Equol

[hairrific]

That's right it does not touch 5ar! The only thing is using the soy isoflavinoids to stimulate Equol production can increase estrogen (I don't know which estrogen and if it is bad). But there are other ways to stimulate production of Equol, one is through a raw seaweed used in Japan but not here at all.

 

[Mopless]

Any pictures of actual visible results for hairloss with this Equol stuff?

 

[Hoppi]

oo this is quite promising!

"I have taken Densiti for about 6 weeks now. At the 3 week mark I was still losing quite a bit of hair daily then about 2 1/2 weeks ago my hair loss one day was half then within another couple of days it was about a third of what it's been for awhile now. I do take Proscar and use a minoxidil product and have for years but they don't seem to be doing the job anymore and my hair loss accelerated. My hair loss now continues to be about a third of what it's been for the past few months. I'm going to keep taking Densiti, drinking soy milk and eating yogurt!"

That was from another forum, but yes that is the first example I have seen of someone using Equol, and it looks quite positive!

This is something I will definitely keep an eye on and try to research more into


EDIT -- Wow, this is my favourite bit on the Densiti website..

"The Densiti system has not been shown to have any effect on libido, reproductive vitality, or secondary sex characteristics. Other products, particularly those containing finasteride, have had reported side effects such as erectile dysfunction and loss of libido. Densiti does not lower the overall production of DHT in the body. It simply binds to previously circulating DHT molecules in the hair follicles. DHT is still available in the sex organs in ample quantities. During testing of the Densiti formula there were no clinically significant changes in libido reported."

Did anyone else feel the ray of light come down when they read that xD

I've only been taking finasteride for like.. I dunno 4 days or something and every time I take it I'm sure I experience at least mild sexual sides ._. it sucks.

 

[KeepTheHair]

This looks like some more hope?


Perhaps just hippy hoppi hype?

I hope not .

I hope this will work. I don't fully grasp what it is though. hehe

 

[billythekid]

is this the stuff in soy milk?

when i first noticed a receeding hairline, i started drinking soy. 2x small glass/day.

after a while, i stopped worrying about hairloss, i think my hair improved and it felt like i didn't age (when i look back and think about what happened when i stopped).

then i go on an overseas holiday for a few months. at which time i stopped drinking soy milk. i come back and my hair starts to shed and disappear.

i freaked out. started taking SP and soy. didn't work, so i then tried finasteride for a couple of months. got sides and hair got much much worse. had to quit after a few months. now i can't even take soy milk because i get gyno.

in short, i think equol can work.

 

[Hoppi]

Yeah the connection with gyno is concerning, but I believe if one were to take grape seed extract / DIM (and possibly plant lignans, vitamin D, sensoril), it should counteract these effects.

I would imagine it's because a decrease in serum DHT can potentially lead to increased dominance of estrogen. If one has adequate testosterone levels and is keeping their estrogen in check (as the combo above should achieve) then you should be fine, however I am unsure how strong the estrogenic effects of equol are, I would like to discover more about this.

As for soy, as I've said before I really don't believe it is wholly good, but some components of it are incredible. I feel the same about green tea, at least with regard to male pattern baldness!

 

[dougfunny]

i have a hard time believing that is going to do anything for gyno.

i've tried taking finasteride with tamoxifen which is like a million times more potent than any of these herbal remedies and i still get gyno..

 

[Hoppi]

You know what's weird?

There are so many places that the different hair loss communities online disagree on things, so many ways I might disagree with people on places, etc. But it seems that more than anything else, the one thing we all agree on... is equol

I think we really need to work out how to make this stuff!

 

[Jacob]

I don't think everyone agrees.....

But..just wanted to point out there is at least one skin product that contains equol: https://www.nuskin.com/content/dam/global/library/pdf/products/ageloc_serum.pdf

 

[Jacob]

More on that:

http://dennisclifton.wordpress.com/2010/03/19/equol-has-incredible-potential-for-nu-skin/

BYU licenses soy technology to Nu Skin for anti-aging serum

BYU research has shown that a molecule made when soy is digested stimulates production of collagen and elastin, two key components of healthy skin. Now, the university has licensed the technology to Nu Skin Enterprises to use in a serum that’s part of its anti-aging product line.

A research team led by Edwin Lephart, a professor of physiology and developmental biology, discovered around 2004 that the molecule made by metabolizing soy isoflavons, called equol, has potential impact on not only skin, but baldness, prostate health, weight gain and brain health.

Lephart said that equol may have implications for promoting wound healing as well, based on the molecule’s characteristics.

 

[Hoppi]

But there are other ways to stimulate production of Equol, one is through a raw seaweed used in Japan but not here at all.

Hmm.. do you think if one were to take Densiti, daidzein (in some kind of supplement), that raw seaweed and straight equol... SURELY one of them would make it into the body! lol

Am I right in saying that daidzein is the only active part of soy when it comes to making equol?

Additionally, it sounds extreme but if one were to.. inject equol.. would THAT work?

So odd that something potentially so important can be so difficult to get into your body

 

[Hoppi]

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go on Densiti (with FERMENTED soy!) and a good dose of iodine (to offset the goitrogenic properties of soy, and give my thyroid a kick) as an alternative to finasteride. I don't like the sexual sides of finasteride, and equol sounds like a much healthier alternative. I might take a few other bits n bobs as well, I'm not sure, but I just really hope this works so I can get on with my life again and not have to worry about my hair

 

[Bryan]

I don't like the sexual sides of finasteride, and equol sounds like a much healthier alternative.

Now let me make sure I'm understanding you correctly: you think finasteride will give you sexual side effects, but not equol? Hey, good luck on that one!

 

[Jacob]

Topically Hoppi.

 

[Bryan]

Topically Hoppi.

It is, isn't it?

It's perfectly okay to knock-out DHT with something like equol, as long as it's "natural"; but if it's a drug like finasteride, oh the horror!! OH, THE HUMANITY!!! :shock:

 

[Hoppi]

Inhibiting 5ar is different. I agree that "mopping up" DHT is likely to have significantly fewer side effects than actually reducing 5-alpha reductase. It may not be quite as potent, but then I would also imagine it is less likely to make the follicles more sensitive over time, so there are pros and cons to everything in this world

 

[el_duterino]

I did buy some equol from LCL labs but never used it.
I doubt that it will be very effective as a topical.
That's because DHT is produced locally in the cells close to the androge receptors and that equol would have a hard time catching all that DHT.

DHT is produced round the clock. You cannot expect equol molecules waiting there in the dermis,?round-the-clock at the best spot ready to "catch DHT" unless you apply it all the time on your scalp.

And since other androgens can trigger hairloss, not only DHT, equol would not even be the final answer although it might help a bit.

Better to use a drug that blocks the androgen receptors from all the androgens, and this over a long period of time (24h) like RU does.

 

[Bryan]

Inhibiting 5ar is different. I agree that "mopping up" DHT is likely to have significantly fewer side effects than actually reducing 5-alpha reductase.

But you were talking specifically before about sexual side effects: "I don't like the sexual sides of finasteride, and equol sounds like a much healthier alternative." Does anybody really doubt that the lack of DHT is what causes such sexual side effects when you take finasteride? Assuming that that's what really causes it, it shouldn't MATTER whether you take finasteride or equol, as far as sexual side effects are specifically concerned! It doesn't make any difference whether you prevent the DHT from being formed in the first place, or bind another molecule to it after it's formed, making it inert.

It may not be quite as potent, but then I would also imagine it is less likely to make the follicles more sensitive over time, so there are pros and cons to everything in this world

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Disabling a molecule of DHT should have the same effect on hair follicles, regardless of whether you use finasteride or equol.

 

[Jacob]

el_duterino....how about with liposomes or such tech..that allow for timed-release?

I'm actually not sure what they say equol does topically...for hair loss. Or maybe I should say..exactly how it's supposed to work.

 

[Hoppi]

Thing is I'm very wary of taking one approach too far, as I don't want to increase the sensitivity of the follicles. I thought that a regimen involving equol, CoA (or it's precursors), DIM, vitamin D, beta-sitosterol, things like that (perhaps backed up with a curcumin/gse combo etc) might tackle hair loss from a number of angles without encouraging the follicles to become too much more sensitive.. that's the hope anyway!

Ah in addition, even without the equol the combo of green tea and soy (as would be present when Densiti and soy are taken) apparently also reduces DHT very significantly, and would contain EGCG which may encourage reduction of androgen receptors.

I'll definitely give it a bash anyway, apparently there is a big launch of Densiti later this year and I really truly hope it is something special... I think we'll have to wait and see, and I will post my results too when I get hold of it