EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

[Micky_007]

I agree it's from the developer and we all know oral finasteride is effective. Study is good because of lower dht inhibition in serum.

No we all don't know it's effective. Yes it's effective for some people but the way you say it as if it's effective for everyone, which is far from the case.

https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/merck-shuts-down-propecia-website-23826

"Merck, the manufacturer of the hair loss drug Propecia, has recently shut down their website for Propecia."

"Almost all drugs have some side effects. Yet it is unheard of for the manufacturers of these other drugs to just shut down their site one day. Perhaps with all of the pending and upcoming litigation their legal staff has advised them to minimize communication/information about the product until they can vet all of the language written within the warnings and listed side effects."

 

[Caillou]

It's honestly sad if you take tranny drugs to keep your hair. As someone who experienced psychological side effects on anti-androgens, i would rather be bald than go through that sh*t. No wonder this year and the past year have been the worst so far because i abused anti-androgens throughout them. I don't give a sh*t about my hair anymore if i can get over this sh*t

 

[Caillou]

Antipsychotic-Like Properties of 5-α-Reductase Inhibitors - Neuropsychopharmacology

Recent evidence indicates that neuroactive steroids may participate in the pathogenesis of schizophrenia spectrum disorders, yet the mechanisms of this involvement are elusive. As 5-α-reductase (5AR) is the rate-limiting enzyme of one of the two major metabolic pathways in brain steroidogenesis...

www.nature.com

Antipsychotic-Like Properties of 5-α-Reductase Inhibitors​

Recent evidence indicates that neuroactive steroids may participate in the pathogenesis of schizophrenia spectrum disorders, yet the mechanisms of this involvement are elusive. As 5-α-reductase (5AR) is the rate-limiting enzyme of one of the two major metabolic pathways in brain steroidogenesis, we investigated the effects of its blockade in several rat models of psychotic-like behavior. The 5AR inhibitor finasteride (finasteride, 60 or 100 mg/kg, intraperitoneal, i.p.) dose- and time-dependently antagonized prepulse inhibition (PPI) deficits induced by apomorphine (APO, 0.25 mg/kg, subcutaneous, s.c.) and d-amphetamine (AMPH, 5 mg/kg, s.c.), in a manner analogous to haloperidol (HAL, 0.1 mg/kg, i.p.) and clozapine (CLO, 5 mg/kg, i.p.). Similar results were observed with the other 5AR inhibitors dutasteride (dutasteride, 40 or 80 mg/kg, i.p.) and SKF 105111 (30 mg/kg, i.p.). finasteride (60 or 100 mg/kg, i.p.) also reduced hyperlocomotion induced by AMPH (1 or 3 mg/kg, s.c.) and attenuated stereotyped behaviors induced by APO (0.25 mg/kg, s.c.). Nevertheless, finasteride (100 mg/kg, i.p.) did not reverse the PPI disruption induced by the N-methyl-d-aspartate receptor antagonist dizocilpine (0.1 mg/kg, s.c.). finasteride (60–300 mg/kg, i.p.) induced no catalepsy in either the bar test or the paw test. Our results suggest that 5AR inhibitors elicit antipsychotic-like effects in animals and may be proposed as a putative novel target in the management of psychotic disorders.

Thanks to the user @jake_b

They're probably antipsychotic because they kill your neurosteroids and masculine spirit so much that your brain doesn't even have enough creativity or power to project psychosis anymore

 

[Stating facts]

No one has to even read the posts but just looking at the pictures of your hair you posted was definitely not some advanced stage of hairloss, your hairline was intact similar to NW1 and you only had a bit of shedding.

You fail to realize that you can have even what is considered high standard double blind studies but the results can still be manipulated and falsified. That is exactly how so many drugs are passed by the FDA to market, as the 4th leading cause of death in the United States is due to prescribed medication.

Surely if that's the case then the drugs being passed by the FDA are seriously questionable. But don't take my word for it:

here's a piece from Harvard about FDA:

Risky Drugs: Why The FDA Cannot Be Trusted

by Donald W. Light A forthcoming article for the special issue of the Journal of Law, Medicine and Ethics (JLME), edited by Marc Rodwin and supported by the Edmond J. Safra Center for Ethics, presents evidence that about 90 percent of all new drugs approved by the FDA over the past 30 years are...

ethics.harvard.edu

"The bar for “safe” is equally low, and over the past 30 years, approved drugs have caused an epidemic of harmful side effects, even when properly prescribed. Every week, about 53,000 excess hospitalizations and about 2400 excess deaths occur in the United States among people taking properly prescribed drugs to be healthier.


Prescription drugs are the 4th leading cause of death.


This evidence indicates why we can no longer trust the FDA to carry out its historic mission to protect the public from harmful and ineffective drugs. Strong public demand that government “do something” about periodic drug disasters has played a central role in developing the FDA.2 Yet close, constant contact by companies with FDA staff and officials has contributed to vague, minimal criteria of what “safe” and “effective” mean."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/health/fda-approval-drug-events-study/index.html

Serious Risks And Few New Benefits From FDA-Approved Drugs | Health Affairs Blog

Let's look at the Food and Drug Administration’s failure to protect the 170 million Americans who take prescription drugs from adverse reactions that are killing more than 2,400 people every week. Annually, prescription drugs cause over 81 million adverse reactions and result in 2.7 million...

www.healthaffairs.org

Misplaced Trust: Why FDA Approval Doesn’t Guarantee Drug Safety

Americans trust that drugs approved by the FDA are safe, but this is not always the case. We hear from advocate Kim Witczak, who lost her husband in 2003.

www.drugwatch.com

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is supposed to protect Americans from harmful drugs. But in reality, FDA-approval does not guarantee safety. Critics say Big Pharma funds FDA reviews of new drugs, creating a conflict of interest. The agency is too focused on approving drugs to appease Big Pharma and it lacks the proper authority and funding to protect the public"

Like I always say, Big Pharma secretly funds trials. It's pretty obvious the FDA can't be trusted as well as those pro-Finasteride studies which can easily be secretly funded by Big Pharma, especially when theres so many studies that prove completely opposite results showing how bad Finasteride truly can be.

Even Merck themselves admit not knowing what the long term effects are for younger men in their official FDA approval letter:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409709906664464385

Then you talk about Kevin Mann who also claimed to have sides on Finasteride but didn't admit it on his YouTube Channel until he was called out about it yet he calls DHT a trash hormone. Go to any endocrinologist and tell that DHT is a trash hormone in men and record their reaction. Lol

Thank you for sharing this, again I am never dissappointed when I visit this thread. The research being shared on this thread is amazing and people (specially late teens and early 20s) should definitely read this thread before starting finasteride.

Seroiusly, there is NEXT to NO research done on finasteride (which prove it as a safe drug) other than anecdotes in the year old papers.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Horror story right here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tressless/comments/qwc8va

TLDR: I think finasteride caused some serious issues with my eyes, and I want this community to know what I've found regarding dry eyes as a finasteride side effect.

I’m a healthy 23 year old male. My hairline started receeding slowly as a teen. When I was 20 I hopped on finasteride and had great success.

My temples regrew quite a bit, my hair got fuller, and I didn't notice any side effects for two years.

In February of this year I was diagnosed with MGD and Dry Eye Disease. The oil-producing glands in my eyelids have mostly atrophied and died off. This means my eyes are chronically painful, itchy, and dry. It's hell.

I've had two corrective surgeries this month, which cost me ~$15k out of pocket. Neither medical insurance nor eye insurance would cover it.

To give you an idea of how bad my condition is, most people suffering from this condition are 65+ and still don't have as much gland atrophy as I do.

I've been out of work. I'm a software engineer by trade, and can no longer stare at screens for more than a couple minutes, let alone 8 hrs a day.

After almost a year of trying to figure out what's been causing it, I've found some scientific literature that points to finasteride as a likely cause. I stopped taking it a week ago, and now the chronic inflammation I’ve had in my eyes for the past year has all but disappeared.

Do what you will with this information. I'm not here to scare you all away from finasteride, but please, if you notice your eyes getting dry, go see an optometrist and ask them to check out your meibomian glands. If there's anything wrong with them, try quitting finasteride. Your eyes are more important than your hairline.

If I had known finasteride was a culprit, I would have stopped taking it a while ago. Now I’ve almost lost my career and done irreversible damage to my eye health.

Some of the studies he points too:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/cxo.12147

Effect of Androgen Deficiency on the Human Meibomian Gland and Ocular Surface1

The purpose of this study was to determine whether the chronic use of antiandrogen medications leads to meibomian gland dysfunction, altered lipid profiles

academic.oup.com

Even I wasn't aware of the possible effects of AA's on the eyes....

Great advice......I didnt read it obviously as finasteride has made me blind but thanks for sharing .

 

[20YearsOnFin]

"your best bet is to not take 5α-reductase inhibitors. It’s a gamble that’s not worth it"

He is a 100% right. But its the own individuals health they are gambling with. So for people who want to bet against hair loss, and feel they have a chance of winning its always going to be one wager that people are queuing up to place.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

"DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No."

However people want to word it and construct a theory is up to them, but trying to suggest that being on 5-Ari's for 10-20 years+ is not the reason that people have been able to maintain a Norwood 2 without proggresing to a Norwood 4-5 is almost as thin as the authors own hair.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Another interesting article by some bodybuilder/scientist

Nobody could accuse your trolling of lacking a sense of humor.......I like it....keep it up .

I cant wait for next week's article where you start quoting a taxi driver.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Again with your weak attempts to dismiss an article that doesn't fit your narrative. How new and exciting...

Same old, same old.....I don't have a narrative, im not trying to prove anything to anyone, i don't care what anyone takes or doesnt take. All i can do is vouch for is what has been successful for me.

You guys are the ones trying to prove 5-ari's are poison and don't work...and that you can get the same results from that crap you rub into your hair.

His article is full of sources and references to medical studies.

What is the point of it all though? If you ask me

"Are 5-ari's effective in arresting proggressive male pattern baldness?"

Before i read his article based on my personal experience the answer is yes.

after ive skimmed through his arcticle my answer is exacty the same.

So how does anything you have posted change my views or results?

 

[20YearsOnFin]

We also know the source of your fina coping posts itt though, your butthurt

Do you understand what hypocrisy means?

Who is the more butthurt here?


The guy who tries to save his hair through 5-ari use, fails, and then spends the next four years, posting 4000 posts & articles trying to prove they are poison and trying to convince anybody and everybody not to take them and instead rub snake oil into their scalp....and is surprise surprise is still losing his hair.


Or the guy who has taken them for 20 years with good results, without side effects, and thinks what treatments people choose to take is up to them.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

At least you still have your sense of humour to laugh at my post's , im glad you find the truth and your own predicament amusing.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Sure my old friend, if you're so happy with your results why are you spamming itt? Come on now, we all know you're butthurt about the truth of fina, look how butthurt you get when I post something here.

And again with your false assumptions and projection. Amusing though I must say but hey keep up with your long term hormone treatment, an old man like you doesn't need his dick anyway. So good for you old man, good for you.

You reply almost exacty the same as this every single reply... you might aswell just code a spam bot to do the work for you.

Can't promise I'll read all of your senile drivel though.

Ive already told you many times I don't read your posts completely... why would I? It's always the same lame put downs....why don't you come up with something original to say back?

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Do you work for a company called butthurt, that pays you $5 everytime you mention their name?

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Sure my old friend, if you're so happy with your results why are you spamming itt?

Boredom from lockdown, theres only so much lego and video games you can play before you need to argue with somebody.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

The irony, I'm posting new articles and studies meanwhile your only rebuttal is "bu..bu... I took fina for 20 years" You bring zero rational arguments and admit not reading any of the scientific articles or studies.

I 100% agree. But you and Micky_007 both keep mistaking me for somebody that is trying to have an argument or is trying to defend a position. I am already well aware of both sides of the debate, why would I be interested in trying to change your minds?

What could I even actualy say to somebody that has experienced serious lasting sides that will alter their view?

All I am doing is killing time during corona, trolling back trolls who think finasteride makes you blind or that zix works better than 5-ari's at arresting male pattern baldness.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

I never said zix is better than fina or duta for hairloss, obviously those meds work better.

Anyway, good we agree on something.

Ok, no problem, For the most part I actually agree with your stance on the sides. I have never taken a distain to what you are trying to say,

Its more the way, and why you are trying to say it.

For me this has never been about finasteride.

 

[Micky_007]

Another interesting article by some bodybuilder/scientist about DHT:

Area-1255

Area-1255; a blog tackling the latest issues in the Internet 'Underground', we also write & publish guides on Computer Security topics, and we have a few different contributors who post some of their favorite achievements. Enjoy.

area1255.blogspot.com

Many bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts are going to be thrilled to find out how exactly DHT works in the Brain. What does it do for us there ? Is it really responsible for libido, and if so, what other chemicals does it affect? This article aims to surpass and explain the general knowledge floating around on the Internet and on Forums. I am not a doctor, but I have compiled a nice bunch of references and studies to cite the foundation of this article. I also will explain briefly (an estimate) how someone would feel based on the relative changes due to DHT - discussed in this article.

First off, a basic explanation of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone); it is an androgen (male sex hormone), like Testosterone, which rather than promoting the growth of muscle mass directly (tissue-acting), it acts via intracellular (in the cell) mechanisms to increase strength and metabolism. DHT is not very anabolic, but it is Androgenic, and thus meaning, it promotes masculine characteristics (such as a deeper voice, and growth of facial hair, body hair etc) (1). DHT has a bad rap, since it has been claimed to cause an enlarged prostate, but if you follow the source, *most* of the studies saying this are linked to pharmaceutical promotion of their anti-prostate, anti-Male drug, Finasteride (Propecia) and Dustasteride(2) (3). DHT has also been claimed to cause your hair follicles to become thin, and your hair - subsequently falls out. No. Just No. DHT has been implicated as a factor at most, more studies show that more specifically it is Zinc deficiency AND genetics that provoke male pattern baldness (4)(5). Although Zinc deficiency causes the rise of DHT levels, it also causes increases in prolactin, and estrogen, thus the real problem here *could* have to do with either of those hormones. Just to clarify, Anti-ESTROGEN drugs have been used recently to treat prostate enlargement (BPH), and they are very successful, with less side-effects(6) (7) (8) (9). So if they were wrong about DHT causing prostate enlargement, maybe they were wrong about DHT and hair loss too.

DHT - HOW IT AFFECTS THE BRAIN - AND NERVOUS SYSTEM


But anyway, we got carried away. Let's go on to discuss DHT's effects in the Brain.
DHT has pronounced effects on neurochemistry (it affects neurotransmitters in the brain). DHT has been shown to increase circulating epinephrine levels (adrenaline), this can cause anxiety in predisposed individuals, however, most of the time, this is not the case, since DHT also increases GABA activity in the brain, which is relaxing (10) (11) (12). So in other words, DHT should promote A focused, calm burst of energy, which is what many users of DHT-based steroids, report as the "alpha-male" feeling (13) (14). Dihydrotestosterone increase central and nervous system energy production by increasing not just adrenaline, but cyclic AMP (15). This molecule increase thermogenesis (fat-burning and heat production)(16). Cyclic AMP facilitates the conversion of TSH thyroid hormone, to T4, a more potent thyroid hormone, thus, indirectly, DHT increases thyroid function (by increasing cyclic AMP) (17).

So seeing all this, DHT definitely acts as a nervous system stimulant, and a metabolic "probe", it also increases GABA. Second to this though, it could indirectly decrease serotonin or serotonin receptors; since DHT antagonizes estrogen activity, and estrogen helps maintain the expression of serotonin receptors in the brain(18) (19). This is also consistent with DHT being shown to stop estrogen induced prolactin release(20).
This is part of the reason behind using DHT Gel to treat gynecomasita. Clearly DHT has anti-depressant effects, since Finasteride causes depression (21) and also based on the above mentioned activity of DHT in the brain. It gives energy, it gives focus, it gives aggression.

DHT also improves spatial working memory(22), according to some studies, by altering NMDA-receptors(23) (namely increasing), and by improving Calcium-induced acetylcholine release & function in the hippocampus(24)(25); a very important area of the brain involved in memory formation and spatial (directional) memory.

DHT also decreases glutamate levels and excitory outputs through other mechanisms (26) (27) (28).


Finally, Dihydrotestosterone, or it's metabolite 3-alpha-Diol; downregulate alpha-adrenergic receptor distribution, leading to more inhibitory adrenergic (adrenaline influence)(29) (30) (31). For those who don't know, adrenaline can activate an 'alpha receptor' - which stimulates the nervous system, vasoconstricting blood vessels and arteries, raising blood pressure, or it can activate a beta-adrenergic receptor, generally vasodilating artieries, but yet, increasing heart contractile force. This all might just be another result or a reflection of what is mentioned above, that DHT increases epinephrine, GABA, and cyclic AMP. However, in a separate study, Testosterone (without specificity), had upregulated alpha-1-receptors to protect the heart against ischemia(32). Is this an effect of Testosterone or it's metabolites though. Likely, it doesn't matter, it was probably case coincidental, but may indicate that if blood pressure falls too low, Testosterone can increase it to maintain homeostasis.

In yet another study however, DHT has been shown to increase alpha-1-adrenergic expression, whereas Estrogen decreased the expression/density(33).
This again reflects the need for DHT and Estrogen to be kept in balance, as both promote vasodilation through different pathways, however, since Alpha-1-receptors are incredibly potent Vasoconstrictors, DHT + an OVERALL deficiency in nitric oxide may actually promote high blood pressure, especially in coordination with estrogen deficiency. Interestingly, Alpha-1-receptor activation may increase serotonin activity at the 5-HT1A receptor(34)(35), this is an auto-receptor that ironically seems to possess anxiolytic (serotonin-typical) effects. 5-HT1A activation has shown to help social anxiety disorder, but worsen anticipation anxieties(36)(37).
In another study, DHT/Androgens also facilitated serotonin 5-HT1A/1B agonist-decreases in aggression, which is controversial, although it appears that estrogen allows for intermale aggression by downregulating serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity(38)(39). Thus DHT's only pro-aggressive propertly lies in it's adrenaline promoting effect, and not with serotonin.



OTHER CENTRAL AND MOLECULAR CHANGES INDUCED BY DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE

1. Dihydrotestosterone appears to strongly increase MAPK; Mitogen-Activated-Protein-Kinase - this leads to a plethora of central and molecular changes as well as genomic/expressional changes(40)(41).
2. This action further reinforces and validates DHT's suppressive effects on serotonin systems (42) since activating MAPK leads to increased serotonin transporter (SERT) activity - an effect directly opposite of SSRI's (43) (44) (45)

So DHT via multiple pathways increases nervous system strength, DHT increases epinephrine levels, decreases prolactin (assuming you have enough dopamine production as well), increases GABA, may decrease serotonin and serotonin receptors. All-round this means DHT has positive effects on your chemistry and nerve cells. By reducing prolactin, and estrogen, and subsequently serotonin, and also regulating catecholamines, by this, DHT can definitely increase libido, and alleviate sexual anxiety in most individuals by increasing GABA. DHT is key to many of Testosterone's brain benefits. Keep in mind though, despite positive effects on brain chemistry, this still doesn't give an excuse to OD on aromatase inhibitors, likely, because you need a little bit of estrogen (not much at all), to promote nNOS (neuronal nitric oxide synthase) production. So DHT serves as a great compliment to a little bit of brain estradiol, and a great ratio of DHT to estrogen means optimal sex drive, stamina, charisma and general masculinity.


Let's summarize in Bullets Here.

• DHT regulates alpha and beta adrenergic receptors.
• DHT may increase alpha-1-receptor density.
• DHT may decrease glutamate activity and increases mGLU7 expression (which increases GABA release)
• DHT increases serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density by influencing A1-Adr.Receptors.
• DHT promotes serotonin 5-HT1A/1B activity and may reduce aggression in the presence of serotonin. Although this may easily be over ridden by the pro-adrenergic effects of DHT.
• DHT increases beta-endorphin release by ^ 5-HT1A receptor indirect activation.
• DHT facilitates the release of Epinephrine (adrenaline).
• DHT increases cyclic AMP.
• DHT blocks estrogen-induced prolactin release.
• DHT reduces serotonin and serotonin receptors by inhibiting estrogen influence in the Brain. (but mainly acting to oppose 5-HT2A,2C and 5-HT4 receptors)
• DHT increases Mitogen-Activated-Protein Kinase (MAPK) which leads to a variety of molecular changes and genomic changes as well as neural-changes; decreased serotonin activity in the brain and periphery.
• DHT increases GABA and GABA-A (neurosteroid-specific) receptor expression.
• DHT increases NMDA-receptors in the Hippocampus.
• DHT increases Ca3 (Calcium) evoked Acetylcholine Function(AcH release).
• DHT increases nervous system strength and regulates blood pressure.

Very interesting! Thanks for always sharing these new studies and information Pigeon, it's very much appreciated!

 

[20YearsOnFin]

i dont believe in right or wrong or that theres an absolute way of doing these things, so when i see guys trying to argue otherwise or telling people what they can or can't do, its like listening to advice from these guys.

 

[20YearsOnFin]

Pigeon is a man carrying a wheel barrow, he is trying to argue "only his way is right" and that everyone "will learn the hard way" if they dont do what he says.

But he ignores the facts that people have been using these things long before he came along and they don't need his permision or guidance to decide what's the best option for themselves.

 

[kidcurry96]

Susceptibility to 5ar inhibitor varies. On tressless and discord I see guys having taken .6 mg finasteride weekly get sides whereas guys taking 1 mg dutasteride everyday are fine. IDK if there is anyway to predict who gets sides and who does not. All we can do is hope for minimal DHT inhibition which SHOULD limit sides but again we do not know. Some guys have tried various low doses and still get sides, some try lower does and do not...