Dutasteride Is Not That More Effective Than Finasteride

[shidoin]

Testosterone causes the androgen receptor to change shape and enter the nucleus for androgenic gene expression just the same as DHT. If you have hairloss in your genes you will start balding once the gene expression occurs.

For some people with less aggressive forms of hairloss only DHT is strong enough to cause enough AR gene expression to trigger balding whereas in other with more aggressive hairloss Testosterone can as well.

You are honestly on of the most ignorant and arrogant members on this forum. Terrible combo

Honestly your a clueless kid, that thinks you know what's up! You are not onto a cure you are not a scientist. Just a punk that reads forums because 5 ars hasn't worked for you. I can assure you everything you are trying and suggest has been done

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Honestly your a clueless kid, that thinks you know what's up! You are not onto a cure you are not a scientist. Just a punk that reads forums because 5 ars hasn't worked for you. I can assure you everything you are trying and suggest has been done

Honestly seems like you agree with me now. Looks like I got a bit of science into your thick head. You still have a very weak understanding of biology and science in general, maybe instead of spending all your free time posting here you can take a few university biology courses.

 

[shidoin]

Honestly seems like you agree with me now. Looks like I got a bit of science into your thick head. You still have a very weak understanding of biology and science in general, maybe instead of spending all your free time posting here you can take a few university biology courses.

You didn't get into my head! You and your dhtcel want to become trannies! Again you have NOTHING to offer anyone! Every few years we hear about a cure that will be available in 5 years pffft. Not likely.. and your not on the path to find that cure! But if you were to I'd bow down and apologize

 

[DHTcel]

You didn't get into my head! You and your dhtcel want to become trannies! Again you have NOTHING to offer anyone! Every few years we hear about a cure that will be available in 5 years pffft. Not likely.. and your not on the path to find that cure! But if you were to I'd bow down and apologize

testosterone is an androgen and dht is an androgen. Androgens is what cause hair loss, thats why its called ANDROGENetic alopecia, not DHTalopecia. Also only 70% of DHT is formed from Testosterone, the other 30% can be made from DHEA and DHEA-S which are produced from.... yep TESTOSTERONE. @Ikarus @shidoin

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

You didn't get into my head! You and your dhtcel want to become trannies! Again you have NOTHING to offer anyone! Every few years we hear about a cure that will be available in 5 years pffft. Not likely.. and your not on the path to find that cure! But if you were to I'd bow down and apologize

@Obsessive lol

 

[shidoin]

stuff

You disliking again kid? You don't even have hair loss! Wash the grease out of your hair!

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Testosterone can be good or bad for hair. It depends on which enzymes are present in follicle. If you have alot of aromatase, then most will convert to estrogen which will benefit your hair.

For ppl whom 5AR inhibitors don't work, there may be very little aromatase enzyme present in hair folicle.

 

[DHTcel]

Testosterone can be good or bad for hair. It depends on which enzymes are present in follicle. If you have alot of aromatase, then most will convert to estrogen which will benefit your hair.

For ppl whom 5AR inhibitors don't work, there may be very little aromatase enzyme present in hair folicle.

thats not true they just have more androgen receptors in their hair follicles.

 

[shidoin]

thats not true they just have more androgen receptors in their hair follicles.

Nope just more sensitive to androgens! Low testosterone can also cause hair loss. You need to rethink your approach

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

thats not true they just have more androgen receptors in their hair follicles.

Show me a study that proves it.


From https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/767628/

However, most women with FPHL have no other signs or symptoms of hyperandrogenism and have normal androgen levels, indicating that our understanding of the pathogenesis of the disorder remains incomplete. The age-related increase in FPHL and the highest rates in postmenopausal women may suggest a protective role of the estrogen. Supporting this theory, Sawaya and Price conducted a study in 12 young women and 12 young men (ages from 14 to 33) suffering from Androgenetic Alopecia or FPHL [15]. Scalp biopsies were taken and androgens, expression of androgen receptor, type I and type II 5-reductase, and cytochrome p-450 aromatase enzyme genes were measured in hair follicles. Both young women and young men had higher levels of type I and type II 5-reductase and androgen receptors in frontal hair follicles compared to occipital hair follicles explaining probably the patterned hair loss. However, the levels in women were approximately half the levels in men [15]. The findings of this study suggest that the milder expression of FPHL may in part be the result of lower levels of 5-reductase and androgen receptors in frontal follicles of women compared to levels in men. Additionally, young women had much higher levels of cytochrome p-450 aromatase, enzyme capable of converting testosterone to estradiol, in frontal and occipital follicles than men. Those notable increased aromatase levels seem to play a protective role in the development of hair loss in women [15]. Furthermore, supporting the androgen-dependent etiopathogenesis, low levels of sex hormone-binding protein (SHBG), glycoprotein that binds to androgens, inhibiting thereby their activities, have been linked to diffuse hair loss [16]. Another part of FPHL and Androgenetic Alopecia pathogenesis is the gradual shortening of the growth phase of hair follicles. Over the successive hair cycles, the duration of anagen phase shortens from a normal duration of a few years to only weeks to months [2].

Enzyme expression is everything and determines the pattern. High aromatase is what preserves hair lines. If dutasteride is not working for you, then chances are you don't have good aromatase expression. This probably changes with time, i.e. the longer you are on dutasteride, the more aromatase is produced in the follicles. This is speculation but it would explain why it can take years to see full results on finasteride and dutasteride and not just a few hair cycles.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Nope just more sensitive to androgens! Low testosterone can also cause hair loss. You need to rethink your approach

High androgenic stimulation is what is needed to "sensitize follicles to androgens". DHT is needed (or supraphysiological levels of T could do it with an aromatase inhibitor maybe) to initiate the process, once underway though, testosterone can continue the job in the absence of estrogen.

Even the donor region can be "sensitized" to androgens. This was done in vitro with supraphysiological levels of DHT exposure.

The pseudohermaphodites from the Dominican Republic never lose hair despite having higher T levels due to their follicles having never been stimulated by DHT.

 

[DHTcel]

Low testosterone can also cause hair loss.

testosterone is an androgen...

 

[shidoin]

testosterone is an androgen...

Bravo! Testosterone is an androgen, but the conversion of testosterone to Dht has been proven to be one of the reasons for hairloss. If you block all Male androgens as you want to do you turn into a b**ch

 

[DHTcel]

Bravo! Testosterone is an androgen, but the conversion of testosterone to Dht has been proven to be one of the reasons for hairloss. If you block all Male androgens as you want to do you turn into a b**ch

both testosterone and DHT bind to the androgen receptor. There are androgen receptors in hair follicles. Both can affect androgenic gene expression and cause hair loss if you have VERY aggressive balding. For most, reducing your total androgen levels by 20% with dutasteride or 15% with finasteride will stop balding. But that is not the case for me or other people on this website who need their androgen levels reduced further.

 

[shidoin]

both testosterone and DHT bind to the androgen receptor. There are androgen receptors in hair follicles. Both can affect androgenic gene expression and cause hair loss if you have VERY aggressive balding. For most, reducing your total androgen levels by 20% with dutasteride or 15% with finasteride will stop balding. But that is not the case for me or other people on this website who need their androgen levels reduced further.

Both can bind to the androgen receptor but the main culprit is DHT nothing you or your buddy Hemingway have discovered anything new. This debate has been going on for years. And you son thinking that a few months is enough time for a 5 ar to work is incorrect and laughable. Each hair on your head is in a different phase. You need to give things time. It may take a year. I've talked to others that haven't seen results until 1.5 years

 

[DHTcel]

Both can bind to the androgen receptor but the main culprit is DHT nothing you or your buddy Hemingway have discovered anything new. This debate has been going on for years. And you son thinking that a few months is enough time for a 5 ar to work is incorrect and laughable. Each hair on your head is in a different phase. You need to give things time. It may take a year. I've talked to others that haven't seen results until 1.5 years

you need an IQ test, seriously, literally less than 10% of test is converted to DHT, there is 10-20x more testosterone in your body. Jesus Christ.

 

[shidoin]

you need an IQ test, seriously, literally less than 10% of test is converted to DHT, there is 10-20x more testosterone in your body. Jesus Christ.

Only around 10% of testosterone is in the scalp. Get an American education! Not that 3rd world bullshit

 

[DHTcel]

Only around 10% of testosterone is in the scalp. Get an American education! Not that 3rd world bullshit

DHT is 1/20 the concentration of T, stop with the racist BS

 

[shidoin]

DHT is 1/20 the concentration of T, stop with the racist BS

Dude your math that you keep posting means nothing in the real world. What are you going to do when you really have hair loss? Your a f'ing mess

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

both testosterone and DHT bind to the androgen receptor. There are androgen receptors in hair follicles. Both can affect androgenic gene expression and cause hair loss if you have VERY aggressive balding. For most, reducing your total androgen levels by 20% with dutasteride or 15% with finasteride will stop balding. But that is not the case for me or other people on this website who need their androgen levels reduced further.

Saying Dutasteride lowers your androgen levels by 20% is misleading. 5 AR inhibitors drasticly reduce androgenic stimulation. Your hormone profile becomes less androgenic and more anabolic. A purely anabolic hormone will not cause hair loss. There are actually two types of androgen receptors. DHT is the most androgenic androgen. Testosterone has a 1:1 anabolic androgenic ratio while DHT is about 5:1 in favor of androgenic if I remember correctly.

So say some one has, before dutasteride, 1000 ng/dl for T and 100 ng/dl for DHT. If we take DHT for having 5 times the androgenic stimulation as T, that gives and Androgenic value of 1500 and an Anabolic value 1020. After taking dutasteride for several months they get a 90% decrease ind DHT and a 20% increase in T. Now they 1200 ng/dl T and 10 ng/dl DHT with an Androgenic value of 1250 and an Anabolic value of 1202.

So dutasteride reduces androgenic stimulation by about 17% but increases anabolic stimulation by roughly the same amount. This is similar to your excercise in you did in your OP but you forgot to include the T increase with dutasteride. Also, this is not accurate because it's taking a systematic look at these values which is irrelevant when we are actually concerned with peripheral tissue levels.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone

Serum DHT levels are about 10% of those of testosterone, but levels in the prostate gland are 5- to 10-fold higher than those of testosterone due to a more than 90% conversion of testosterone into DHT by locally expressed 5α-reductase.[7] For this reason, and in addition to the fact that DHT is much more potent as an AR agonist than is testosterone,[45] DHT is considered to be the major androgen of the prostate gland

So for every deciliter of blood that goes through the prostate, 90% of the T is converting to DHT due extremely high lvls of 5AR. So pre dutasteride in the prostate would look like 100 ng T and 900 ng DHT per deciliter of blood flowing through the prostate. After dutasteride, DHT would drop down to 9 ng (dutasteride inhibits 99% of type 2 5ar which is what is in prostate and hair follicle) and T should shoot up to around to 1110 (810 ng that were prvsly converting to DHT + 100 ng that wasn't + the 20% increase of T caused by dutasteride).

So pre dutasteride, androgenic stimulation in prostate gland per deciliter comes out to 4600 (900*5 +100) and after dutasteride androgenic stimulation is down to 1155 (9*5 + 1110).

So dutasteride reduces androgenic stimulation by about 75% in the prostate gland. These results should translate over to any tissue that has high levels of 5AR type 2, like the hair follicle. Much better result than your erroneous OP.