Dutasteride Is Not That More Effective Than Finasteride

[Ikarus]

The 20.8% that experienced no change still maintained the hair that they had before treatment. They just didn't get regrowth. Being able to maintain is a big success in itself. Regrowth is an added bonus. Basically, in this study, 99.4% either got maintenance or regrowth on dutasteride after four years. And in the finasteride study that Itsjustsimon quoted, 87% either maintained or regrew after 10 years. These studies demonstrate the incredible effectiveness of finasteride and dutasteride as hair loss treatments.

I don't know why there are people on here doubting the effectiveness of finasteride and dutasteride. The evidence that these drugs work for hair loss is so overwhelming that it doesn't make sense to me why it is even being questioned on here.

Maintenence isn’t a big success. If someone has diffuse thinning prior to treatment, but maintain what they currently have, I don’t see that as a success. I see that as a waste of time.

In the finasteride study, those 87% just had to reach the baseline. I looked at the images provided, and those results were horrendous. But, it has to be classed as an improvement since they spouted hairs which have the same density as the hairs on my arm.

If someone went on finasteride and experienced great results within the first five years. After that, it was a case of maintenence and then the medication started to lose its effectiveness and thinning began. After ten years, the medication is continuously losing its effectiveness but you still have more hair than in the baseline. After all, the main discussion is long-term use however I can’t credit those statistics since the situation I explained could be included within that.

 

[Ikarus]

Dude, you really comparing nuking testosterone and androgen receptors all over your body to blocking 5ar?

I guess to each his own but don't rationalise your insane regimen with "cyproterone is better than dutasteride" without mentioning what it really does to your body. Men can live normal lives without DHT but not testosterone.

Try blocking receptors on your scalp with enza/daro/RU/CB before you start with this insanity.

Why can’t men live normal lives without testosterone?

 

[itsjustsimon]

Why can’t men live normal lives without testosterone?

Idk man, I guess my "normal" is not the same as yours if I need to explain it.

 

[Ikarus]

Idk man, I guess my "normal" is not the same as yours if I need to explain it.

I am genuinely asking. But, living without testosterone isn't an issue unless you make it one. At the end of the day, the value of hair is much more significant than masculinity. Treatments such as finasteride and dutasteride doesn't work out as expected for a significant amount of users.

Some people use finasteride or dutasteride in hopes that they maintain for the time being until a new treatment comes out. I don't think that's a wise idea, since I have huge doubts that treatments such as Replicel will be coming out anytime soon.

 

[Michael1986]

Maintenence isn’t a big success. If someone has diffuse thinning prior to treatment, but maintain what they currently have, I don’t see that as a success. I see that as a waste of time.

Which is why it is essential to start treatment at the first signs of loss. If you start treatment at the first signs of loss, maintaining what you have left (which will be almost all of your hair) will be a success.

 

[NotInmywatch]

I am genuinely asking. But, living without testosterone isn't an issue unless you make it one. At the end of the day, the value of hair is much more significant than masculinity. Treatments such as finasteride and dutasteride doesn't work out as expected for a significant amount of users.

Some people use finasteride or dutasteride in hopes that they maintain for the time being until a new treatment comes out. I don't think that's a wise idea, since I have huge doubts that treatments such as Replicel will be coming out anytime soon.

dude are you insane? living without testosterone isn't an issue??? we only have isolated reports of fina/duta causing secondary hypogonadism, but it has been long suspected that there is a significant risk for a group of patients that increases with time of treatment. Low T is associated with a lot of serious diseases including osteoporosis....... jesus f***

 

[Ikarus]

Which is why it is essential to start treatment at the first signs of loss. If you start treatment at the first signs of loss, maintaining what you have left (which will be almost all of your hair) will be a success.

I will use myself as an example; I began losing my hair at fourteen. I don't know a single fourteen year old who knows what finasteride/dutasteride is. Even with the general population, when it comes to hair loss there's a lengthy denial phase. You have to keep that in mind because not everyone jumps onto finasteride/dutasteride as soon as they notice hair loss.

Another issue with your conclusion of maintenance, if I continued with my chemical castration regimen and got to the point I wanted to, do you think I could maintain with dutasteride?

 

[Ikarus]

dude are you insane? living without testosterone isn't an issue??? we only have isolated reports of fina/duta causing secondary hypogonadism, but it has been long suspected that there is a significant risk for a group of patients that increases with time of treatment. Low T is associated with a lot of serious diseases including osteoporosis....... jesus f***

That's why you replace testosterone with estrogen!

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Dude, you really comparing nuking testosterone and androgen receptors all over your body to blocking 5ar?

I guess to each his own but don't rationalise your insane regimen with "cyproterone is better than dutasteride" without mentioning what it really does to your body. Men can live normal lives without DHT but not testosterone.

Try blocking receptors on your scalp with enza/daro/RU/CB before you start with this insanity.

Yea right dude. Try blocking 5ar from birth. You will grow up with a small dick, erectile dysfunction, and feminine features

Not to mention dht makes you feel masculine too much more so than testosterone. Also no, most men can’t take dutasteride forever with no sides. Sides are self reported in the studies, if it was observed they would find men on dutasteride has much slower erection buildup, Lowe libido, more difficulty maintaining erections, and a whole bunch of other sides.

I never said cypro is better than dutasteride. I said it’s not far off.

@Moosey the only reason people on cypro would get more sexual sides is because dht is converted from testosterone. If there was a way to reduce test but keep dht the same you would finasteride that most men woul retain sexual function just fine. Of course you would lose muscle because dht is not active in muscle tissues

Whatever you both are delusional if you think it’s normal to take dutasteride and you won’t get sides. 99% of your main androgen will be gone! Think about that

Don’t @ me

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Yea right dude. Try blocking 5ar from birth. You will grow up with a small dick, erectile dysfunction, and feminine features

Not to mention dht makes you feel masculine too much more so than testosterone. Also no, most men can’t take dutasteride forever with no sides. Sides are self reported in the studies, if it was observed they would find men on dutasteride has much slower erection buildup, Lowe libido, more difficulty maintaining erections, and a whole bunch of other sides.

I never said cypro is better than dutasteride. I said it’s not far off.

@Moosey the only reason people on cypro would get more sexual sides is because dht is converted from testosterone. If there was a way to reduce test but keep dht the same you would finasteride that most men woul retain sexual function just fine. Of course you would lose muscle because dht is not active in muscle tissues

Whatever you both are delusional if you think it’s normal to take dutasteride and you won’t get sides. 99% of your main androgen will be gone! Think about that

Don’t @ me

Testosterone is the primary androgen in men, not DHT. Testosterone to DHT ratio is 10:1 in adult male.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1258/acb.2012.012159

Adult male
Testosterone continues to be the principal testicular androgen, released in episodic pulses. As mentioned above, a diurnal rhythm is also detected with an elevation of testosterone secretion through the night with peak serum testosterone at 6-9 00, with a subsequent fall during the day.30–34 Approximately 95% of plasma testosterone is synthesized in the testis with the remainder being adrenal in origin. Serum DHT concentration is approximately l/10th that of testosterone while androstenedione is about one-fifth. Circulating DHT is principally derived (70%) from conversion of testosterone by non-gonadal tissues, with 30% being directly secreted by the testis or adrenals: the prostate does not contribute to circulating DHT.3

DHT is only really active in peripheral tissue. Most men don't get sides on finasteride or dutasteride, even after 10 years. DHT's purpose is to initiate secondary sexual characteristics. After that, it really is just an unnecessary carcinogenic hormone that increases with age as a by product of increasing 5AR activity which can in turn result in lower testosterone levels.

 

[Kaus Klinski]

@Feelsbadman.jpg

I totally agree. And DHT isn't even anabolic ;-> It's just a strong androgen, but I think after the onset of puberty, once a male has fully developed, it does more harm than good. One could argue that it kind of counteracts E2, but if I want less of an effect from E2, I'd take an ARI drug (which I do).

Regards
Kaus Klinski

 

[itsjustsimon]

Yea right dude. Try blocking 5ar from birth. You will grow up with a small dick, erectile dysfunction, and feminine features

Whatever man lol.. Rationalize using cyproterone and bica whatever you like, but your arguments are just plain stupid. Nobody here is 9 years old and is on dutasteride. We get that DHT is necessary to a certain age.

 

[ScaredOfBalding]

Whatever man lol.. Rationalize using cyproterone and bica whatever you like, but your arguments are just plain stupid. Nobody here is 9 years old and is on dutasteride. We get that DHT is necessary to a certain age.

Ur argumenting against a wall mate, it's hopeless here. Let them trannymaxx, sooner or later they will regret it.

 

[Alex Contee]

He is providing useful information...

The framing is incredibly dangerous. I find this website useful and would like the information shared here to remain public. The terms and conditions for lurkers is unenforceable and I don’t want the owners sued for negligence. It’s only a matter of time.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

The framing is incredibly dangerous. I find this website useful and would like the information shared here to remain public. The terms and conditions for lurkers is unenforceable and I don’t want the owners sued for negligence. It’s only a matter of time.

None of this sh*t is medical advice, you can’t sue someone for having theories posted online

 

[LastHope123]

Why can’t men live normal lives without testosterone?

Cause if you want to function as a normal man, you need testosterone in your body. You can live a normal life without testosterone and with supplementation of estrogen, but you cannot live as a male normally do. You will basically turn into a female, not genetically but hormonally. Reducing testosterone ten fold and increasing estrogen not only changes your body, but also your brain and therefore also your behaviour. Changes in oxytocin, vasopressin, ER-X activation, ER-Beta activation, ER-Alpha activation (which actually is bad for the hair), GPER-activation, brain plasticity changes, modulation of several receptors and changes in gene transcriptions. Unless you want the body makeup similar to a female, that is not a route for male pattern baldness.

The only estrogen that could be considered somewhat safe for a man that wants to live as a normal male is selective estrogen-beta receptor agonists that does not have antigonadotropic effects. And we are talking about like 100-1000 fold selective agonists over the estrogen-alpha receptor. And yes, they exist. But you won't probably get your hands on them unless you know about a labarotory where they study them or a very good chemist that can make them.

Higher estrogen makes me feel like sh*t and unstable emtionally. I immediatly notice that it does not go well with my genetic makeup. Higher testosterone makes me feel like I'm going on rocket fuel. I have more energy, more confidence, sharper mind, less brain fog, better sleep and feeling better in general.

 

[LastHope123]

People on this website NEED to understand that testosterone causes hair loss, not DHT.@Sonolmn98 @Maave

It is very obvious that you have not researched alot about male pattern baldness, because both are androgens and potential factors in male pattern baldness.

Although Testosterone is 10-20x more abundant than DHT on a ng/dl basis in the male autonomy. DHT is about 3-5x more androgenic so lets just say 1ng of DHT is 4ng of androgens in comparison to testosterone. The normal range for testosterone levels are 300-1000ng/dl and for DHT it is 25-75mg/dl. We know that androgens (testosterone and dht) cause hair loss. so if you take a person 1000ng/dl of testosterone and 75ng/dl of DHT(1000X1=1000 + (75*4)=1300 of androgens. lets just say we give them Dutasteride. WELL, they will have 90% less DHT. so then they have (1000 + 7.5*4)=1030 of androgens. 1030/1300 Is a 20% reduction in androgen levels. so how TF are u gonna tell me that reducing my androgens by 20% is gonna cure my hair loss????@Sonolmn98 @Maave

Because your calculations are completely false and unrelated. It's not that simple to calculate the local effects of a hormone just based on total blood levels in the human body. Because not only may a hormone have different levels in different parts of the body, their binding affinites and type of action may be different on the exact same type of receptor depending on location. A miniscule change in the chemistry of a drug can change it's action left, right, up, down or in f*****g circles. Density of the receptors may also be completely different at the top of your head compared to under your feet. It is very obvious that your research is very limited, so I don't know why you are trying to give me a lecture about something you clearly have no clue about. This thread is full of "broscience".

 

[Ikarus]

Cause if you want to function as a normal man, you need testosterone in your body. You can live a normal life without testosterone and with supplementation of estrogen, but you cannot live as a male normally do. You will basically turn into a female, not genetically but hormonally. Reducing testosterone ten fold and increasing estrogen not only changes your body, but also your brain and therefore also your behaviour. Changes in oxytocin, vasopressin, ER-X activation, ER-Beta activation, ER-Alpha activation (which actually is bad for the hair), GPER-activation, brain plasticity changes, modulation of several receptors and changes in gene transcriptions. Unless you want the body makeup similar to a female, that is not a route for male pattern baldness.

The only estrogen that could be considered somewhat safe for a man that wants to live as a normal male is selective estrogen-beta receptor agonists that does not have antigonadotropic effects. And we are talking about like 100-1000 fold selective agonists over the estrogen-alpha receptor. And yes, they exist. But you won't probably get your hands on them unless you know about a labarotory where they study them or a very good chemist that can make them.

Higher estrogen makes me feel like sh*t and unstable emtionally. I immediatly notice that it does not go well with my genetic makeup. Higher testosterone makes me feel like I'm going on rocket fuel. I have more energy, more confidence, sharper mind, less brain fog, better sleep and feeling better in general.

I’m living normally as a male. Modifying your hormonal profile to match a woman’s doesn’t make you a woman since your biology remains the same. Although there are those changes, that doesn’t stop me from living a normal life as a male. It does make me significantly less aggressive and more emotional but is that necessarily a bad aspect? It is a route for male pattern baldness and it has been proven time and time again. At the end of the day, the main goal is regrowth so if you have to modify your hormonal profile to achieve that, so be it.

And that’s weird. Ever since I started E, I have become more confident, content and relaxed. And this happens to be common within many who decide to make such a hormonal shift. Have I become more emotional? Yes. But, that’s something I enjoy since it has made me more sympathetic rather than cold and emotionless. When it comes to confidence, I have become more confident since there are significant changes which were making me lack confidence. E has completely cleared my skin, and has made my face more proportionate whereas before it looked off. It has made my butt bigger which was something I was self-conscious about since it was flat as a board previously.

 

[Ikarus]

It is very obvious that you have not researched alot about male pattern baldness, because both are androgens and potential factors in male pattern baldness.



Because your calculations are completely false and unrelated. It's not that simple to calculate the local effects of a hormone just based on total blood levels in the human body. Because not only may a hormone have different levels in different parts of the body, their binding affinites and type of action may be different on the exact same type of receptor depending on location. Receptor density may also be different. It is very obvious that your research is very limited, so I don't know why you are trying to give me a lecture about something you clearly have no clue about. This thread is full of "broscience".

Yikes, another minoxidil user is trying to give others advice...

 

[LastHope123]

Modifying your hormonal profile to match a woman’s doesn’t make you a woman since your biology remains the same

Which is why I said:

You will basically turn into a female, not genetically but hormonally.

Although there are those changes, that doesn’t stop me from living a normal life as a male. It does make me significantly less aggressive and more emotional but is that necessarily a bad aspect? It is a route for male pattern baldness and it has been proven time and time again. At the end of the day, the main goal is regrowth so if you have to modify your hormonal profile to achieve that, so be it.

That is a completely subjective statement. Maybe it works for you, good for you, but it is not the general consensus to be able to still fully function as a normal male after starting a male to female hormonal transition. You don't have to change your whole hormonal profile to have any effect on male pattern baldness. Different people have different ability to sustain certain regiments without physical complications or personal tolerance for difference types of side effects, not to mention difference in response to different hair loss regiments. Some people are satisfied with halted hair loss, some are only satisfied with regrowth. You don't have the answer for everybody.

From a medical standpoint of view, advicing any random person on a forum to do such a powerful regiment with possible life long consequenses without medical advice or medical supervision is just irresponsible.

And that’s weird. Ever since I started E, I have become more confident, content and relaxed. And this happens to be common within many who decide to make such a hormonal shift. Have I become more emotional? Yes. But, that’s something I enjoy since it has made me more sympathetic rather than cold and emotionless. When it comes to confidence, I have become more confident since there are significant changes which were making me lack confidence. E has completely cleared my skin, and has made my face more proportionate whereas before it looked off. It has made my butt bigger which was something I was self-conscious about since it was flat as a board previously.

Yes, common and wanted effects in male to female transexuals who undergo hormonal treatment under medical supervision. Not wanted effects in 99.9% of males that is looking for treatment against male pattern baldness.
And if you are doing the regiment you claim to do without being transexual, you most likely don't have prescription or medical supervision either, but you are obviously a fake anyway.