Don't Be Delusional, There Won't Be Anything Better For The Next 30 Years. Deal With It.

How long until anything better (treatment, cure...) comes?


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d3nt3dsh0v3l

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Not really a good comparison though. 50% of people are walking around young. Doesn't mean we are going to cure aging; treatments can help treat it aka slow it down, but doesn't mean there will be a cure. Hair loss is complex is sh*t. Don't think we will ever truly understand it even if we do discover a very useful treatment.

It is a good comparison though. As far as aging, that's why I mentioned "men of age" meaning men old enough to be eligible for balding. I was also saying 20-50% because it depends on where you live. In some placed balding is more common than not. In my university, there are many very old professors with full, white heads of hair and there are professors who are bald.

The point is, you don't have to look very far to find someone who already naturally has what you want. They are the control group, you see.

Hair loss is indeed complex, at least more complex than people initially expected. But it is far less complex than colonizing mars or regenerating other organs or solving the protein folding problem or any number of high value problems that we are chunking away at.

I know it seems like we will never figure it out but please, please keep in mind that the idea of having a personal computer seemed ridiculous only a few decades ago. To say that we will never solve the problem, ever, is definitely a stretch.

Here is some consolation: researchers interested in organ regeneration are going to solve hair loss first. Why? Because the follicle is a very small organ so it is much easier to start with a simple system than to dive right into trying to culture a heart or a liver. And also, luckily for us, the hair follicle regenerates itself cyclically - this means at least to an extent, we can watch the organ be "rebuilt" over and over, which gives us clues as to what cellular signaling or other conditions are required to initiate and control the growth and development of the system. And to top it off, everyone and their mother knows that solving this problem or explaining its cause will lead to fame and fortune galore.

I personally think that we will see a cure in our lifetime, but we can all debate that. But I think saying we will never get it is too much, and it is not because I am thinking wishfully; it's really not that bad of a science problem. The field also may seem screwy because that's how technology is. Just as with the development of finasteride, the treatment will probably be out before the mechanism is fully revealed because people are eager to make products, make money and move on. The bronze age was not heralded by advances in our understanding of metallurgy. People tried stuff and it worked, so they just kept using whatever worked.

Hang in there :]
 
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lemoncloak

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I agree. Medicine isn't a science per se.
But you can't be a good doctor without a good knowledge of biochemistry and biology.
And some doctors are into research and those are definitely scientists.
Don't u agree?
It depends on the case but for the most part I agree
 

Spanishboy97

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I don't believe replicel or shiseido will make it but that's just a feelling.I believe Tsuji is the only who can make it but if he doesn't the only thing that will solve the problem is gene editing in 20+ years.
NW3.
Oh sorry...I forgot our savior- Brotzu lotion.:D
What are your doubts on replicel/shiseido?
 

Michel F. II

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I don't believe replicel or shiseido will make it but that's just a feelling.I believe Tsuji is the only who can make it but if he doesn't the only thing that will solve the problem is gene editing in 20+ years.
NW3.
Oh sorry...I forgot our savior- Brotzu lotion.:D
Hahaha...
Brotzu the savior.
Hahaha...

In reference to Replicel/Shiseido, do you believe that their treatment is incapable of halting hairloss completely?
How come?

As for hair regeneration, Tsuji ain't the only player. Sure, he's miles ahead from anybody else, but he is not the only one who's trying to regenerate hair follicles.
Gene editing for hair loss, in my opinion, is completely out of the picture.
We haven't yet found the defective genes.
Oh, well, we don't even know the whole pathophysiology behind Androgenetic Alopecia.
That's why stem cell treatments and hair regeneration are put forward and are likelier to be proven effective against hair loss.
 

Feelsbadman.jpg

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Shiseido (4th largest cosmetic company in the world, not some scrappy little bio-tech startup) is the company that is bringing it to market, not Replicel. At least initially. Since you are "doing a doctorate in bio-tech", you should be familiar with the Japanese laws that allow drugs and treatments to be brought to market without a phase III trial as long as safety and efficacy have been proven in/during the phase II trial. Replicel has already proven safety (and efficacy to a significant extent). Shiseido started their Phase II last year and as long as they can replicate Replicel's results (and hopefully improve), they are on track to bring it to market Q3 2018. So about 1 year from now.

These are facts. Shiseido, world's 4th largest cosmetic company, is doing the phase II trial. All they have to do is repeat what replicel has already done w/ phase I and they will be able to bring it to market 2nd half of 2018. They don't have to do a phase III trial because of the laws in Japan.

For the record, OP failed to respond to this on two separate occasions. We are going on like 6 pages since the first quote. He must be too busy "doing his doctorate" to bother with facts....
 

lemoncloak

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Biology and chemistry are sciences. Genetics is a branch of the life sciences being studied to perhaps one day solve Longevity. Some ppl think gene therapy and gene replacement whenever geneticists talk about disease , which isnt alwys the case. Angela Christiano for instance studies the genetics of hair loss and experiments with all of genetically engineered mice as well as drugs she thinks might work to re-grow hair.

Of course the purest of scientific disciplines is physics and the study of matt
Ok.. sure, but I was talking about medicine anyway.
Also, guess who's on a physics degree. Up top!

Gene editing for hair loss, in my opinion, is completely out of the picture.
We haven't yet found the defective genes.
Oh, well, we don't even know the whole pathophysiology behind Androgenetic Alopecia.
I think I'm about to become a pain in the *** for saying this again and again in this forum but all we need to do is knock out the androgen receptor gene in the follicles. It's either the trigger or a bottleneck, baldness stops 100% and no one cares about the genes downstream. Knock the whole gene out, disrupt the promoter, add more CAGs in exon1 (as in Armando's recent thread), many ways to do it. You can upregulate beta estrogen receptors too I guess, among other things, but it's probably an unnecessary risk.
The reason gene editing won't happen soon is because of regulations, delivery and possible off-targets by CRISPR. Personally I think studying Androgenetic Alopecia genes downstream of AR is redundant at this point, at least for application on Androgenetic Alopecia.
 

Xander94

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Lol
I didn't ask for your opinion about Bimmler.
I would like to know what you think about the possibility of having anything efficient come out within the next 5 years.
Btw, my being a medical professional doesn't seem to mean anything in here, as other posters with no scientific background are considered experts, somehow.
Lol
As for Tsuji, I don't know much. If they manage to preserve epithelial stem cells' inductivity and amplify them in great numbers, it would be a game changer, for sure.
They seem pretty confident and that's a good thing.
But I hardly see the Tsuji-ian treatment becoming available en masse before 2025.
That's 8 years and you'll be in your forties (I'll be in my thirties).
If Replicel's deed, indeed, halts hair loss, that would be also a game changer for low nws and younger people who have the defective gene(s) running in their families.
My suggestion is we be patient and wait for the Shiseido trial's results. They are supposed to be released next year.
I don't remember.
R u a low Norwood or completely bald?

(Τ' ότι επικοινωνούμε στα αγγλικά με πεθαίνει.)
Το shiseido θα μας σωσει λογικα
 

lemoncloak

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For prevention, yes. For reversal, maybe not.
You think Tsuji or others are studying stem cells from the ground up? Or just on protein level? Maybe I don't know. Only if it's for organ regeneration
BTW I found a 4 year old article on androgen metabolism in follicles by Osaka university (the authors will be in the Congress this year) it's kinda basic stuff you may already know and just 4 pages but if u want to read it..
 

InBeforeTheCure

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You think Tsuji or others are studying stem cells from the ground up? Or just on protein level? Maybe I don't know. Only if it's for organ regeneration

What?

BTW I found a 4 year old article on androgen metabolism in follicles by Osaka university (the authors will be in the Congress this year) it's kinda basic stuff you may already know and just 4 pages but if u want to read it..

Sure, go ahead and post it.
 

lemoncloak

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What?



Sure, go ahead and post it.
Sorry let me clarify. I don't see reversal happening unless it's with organ regeneration. I don't know whether they study genes in stem cells (from the ground up) for organ regen research or if they just study the molecules in those cells. And tbh why would you want to study the mechanism of a disease when your aim is to reproduce healthy stem cells and you're circumventing the whole balding process anyway.

Edit: forgot there's follica's method too but we'll see if their reversal is cosmetically significant

There you go
https://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=androgen actions on the human hair follicle&source=web&cd=4&ved=0ahUKEwjIouy75ovVAhVJCcAKHUpsBUkQFggvMAM&url=http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/exd.12024/pdf&usg=AFQjCNG-xRGDoIN_1XIR856t1ikVLqxtWA
 
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Michel F. II

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Ok.. sure, but I was talking about medicine anyway.
Also, guess who's on a physics degree. Up top!


I think I'm about to become a pain in the *** for saying this again and again in this forum but all we need to do is knock out the androgen receptor gene in the follicles. It's either the trigger or a bottleneck, baldness stops 100% and no one cares about the genes downstream. Knock the whole gene out, disrupt the promoter, add more CAGs in exon1 (as in Armando's recent thread), many ways to do it. You can upregulate beta estrogen receptors too I guess, among other things, but it's probably an unnecessary risk.
The reason gene editing won't happen soon is because of regulations, delivery and possible off-targets by CRISPR. Personally I think studying Androgenetic Alopecia genes downstream of AR is redundant at this point, at least for application on Androgenetic Alopecia.
A) Knocking the receptor out would be beneficial for nw1-2. What about bigger nws?
B) Are you familiar with CRISPR technology?
C) If so, how do you think it could be feasible to knock the gene out of every single follicle cell?
I'd be surprised if you had an idea!
 

Michel F. II

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Eimai nw1.5 logika tha MOU to kanei maintain I shiseido
Καλά, ρε. Για Nw1.5 ξημεροβραδιάζεσαι εδώ μέσα;
Χεχε
Μπορεί.
Κάτσε να δούμε.
Επιπλέον, θα πας Ιαπωνία διότι στην Δανία θα αργήσει να φτάσει η θεραπεία;
 

lemoncloak

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A) Knocking the receptor out would be beneficial for nw1-2. What about bigger nws?
B) Are you familiar with CRISPR technology?
C) If so, how do you think it could be feasible to knock the gene out of every single follicle cell?
I'd be surprised if you had an idea!
A. Yes. I can't see how any sort of gene therapy can bring cells back from the dead for that matter. We're talking about prevention here, either for your kids or for you if you're lucky to have had a Tsuji style transplant and want to maintain. Not gonna happen soon
B. As familiar as an enthusiast with high school level knowledge of genetic engineering and an internet connection can be. Not very much.
C. tl;Dr I don't have an idea. Don't think anyone has an idea.
Delivery is an issue in general with CRISPR.. Some areas (like lungs) are easier to treat than others. Afaik treatment of the cells is done in vitro and then delivered for the most part. Not very practical with follicles. I suppose injection is the way, but only if it doesn't go systemic too hard which is a big if. Especially with the circulatory system being all over there. Of course there may be ways to ensure that but that's beyond me. The good thing is you don't care if you target other parts of the scalp, it's probably better off without androgens, no sebum, no acne.. the other problem is off target mutations. I'm guessing that means the sequence you sent in was present in other parts of the genome and cas9 cut somewhere where it shouldn't have,but biology is complex so it's probably more complicated than that

Basically Shiseido and Tsuji all the way
 
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Xander94

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Καλά, ρε. Για Nw1.5 ξημεροβραδιάζεσαι εδώ μέσα;
Χεχε
Μπορεί.
Κάτσε να δούμε.
Επιπλέον, θα πας Ιαπωνία διότι στην Δανία θα αργήσει να φτάσει η θεραπεία;
Ειμαι πολυ diffuse σε ολο το NW6 area.

Ειμαι κολλημενος με φινας για την ωρα ελπιζω να βγει shiseido και να τελιωσει ο εφιαλτης αν το βγαλουν του χρονου θα παω κατευθειαν ναι xD

O brotzu και εγω νομιζω μαλακιες ειναι
 

Michel F. II

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Ειμαι πολυ diffuse σε ολο το NW6 area.

Ειμαι κολλημενος με φινας για την ωρα ελπιζω να βγει shiseido και να τελιωσει ο εφιαλτης αν το βγαλουν του χρονου θα παω κατευθειαν ναι xD

O brotzu και εγω νομιζω μαλακιες ειναι
Μαλακίες, μαλακίες, αλλά πριν μερικούς μήνες μου επιτέθηκες που έλεγα ότι είναι μουφέξ το φιδέλαιο του Βρότσου.
Τεσπα, μακάρι να βρεις την υγειά σου με τις ενέσεις των Γιαπωνέζων.
 

Xander94

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Μαλακίες, μαλακίες, αλλά πριν μερικούς μήνες μου επιτέθηκες που έλεγα ότι είναι μουφέξ το φιδέλαιο του Βρότσου.
Τεσπα, μακάρι να βρεις την υγειά σου με τις ενέσεις των Γιαπωνέζων.
ε επρεπε να την ειχα μυριστει τη μαλακια.

Δε πιστευεις στα stem cells των Ιαπωνων?
 
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