Equol

[joseph49853]

Some great finds there Jacob. I appreciate your making hair loss forums worth visiting.

Too funny. I had originally been using astaxanthin in a topical. It worked well, but was really sloppy and staining. I might have to give it another try in a lower concentration.

Incidentally, a great way to dramatically raise HDL cholesterol is by using: astaxanthin, vitamin D3 gelcaps, and the good old standby niacin. How do I know? My grandmother got her blood lipids tested after one year of supplementing with them. If I remember correctly her HDL rose around 35 points.

Also, an excellent way to increase circulating HGH is by consuming niacin (also secretagogues and full body exercises) in absense of any lipids. Increasing natural HGH and HDL are very beneficial in respect to overall hair growth.

 

[Jacob]

Assuming the astaxanthin staining didn't wash off...Elsom via their Formulator I think has astaxanthin available. Something about their tech prevents things like this from actually staining.

I'm surprised there aren't krill oil products out there with things added to it.. like Vit D.

 

[hairrific]

http://www.otsuka-global.com/news/regional/2010/0331_01_02.html

NOVEL SOY GERM-BASED DIETARY SUPPLEMENT, SE5-OH CONTAINING
NATURAL S-EQUOL, EXAMINED FOR SAFETY AND INFLUENCE ON HORMONES
IN PRE- AND POST-MENOPAUSAL WOMEN

http://www.otsuka-global.com/news/regional/2010/0331_01_02.html

How SE5-OH is made

SE5-OH for both studies was created under current Good Manufacturing Practices using the Lactic acid bacterial strain Lactococcus garvieae 20-92 in a patented and proprietary process by the Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. The patented fermentation process converts daidzein, a naturally occurring compound in soy germ, to Natural S-equol, steadily increasing the concentration of Natural S-equol until reaching a maximum concentration at 72 to 96 hours and decreasing daidzein by 95 percent. Following fermentation, the SE5-OH powder undergoes a sterilization process using heat denaturation that deactivates the bacteria. The process is designed to produce a product rich in Natural S-equol that can be used as a nutraceutical ingredient.


I am wondering is this the same thing as the Alphastat® product for sale by Natures Plus ?


Zinc (as monomethionine, sulfate) 15 mg 100%
Alphastat® 200 mg **
(patented complex of Serenoa repens fruit extract and Haematococcus
pluvialis algae extract, providing free fatty acids and astaxanthin)

Not sure I understand. I want S-equol from the SE5-OH process. Is there a brand name where do I buy it?

The above SE5-OH process "converts daidzein into natural S-equol for use as a nutraceutical ingredient".

1. This is for sale and for consumption and is called Alphastat®??? Which is S-equol??? Alphastat is "patented complex of Serenoa repens fruit extract and Haematococcus pluvialis algae extract, providing free fatty acids and astaxanthin. That does not sound like the SE5-OH S-equol.

2. If you are not an equol producer, and you take this product, you will be as if you were an eqoul producer, because the conversion has already been done for you in the manufacturing process???

3. So this "you have to be a eqoul producer in the gut" thing is now not a problem anymore, any one can have the benefits of eqoul???

4. Any other products you can take that are S-equol and what is the brand name???

 

[Hoppi]

Hoppi..how about commenting on the other things just mentioned. They may actually make more sense than taking a green tea/probiotic combo and consuming nasty soy products. I see you may actually go the fermented soy route..but still......

Someone needs to tell the "owner" that Asians consume a lot of FERMENTED soy. You could also give him the link to all the Mercola soy articles. Then maybe suggest human strain based probiotics.

Why not take this combo along with it: http://www.triarco.com/industrymanufacturing/studies/study_alphastat.pdf

ha, yeah man I know, I did tell him about the preference of fermented soy but he hasn't done trials with that yet so he isn't sure, but expects the results might not be the same. He himself has been on the regimen for 4 years apparently with no adverse effects but it's.. I believe it stopped his loss.

I might join in this convo at some point but it's a little too in-depth for me at the moment!!

 

[hairrific]

Hoppi..how about commenting on the other things just mentioned. They may actually make more sense than taking a green tea/probiotic combo and consuming nasty soy products. I see you may actually go the fermented soy route..but still......

Someone needs to tell the "owner" that Asians consume a lot of FERMENTED soy. You could also give him the link to all the Mercola soy articles. Then maybe suggest human strain based probiotics.

Why not take this combo along with it: http://www.triarco.com/industrymanufacturing/studies/study_alphastat.pdf

Abstract
Background

Maintaining endogenous testosterone (T) levels as men age may slow the symptoms of sarcopenia, andropause and decline in physical performance. Drugs inhibiting the enzyme 5?-reductase (5AR) produce increased blood levels of T and decreased levels of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). However, symptoms of gynecomastia have been reported due to the aromatase (AER) enzyme converting excess T to estradiol (ES). The carotenoid astaxanthin (AX) from Haematococcus pluvialis, Saw Palmetto berry lipid extract (SPLE) from Serenoa repens and the precise combination of these dietary supplements, Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)), have been reported to have inhibitory effects on both 5AR and AER in-vitro. Concomitant regulation of both enzymes in-vivo would cause DHT and ES blood levels to decrease and T levels to increase. The purpose of this clinical study was to determine if patented Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)) could produce these effects in a dose dependent manner.

http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/12

 

[Hoppi]

So, do we think equol is actually effective when simply taken as a supplement? I was always told that it is ineffective in this form, and one needs to produce it themselves. I'm not quite sure why.

 

[Hoppi]

Well, I've got my Densiti and I get my Florajen soon (for the high probiotics requirements it has). I might go on a bit of a loading dose for a month or so.

I will be doing that as well as collagen rebuilding.

Let's see where this takes me eh?

Equol here we come!!



Oh, on the subject of fermented and non-fermented soy - I intend to switch at some point to fermented or maybe even a daidzein supplement, but all in good time eh?

 

[hairrific]

Inhibiting 5ar is different. I agree that "mopping up" DHT is likely to have significantly fewer side effects than actually reducing 5-alpha reductase.

But you were talking specifically before about sexual side effects: "I don't like the sexual sides of finasteride, and equol sounds like a much healthier alternative." Does anybody really doubt that the lack of DHT is what causes such sexual side effects when you take finasteride? Assuming that that's what really causes it, it shouldn't MATTER whether you take finasteride or equol, as far as sexual side effects are specifically concerned! It doesn't make any difference whether you prevent the DHT from being formed in the first place, or bind another molecule to it after it's formed, making it inert.

It may not be quite as potent, but then I would also imagine it is less likely to make the follicles more sensitive over time, so there are pros and cons to everything in this world

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Disabling a molecule of DHT should have the same effect on hair follicles, regardless of whether you use finasteride or equol.

Bryan, have you seen this and would you mind telling us what you think or make of ALPHASTAT®? Am I understanding that it is Equol??
http://www.triarco.com/industrymanufacturing/studies/study_alphastat.pdf

Also this study: http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/12 Says it lowers Estrogen levels and would not that be opposite of finasteride?

Maintaining endogenous testosterone (T) levels as men age may slow the symptoms of sarcopenia, andropause and decline in physical performance. Drugs inhibiting the enzyme 5?-reductase (5AR) produce increased blood levels of T and decreased levels of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). However, symptoms of gynecomastia have been reported due to the aromatase (AER) enzyme converting excess T to estradiol (ES). The carotenoid astaxanthin (AX) from Haematococcus pluvialis, Saw Palmetto berry lipid extract (SPLE) from Serenoa repens and the precise combination of these dietary supplements, Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)), have been reported to have inhibitory effects on both 5AR and AER in-vitro. Concomitant regulation of both enzymes in-vivo would cause DHT and ES blood levels to decrease and T levels to increase. The purpose of this clinical study was to determine if patented Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)) could produce these effects in a dose dependent manner.

Conclusion

The precise combination of AX and SPLE, Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)), produced significant changes in serum T, DHT and ES levels. A dose of either 800 mg or 2000 mg/day produced significant increases in T and decreases in DHT within three days with no increases in ES. The effect was not dose dependent indicating that the 800 mg/per day dose is as equally effective as 2000 mg/day in the age range of subjects studied. Blood levels of ES also decreased significantly and in a dose dependant manner indicating the 2000 mg/day dose is more effective than the 800 mg/day dose. There were no outward signs of toxicity or adverse reactions. This data provides support for each mechanism of action observed in-vitro and suggests a potential role for its use in aging men experiencing TDS or symptoms of BPH.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, have you seen this and would you mind telling us what you think or make of ALPHASTAT®? Am I understanding that it is Equol??

Yes, I saw that same study a long time ago. No, it's not equol; they clearly state that it's a combination of a carotenoid (astaxanthin) and a Saw Palmetto extract. The product is okay, I suppose, but you should keep in mind that it's not terribly impressive at lowering DHT. The lower dose decreased it only by about 16% or so after 14 days, and the higher dose decreased it by about 27% or so after 14 days. It wouldn't take very much finasteride to do just as well, or better than that. What do you think would be the price difference between those large doses of Alphastat, and a tiny "micro-dose" of finasteride that does the same thing?

Also this study: http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/12 Says it lowers Estrogen levels and would not that be opposite of finasteride?

Yes. Looks like the larger dose of Alphastat lowered estrogen by about 8.4% or so.

 

[dougfunny]

Bryan, have you seen this and would you mind telling us what you think or make of ALPHASTAT®? Am I understanding that it is Equol??

Yes, I saw that same study a long time ago. No, it's not equol; they clearly state that it's a combination of a carotenoid (astaxanthin) and a Saw Palmetto extract. The product is okay, I suppose, but you should keep in mind that it's not terribly impressive at lowering DHT. The lower dose decreased it only by about 16% or so after 14 days, and the higher dose decreased it by about 27% or so after 14 days. It wouldn't take very much finasteride to do just as well, or better than that. What do you think would be the price difference between those large doses of Alphastat, and a tiny "micro-dose" of finasteride that does the same thing?

Also this study: http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/12 Says it lowers Estrogen levels and would not that be opposite of finasteride?

Yes. Looks like the larger dose of Alphastat lowered estrogen by about 8.4% or so.

but Bryan finasteride isn't all natural and wholesome like Equol :gay:

 

[Hoppi]

but Bryan finasteride isn't all natural and wholesome like Equol :gay:

If you really can't see the advantages of equol over finasteride after reading this thread, then I can't help you.

 

[hairrific]

Bryan, have you seen this and would you mind telling us what you think or make of ALPHASTAT®? Am I understanding that it is Equol??

Yes, I saw that same study a long time ago. No, it's not equol; they clearly state that it's a combination of a carotenoid (astaxanthin) and a Saw Palmetto extract. The product is okay, I suppose, but you should keep in mind that it's not terribly impressive at lowering DHT. The lower dose decreased it only by about 16% or so after 14 days, and the higher dose decreased it by about 27% or so after 14 days. It wouldn't take very much finasteride to do just as well, or better than that. What do you think would be the price difference between those large doses of Alphastat, and a tiny "micro-dose" of finasteride that does the same thing?

Also this study: http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/12 Says it lowers Estrogen levels and would not that be opposite of finasteride?

Yes. Looks like the larger dose of Alphastat lowered estrogen by about 8.4% or so.

They say no sides like that in finasteride:

The results of this study indicate that Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)) may help maintain or reverse declining T levels in the aging male by maintaining endogenous T levels and without increasing ES levels. It may also be beneficial in males prone to developing symptoms of BPH due to elevated DHT levels. BPH is regarded as a global health problem in men with approximately 50% of men over age 50 reporting symptoms [9,10]. Alphastat® (Mytosterone(™)) may regulate DHT levels without the side effects of increased ES levels reported with the use of prescription drugs that inhibit 5AR.

 

[Bryan]

That "Alphastat" product doesn't seem to do either one of those things terribly well or very consistently (lower DHT and estrogen). As opposed to these rather dicey herbal products which may or may not work, why not just use patented drugs like finasteride and Arimidex which definitely _do_ work reliably and consistently?

 

[KeepTheHair]

Armidex? Whats that? wtf

 

[Bryan]

Armidex? Whats that? wtf

A prescription aromatase inhibitor. Lowers estrogen.

 

[hairrific]

Well usually I don't go for the herbal stuff because like you say we can get something better and very much more reliable in Rx form that is FDA approved and safe and much more tested.

But I saw this clinical study and that seems to prove its worthiness at least to some degree.

I think there are still many questions:
Does increasing the dosages get us up to finasteride results but without the Estrogen increase that so many are so worried about?

The study was for only 3 months? What about what happens over a coarse of a year or two?

 

[Bryan]

But I saw this clinical study and that seems to prove its worthiness at least to some degree.

I think there are still many questions:
Does increasing the dosages get us up to finasteride results but without the Estrogen increase that so many are so worried about?

Again: even if that were true, what would the price difference be between the Alphastat and some finasteride + Arimidex?

 

[Hoppi]

I started Densiti today! I had 3 capsules just now, a massive pot of live yogurt (with Lactobacillus Acidophilus) and nearly a litre of soymilk lol

A little overkill I know but .. meh I was thirsty

I will get hold of Florajen soon, and Densiti doesn't actually require that much soymilk at all to work, so it should be quite straightforward. I will also be taking lots of supplements for collagen, and I'll see how this goes! ^_^

 

[Jacob]

Why are you so stuck on Florajen? I realize the guy is probably going to sell that along with the Densiti(ha)...but if he can't even understand the soy problem, then why go with his probiotic choice? I know I've listed some other options..others probably have as well.

 

[Hoppi]

I always do like your choice of supplements Jacob, but the thing is that Densiti has actually been shown to be effective in tests, it is actually proven. I am unsure whether other means of getting equol into the body are similarly effective (or more so) but I would be very happy to try them as WELL as Densiti!

Do you feel that if one were to simply get equol into their body (for arguments sake intravenously, just to rule out digestion) it would be just as effective?

Oh, and Florajen is a particularly concentrated source of Acidophilus I think, 20 billion CFUs, much higher than most supplements I've seen (certainly in the UK).

Apologies for being a bit distant during this thread, I will be more attentive now!