mixed up with people who like to sue innocent people just to try and get money. Well I don't know if the other guys were innocent but we didn't do this. Geez.
I sent Kevin some documentation to prove that our server got hacked and that even Spamcop.net acknowledges that we are the victim of a joe-job. I have a contact at Spamcop who will vouch for me in writing as well. I don't think it would be very useful time spent for him to pursue this with us but I guess it will be up to him.
I have no problem flying to Idaho though. I have family up there and would be glad to see the mountains. I definitely would not be a no show. I have nothing to hide. I didn't do this. Period. :x
The part that sucks the most about this is that the good guys end up being the ones who get attacked by other well meaning people like Kevin. I understand paranoia and being accusatory. I hope that the supporting documentation I sent him will convince him that we didn't do it, and can show overwhelming evidence to support that.
Admin
I sent Kevin some documentation to prove that our server got hacked and that even Spamcop.net acknowledges that we are the victim of a joe-job. I have a contact at Spamcop who will vouch for me in writing as well. I don't think it would be very useful time spent for him to pursue this with us but I guess it will be up to him.
I have no problem flying to Idaho though. I have family up there and would be glad to see the mountains. I definitely would not be a no show. I have nothing to hide. I didn't do this. Period. :x
The part that sucks the most about this is that the good guys end up being the ones who get attacked by other well meaning people like Kevin. I understand paranoia and being accusatory. I hope that the supporting documentation I sent him will convince him that we didn't do it, and can show overwhelming evidence to support that.
Admin
A
Administrator
Guest
The most recent comments sent to us from Kevin Wilson:
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin S. Wilson
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:15 PM
To: news@hairlosstalk.com
Subject: RE: Subject: Buy Hair Loss Products!
You post my e-mail on your web site and still expect me to listen to you, believe you, and treat you civilly? Amazing.
f*** you, a**h**. You've got a lot to learn about acceptable behavior on the 'Net. I hope your ISP pulls the plug on your site.
Maybe then you'll learn some manners.
Now f*** off, spammer.
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Maybe its time we report Mr. Wilson to his ISP for abusive, threatening, vulgar emails. See how he likes a taste of his own medicine.
Admin
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin S. Wilson
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:15 PM
To: news@hairlosstalk.com
Subject: RE: Subject: Buy Hair Loss Products!
You post my e-mail on your web site and still expect me to listen to you, believe you, and treat you civilly? Amazing.
f*** you, a**h**. You've got a lot to learn about acceptable behavior on the 'Net. I hope your ISP pulls the plug on your site.
Maybe then you'll learn some manners.
Now f*** off, spammer.
--------
Maybe its time we report Mr. Wilson to his ISP for abusive, threatening, vulgar emails. See how he likes a taste of his own medicine.
Admin
G
Guest
Guest
sh*t!
Admin, I am sorry you live in such a Litigious country!!
If there is anything posters can do to help, just ask.
this is f*****g ridiculous!
Ty
Admin, I am sorry you live in such a Litigious country!!
If there is anything posters can do to help, just ask.
this is f*****g ridiculous!
Ty
Dont people have lives?i mean who has the time to hack into sh*t and spam this website...i mean thats some very lonely guy trying to make this site look bad.I dont get it......if procerin is the ones doing it and there product is sh*t...then they cant do anything about it...cause they made a false product...dont be mad HairLossTalk.com did an article about your product being a crock of shiot then come here and try to start sh*t with HairLossTalk.com for you not being able to steal money from constumers anymore.
The Gardener
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 25
Admin,
I find it hard to believe that this Kevin S Wilson would be able to win any sort of a court judgement for spamming if he can't prove that the spam came from the person he is threatening.
Even though the spam is coming from your domain, it is common knowledge that a spammer can put any email address or domain he wants to in the "From" line of a spam email message. Email hijacking is very common nowadays, you can do it yourself if you wanted to. That's right, right now, I could send an email message to any of you, and with a few tweaks to my email settings could format the message so that "admin@hairlosstalk.com" is the sending address that appears. It is common knowledge that this is possible, not rocket science.
I think this Kevin Wilson fellow should be allowed to stew in his own juices. If he wants to obtain cash from this particular spammer, let him follow the IP trail and figure out who it is. If he wants to collect money for you in a spamming lawsuit, he would have to first prove that the spam came from you... and an HairLossTalk.com address in the from line is not sufficient. He would have to show a definitive electronic path showing that the spam came from an ISP and account registered in your name.
If he wants his money, let him track down this spammer for you. It's not you... and frankly, I would just tell him as much. Tell him that your address is being used by a third party, and you have nothing to do with it.
Gard
I find it hard to believe that this Kevin S Wilson would be able to win any sort of a court judgement for spamming if he can't prove that the spam came from the person he is threatening.
Even though the spam is coming from your domain, it is common knowledge that a spammer can put any email address or domain he wants to in the "From" line of a spam email message. Email hijacking is very common nowadays, you can do it yourself if you wanted to. That's right, right now, I could send an email message to any of you, and with a few tweaks to my email settings could format the message so that "admin@hairlosstalk.com" is the sending address that appears. It is common knowledge that this is possible, not rocket science.
I think this Kevin Wilson fellow should be allowed to stew in his own juices. If he wants to obtain cash from this particular spammer, let him follow the IP trail and figure out who it is. If he wants to collect money for you in a spamming lawsuit, he would have to first prove that the spam came from you... and an HairLossTalk.com address in the from line is not sufficient. He would have to show a definitive electronic path showing that the spam came from an ISP and account registered in your name.
If he wants his money, let him track down this spammer for you. It's not you... and frankly, I would just tell him as much. Tell him that your address is being used by a third party, and you have nothing to do with it.
Gard
The Gardener
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 25
Additionally, while not up to speed on the particular exploits of Kevin S Wilson, I know a thing or two about corporate and contract law including issues of ecommerce.
Provided you aren't bullshitting us all and really are spamming people (which I know is not the fact), if he should sue you, you should be able to find an attorney who will represent you pro bono on this case. This is because after Kevin Wilson sues you, unsucessfully, as he will not be able to prove that you aren't doing the spamming because you AREN'T, it is common legal courtesy to countersue him back. In the countersuit, you, and your lawyer, will recoup money for your time and expenses, provided you are willing to take some time out of your day ot make a few court appearances. If your attorney is really keen, he should be able to bilk out of this fellow some punitive damages for either pursuing a frivilous lawsuit, or possibly some sort of defamation angle on it if he makes any kind of public statement labeling you or your business as a spammer.
Provided you aren't bullshitting us all and really are spamming people (which I know is not the fact), if he should sue you, you should be able to find an attorney who will represent you pro bono on this case. This is because after Kevin Wilson sues you, unsucessfully, as he will not be able to prove that you aren't doing the spamming because you AREN'T, it is common legal courtesy to countersue him back. In the countersuit, you, and your lawyer, will recoup money for your time and expenses, provided you are willing to take some time out of your day ot make a few court appearances. If your attorney is really keen, he should be able to bilk out of this fellow some punitive damages for either pursuing a frivilous lawsuit, or possibly some sort of defamation angle on it if he makes any kind of public statement labeling you or your business as a spammer.
A
Administrator
Guest
Gardener, its good to have folks like you around. Thank you for the input. This is definitely what we will do if this ever goes further than an email from Mr. Wilson.
Admin.
Admin.
A
Administrator
Guest
Kevin's Latest comments sent to us, and our reply to it:
From: Kevin S. Wilson
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:33 AM
To: news@hairlosstalk.com
Subject: RE: Subject: Buy Hair Loss Products!
> You will be reported to your ISP for harassing emails.
If they stop laughing long enough, putz, be sure to let me know what they have to say.
Meanwhile, shall we see what Interland thinks about you publishing private e-mail on your site? Seems to me that doing so violates section CI of Interland's acceptable use policy.
-----Reply Reply Reply-----
From: HairlossTalk News [mailto:news@hairlosstalk.com]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:20 AM
To: Kevin Wilson
Subject: RE: Subject: Buy Hair Loss Products!
I hope you sleep well at night knowing that you attack people who haven't even done anything wrong. I can't vouch for the others you've attacked with your vulgar, harassing, threatening emails, but I know for myself, in my heart that we've done nothing wrong.
It cracks me up that you're able to act like an insane vulgar maniac... and you think that is ethically "okay"... but to show others what you've said is HORRIBLY WRONG.
Nice moral double standard you got there. It must be fun being you. Able to ignore your own vomit but point at everyone else's.
If you don't want your messages posted on our forums, don’t email the owner of the site cussing them out, giving them what could be construed as death threats ("Drop Dead"), and implying that you're going to destory their business and bring down their site singlehandedly.
As for interland? Do whatever you want. It won't amount to a hill of beans.
We're already choosing to leave Interland and are going onto a new server that a friend of mine owns. Once we're there, you can complain to him all you want. He will ignore you. He knows what went down here, from the Joe Job all the way to your out of control vulgar threatening emails.
Buy a mirror. It would be a good investment for you.
Over and Out.
From: Kevin S. Wilson
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 7:33 AM
To: news@hairlosstalk.com
Subject: RE: Subject: Buy Hair Loss Products!
> You will be reported to your ISP for harassing emails.
If they stop laughing long enough, putz, be sure to let me know what they have to say.
Meanwhile, shall we see what Interland thinks about you publishing private e-mail on your site? Seems to me that doing so violates section CI of Interland's acceptable use policy.
-----Reply Reply Reply-----
From: HairlossTalk News [mailto:news@hairlosstalk.com]
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 11:20 AM
To: Kevin Wilson
Subject: RE: Subject: Buy Hair Loss Products!
I hope you sleep well at night knowing that you attack people who haven't even done anything wrong. I can't vouch for the others you've attacked with your vulgar, harassing, threatening emails, but I know for myself, in my heart that we've done nothing wrong.
It cracks me up that you're able to act like an insane vulgar maniac... and you think that is ethically "okay"... but to show others what you've said is HORRIBLY WRONG.
Nice moral double standard you got there. It must be fun being you. Able to ignore your own vomit but point at everyone else's.
If you don't want your messages posted on our forums, don’t email the owner of the site cussing them out, giving them what could be construed as death threats ("Drop Dead"), and implying that you're going to destory their business and bring down their site singlehandedly.
As for interland? Do whatever you want. It won't amount to a hill of beans.
We're already choosing to leave Interland and are going onto a new server that a friend of mine owns. Once we're there, you can complain to him all you want. He will ignore you. He knows what went down here, from the Joe Job all the way to your out of control vulgar threatening emails.
Buy a mirror. It would be a good investment for you.
Over and Out.
Axon
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 9
Pretty much my thoughts the whole time, the man carries himself with a total lack of accountability.
I've had my share of death threats on this forum and others, and I know how comical it can be when a person refuses to acknowledge that they were the one who played the role of initial agressor, even in lieu of documented proof.
I've had my share of death threats on this forum and others, and I know how comical it can be when a person refuses to acknowledge that they were the one who played the role of initial agressor, even in lieu of documented proof.
Well said, HairLossTalk.com!
I found the info on this character by searching google groups, which is always a good place to start. Inhabitants of the ugly underbelly of the net seem to feel very at home posting there. :lol: Often enough info can be found in groups to direct searches to state records, whois and whatever to find beaucoup dirt on these types.
If this guy doesn't stop smearing you and threatening you, maybe you should file a small claims suit against him in San Diego county. Let him pop for an airfare or face a default judgment against him.
Hairnow
I found the info on this character by searching google groups, which is always a good place to start. Inhabitants of the ugly underbelly of the net seem to feel very at home posting there. :lol: Often enough info can be found in groups to direct searches to state records, whois and whatever to find beaucoup dirt on these types.
If this guy doesn't stop smearing you and threatening you, maybe you should file a small claims suit against him in San Diego county. Let him pop for an airfare or face a default judgment against him.
Hairnow
combmehair
New Member
- Reaction score
- 0
I like to connect a face to vile messages. So here he is, the man himself, Kevin S. Wilson:
HairlossTalk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 6
Wow, is that really him? Is he showing us his new garbage can?
HairLossTalk.com
HairLossTalk.com
HairlossTalk
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 6
I almost feel like he should be saying "Daaaa Bearssss".
(only longtime SNL fans will get that)
HairLossTalk.com
(only longtime SNL fans will get that)
HairLossTalk.com
