Dutasteride Is Not That More Effective Than Finasteride

[DHTcel]

Saying Dutasteride lowers your androgen levels by 20% is misleading. 5 AR inhibitors drasticly reduce androgenic stimulation. Your hormone profile becomes less androgenic and more anabolic. A purely anabolic hormone will not cause hair loss. There are actually two types of androgen receptors. DHT is the most androgenic androgen. Testosterone has a 1:1 anabolic androgenic ratio while DHT is about 5:1 in favor of androgenic if I remember correctly.

So say some one has, before dutasteride, 1000 ng/dl for T and 100 ng/dl for DHT. If we take DHT for having 5 times the androgenic stimulation as T, that gives and Androgenic value of 1500 and an Anabolic value 1020. After taking dutasteride for several months they get a 90% decrease ind DHT and a 20% increase in T. Now they 1200 ng/dl T and 10 ng/dl DHT with an Androgenic value of 1250 and an Anabolic value of 1202.

So dutasteride reduces androgenic stimulation by about 17% but increases anabolic stimulation by roughly the same amount. This is similar to your excercise in you did in your OP but you forgot to include the T increase with dutasteride. Also, this is not accurate because it's taking a systematic look at these values which is irrelevant when we are actually concerned with peripheral tissue levels.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone



So for every deciliter of blood that goes through the prostate, 90% of the T is converting to DHT due extremely high lvls of 5AR. So pre dutasteride in the prostate would look like 100 ng T and 900 ng DHT per deciliter of blood flowing through the prostate. After dutasteride, DHT would drop down to 9 ng (dutasteride inhibits 99% of type 2 5ar which is what is in prostate and hair follicle) and T should shoot up to around to 1110 (810 ng that were prvsly converting to DHT + 100 ng that wasn't + the 20% increase of T caused by dutasteride).

So pre dutasteride, androgenic stimulation in prostate gland per deciliter comes out to 4600 (900*5 +100) and after dutasteride androgenic stimulation is down to 1155 (9*5 + 1110).

So dutasteride reduces androgenic stimulation by about 75% in the prostate gland. These results should translate over to any tissue that has high levels of 5AR type 2, like the hair follicle. Much better result than your erroneous OP.

JFL at the cope, purely obvious Dutasteride doesn't have a 75% reduction In Androgen levels, DHT is only 4 times androgenic as T and T is 20x more abundant. Go read a book.

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

JFL at the cope, purely obvious Dutasteride doesn't have a 75% reduction In Androgen levels, DHT is only 4 times androgenic as T and T is 20x more abundant. Go read a book.

I never said dutasteride reduces androgen levels by 75%. Maybe try reading. You severely overestimate your intelligence.

 

[Tommybommy1363]

I said RELIABLY stop hair loss. Sure there are stories around dark internet forums about finasteride, lasers, needles, etc. But I only believe what I can see, and all men I've talked to about it have tried it, never worked, not for me either. Once it starts, it goes.

I didnt know it at the time, but around 18 years old I receeded from a NW0 to about NW1.5, and it just stopped there for 14 years. Imagine if I was on these forums back then and got on finasteride, I'd be jumping around claiming success that finasteride held my hair for over a decade bro! Just get on finasteride bro problem solved! Hair loss can start and stop by itself at any time. I believe most people on finasteride would have maintained regardless, until actual balding started, then claim finasteride stopped working. In my mind, snake oils.

Except we have a large double blind randomized control trial saying otherwise...

 

[Ikarus]

You didn't get into my head! You and your dhtcel want to become trannies! Again you have NOTHING to offer anyone! Every few years we hear about a cure that will be available in 5 years pffft. Not likely.. and your not on the path to find that cure! But if you were to I'd bow down and apologize

What’s your regimen?

 

[Moosey]

@Feelsbadman.jpg
Why are you even talking to that guy? Hes from lookism.

Your post about aromatase is very interesting. A few questions regarding that.
- Are you implying that if i was to take steroids, i could experience no or little hairloss if i take dutasteride and NO AI (aromatase inhibitor), which is obviously an unusual thing to do?
- If estradiol (or estrogens in general) are that protective of the hair, and even overwrite the negative effects of androgens, then shouldnt we all buy estradiol cremes and smear that stuff on our scalps?

 

[DHTcel]

@Feelsbadman.jpg
Why are you even talking to that guy? Hes from lookism.

Your post about aromatase is very interesting. A few questions regarding that.
- Are you implying that if i was to take steroids, i could experience no or little hairloss if i take dutasteride and NO AI (aromatase inhibitor), which is obviously an unusual thing to do?
- If estradiol (or estrogens in general) are that protective of the hair, and even overwrite the negative effects of androgens, then shouldnt we all buy estradiol cremes and smear that stuff on our scalps?

no if u take steroids and dutasteride you will have more androgens then if u didn't take steroids and dutasteride. More androgens=more hairloss, its simple

 

[Moosey]

@DHTcel
This will be my only response to you.
Testosterone is converted to DHT via the 5-ar enzyme. If you are on steroids, you have more testosterone, yes. But taking steroids doesnt increase the amount of 5-ar enzymes you have in your body. Dutasteride lowers DHT by blocking the 5-are enzyme. A steroid user, and someone who doesnt use steroids, have the same amount of 5-ar enzymes. If your IQ isnt single digit, you can make up your own conclusion from that

 

[DHTcel]

@DHTcel
This will be my only response to you.
Testosterone is converted to DHT via the 5-ar enzyme. If you are on steroids, you have more testosterone, yes. But taking steroids doesnt increase the amount of 5-ar enzymes you have in your body. Dutasteride lowers DHT by blocking the 5-are enzyme. A steroid user, and someone who doesnt use steroids, have the same amount of 5-ar enzymes. If your IQ isnt single digit, you can make up your own conclusion from that

testosterone is an androgen, androgen causes hairloss, not DHT idiot. if u take steroids and increase your testosterone by 800% you will go bald, in fact how about you do that and we make a thread and laugh at you when u get your desired horseshoe, idiot.

 

[shidoin]

testosterone is an androgen, androgen causes hairloss, not DHT idiot. if u take steroids and increase your testosterone by 800% you will go bald, in fact how about you do that and we make a thread and laugh at you when u get your desired horseshoe, idiot.

https://www.dryateshairscience.com/hair-loss-associated-with-testosterone

 

[DHTcel]

https://www.dryateshairscience.com/hair-loss-associated-with-testosterone

@hemingway_the_mercenary @Ikarus this juicehead is beyond dumb

 

[Ikarus]

@DHTcel
This will be my only response to you.
Testosterone is converted to DHT via the 5-ar enzyme. If you are on steroids, you have more testosterone, yes. But taking steroids doesnt increase the amount of 5-ar enzymes you have in your body. Dutasteride lowers DHT by blocking the 5-are enzyme. A steroid user, and someone who doesnt use steroids, have the same amount of 5-ar enzymes. If your IQ isnt single digit, you can make up your own conclusion from that

Have you not noticed the amount of transgender males who go bald after transitioning? It’s due to androgens. In fact, male pattern baldness is a common effect after transitioning. When transitioning, they use testosterone but that doesn’t increase the amount of 5-alpha reductase since biological women naturally don’t have such conversion to DHT, unlike biological males.

 

[Ikarus]

@hemingway_the_mercenary @Ikarus this juicehead is beyond dumb

Why are they promoting the ‘optimisation of testosterone’? I don’t think I want more hair loss... Although, I do like the idea of HRT

 

[shidoin]

@hemingway_the_mercenary @Ikarus this juicehead is beyond dumb

You are a child that doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Why don't you take your argument to the top scientists. You will be shot down so fast they would laugh you out of the building

 

[Ikarus]

You are a child that doesn't know his *** from a hole in the ground. Why don't you take your argument to the top scientists. You will be shot down so fast they would laugh you out of the building

Aren’t scientists the same people that believe DHT is the only hormone which causes hair loss?

 

[shidoin]

Aren’t scientists the same people that believe DHT is the only hormone which causes hair loss?

The same scientist that have proven that testosterone converting to dht will miniaturize the hairs in people susceptible to male pattern baldness. And they never claimed that dht was the only hormone responsible. They aren't arrogant little children.
There are other enzymes involved. If they figure out a way to target all of them we will have a cure

 

[Tommybommy1363]

When did this weird little cult of teenagers with little hair loss taking transgender and prostate cancer medications arise.... very strange.

 

[Ikarus]

The same scientist that have proven that testosterone converting to dht will miniaturize the hairs in people susceptible to male pattern baldness. And they never claimed that dht was the only hormone responsible. They aren't arrogant little children.
There are other enzymes involved. If they figure out a way to target all of them we will have a cure

Sure Jan

 

[Moosey]

@Ikarus
That isnt true. Where are you getting that from? Women very well do have DHT in their bodies.
My whole point was that, dutasteride will significantly reduce the DHT in your body, even if you are on steroids.
There was a case report of someone who brought up his testosterone to 2000 ng/dl (which is ca. 3-4x the amount of the average joe), and dutasteride brought down his DHT levels so much, that the blood test was not able to detect it at all.

Obviously, testosterone itself attacks the hair follicle too.

 

[DHTcel]

@Ikarus
That isnt true. Where are you getting that from? Women very well do have DHT in their bodies.
My whole point was that, dutasteride will significantly reduce the DHT in your body, even if you are on steroids.
There was a case report of someone who brought up his testosterone to 2000 ng/dl (which is ca. 3-4x the amount of the average joe), and dutasteride brought down his DHT levels so much, that the blood test was not able to detect it at all.

Obviously, testosterone itself attacks the hair follicle too.

testosterone plays a greater role in hair loss than DHT does, it is a more abundant androgen and androgens cause hairloss

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

@Feelsbadman.jpg
Why are you even talking to that guy? Hes from lookism.

Nothing wrong with Lookism in moderation. Dose of reality is good.

Your post about aromatase is very interesting. A few questions regarding that.
- Are you implying that if i was to take steroids, i could experience no or little hairloss if i take dutasteride and NO AI (aromatase inhibitor), which is obviously an unusual thing to do?

It depends on a lot of factors but mainly how much aromatase enzyme is in the hair follicle, how quickly the T converts to Estradiol, and how long T has to interact with the androgen receptor prior to converting to Estradiol. If you take steriods and have supraphysiological levels of T in your system, then most likely you will still have extensive T binding with androgen receptor in hair follicle, not enough aromatase to convert supraphysiological levels I would imagine.

There are plenty of anecdotal reports of dudes juicing while on dutasteride and having no issues with hair loss but this over a short period of time. Given a long enough time period at that level of T exposure, they might start thinning. It just depends on the follicles genetic resistance to androgens and how quickly it converts the T to E which will vary between individuals.

- If estradiol (or estrogens in general) are that protective of the hair, and even overwrite the negative effects of androgens, then shouldnt we all buy estradiol cremes and smear that stuff on our scalps?

I mean you can but it will go systemic and give you side effects. Some people were using topical estriol but I don't think they had great results. From my understanding, for estrogens to really give good regrowth, you have to eliminate all or most of the androgenic stimulation, otherwise your getting opposing genetic instructions in the hair follicle. This is what happens w/ 5 AR inhibitors. DHT is shut down so androgenic stimulation declines which is good but T is still active and has its own androgenic properties. So T is giving androgenic instructions but when it converts to E that in turn gives hair growth promoting instructions. Which one wins out depends on what is being transcribed more in the hair follicle genetically by these hormones. My understanding at least.