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you should probably stop the Bi-estro since it contains a weaker estrogen that competes for receptor binding
Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
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my chest hair was falling out when i was using the gel, ive been using estrofem since sometime in Nov If Im remembering right. guess it takes more time in certain places and to overrun the minoxidil.
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In that case shouldn't I stop even Estrogel since it may compete with Daro for receptor binding? Also the days I used the unheated Daro, I didn't use Estrogel until like the fourth day.
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Daro attaches to androgen receptor not the estrogen receptor. you should use daro and estrogel but never estriol.
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What do you guys think about the correlation between low testosterone and hair loss? You think it only affects body hair ou it could harm head hair?
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That's an interesting point to notice. I've been reading about that lately.
Like if there's more testosterone, there's less DHT, and more DHT would mean less testosterone?
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It depends on someones levels of other enzymes throughout the body, the amount of body fat and the amount of aromatase. T can really go both ways, turn into either Dht or E. hopefully its E by the time it gets to the scalp but the problem is that our scalp is a source of 5ar. its a very local problem. So in theory even a small amount of T which makes it to the scalp could turn to Dht and cause high Dht in the scalp. but of course if your lower T very extremely, then you also lower the frequency of instances of T reaching the scalp and the amount of Dht cause maybe there will be less T reaching the scalp than the amount of 5ar in the scalp. dutasteride reduces plasma 5ar by 94% but I fear that much of the 6% left over is in our follicles.
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http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=93201
I used bi-estro (which had estriol in it) and I had thickening. But the ESTRADIOL in it gave me side effects.
Now I am trying estriol alone to see if it can do something.
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im glad it works for you but some of us may need something stronger. It doesn't make much sense to me to use both at the same time since estriol might already be occupying the scalp each application so the estradiol goes systematic right after.
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It doesn't work for me (yet). I just linked you a 7 year old thread of some guy who tried it and reported good results, so all I'm saying is that it's not clear-cut whether it's going to hurt or help the hair. I'll try it for a while and report back.
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I was talking about the bi-estro cause you said you had thickening
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Ah OK. Yes it did seem to work fairly well but had to quit due to sides.
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how bad were the sides?
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Nipples bloating and burning, tanking libido, etc.
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its about the same as my last update but the hairs are a little longer
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hello everyone, a few things have been on my mind. I am wondering how much of this is from the oral minoxidil, my hair is really dense and I am worried that someday i may get synchronized sheds or minoxidil dependence. I know that the minoxidil and the estradiol are both having effects, its kinda weird and cool how i get more body hair on some places for awhile until the estrogen catches up, like right now my arm is hairier because of minoxidil but recently I've been losing hair specifically on my hands, my upper arms are getting fuzzy but my leg hair is falling out. Ive been taking the 10mg only one time per day but its still a high dose and having effect despite its short half life. I know that minoxidil decreases collagen production so I don't think that I want to use it forever if possible.
I realize also that there are trans mtf's on full trans regimens who although get dramatic regrowth and improvement still have much trouble with the problem areas like the temples! I'm wondering if i will need to go stronger, it seems my temples are narrowing in towards the center but still the center is the slowest to improve and most stubborn, it looks better up close but still looks bare from a distance and it is bothering me.
I know i've improved alot and should be grateful but I want more and more and I'm hoping most of it is not because of the initial minoxidil growth. So,
I will be reducing the amount of oral minoxidil to 10mg every other day which I'm nervous about but I'm going on a stronger antiandrogen regimen today. I don't give a f*** about sides anymore, my dick still works that's all that matters, I want my goddamn youth back!
I'm restarting cypro 50mg everyday, i will use the rest of the 104 pills I have left. I will start using topical estrogel again at 2.25mg along with 2mg buccal estrofem, I'm still on .5mg dutasteride everyday. also I will be using Nizoral 2%, I don't know if it will help but If I'm going to wash my hair at all I want to at least wash it with something that might help it and won't hurt and i think keto shampoo has the most science behind it as far as shampoos go. I dont have a schedule for nizoral, just whenever i feel like washing my hair.
I realize also that there are trans mtf's on full trans regimens who although get dramatic regrowth and improvement still have much trouble with the problem areas like the temples! I'm wondering if i will need to go stronger, it seems my temples are narrowing in towards the center but still the center is the slowest to improve and most stubborn, it looks better up close but still looks bare from a distance and it is bothering me.
I know i've improved alot and should be grateful but I want more and more and I'm hoping most of it is not because of the initial minoxidil growth. So,
I will be reducing the amount of oral minoxidil to 10mg every other day which I'm nervous about but I'm going on a stronger antiandrogen regimen today. I don't give a f*** about sides anymore, my dick still works that's all that matters, I want my goddamn youth back!
I'm restarting cypro 50mg everyday, i will use the rest of the 104 pills I have left. I will start using topical estrogel again at 2.25mg along with 2mg buccal estrofem, I'm still on .5mg dutasteride everyday. also I will be using Nizoral 2%, I don't know if it will help but If I'm going to wash my hair at all I want to at least wash it with something that might help it and won't hurt and i think keto shampoo has the most science behind it as far as shampoos go. I dont have a schedule for nizoral, just whenever i feel like washing my hair.
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I don’t want to scare you, but I got amazing regrowth in the non-androgen affected areas at first too which has no lasted, and I do indeed have synchronised growth. It’s heart breaking. I can say for me that diane35 never helped, but since you’re a man and you say you don’t care about the sides, it’s something that you could try if you wanted full mtf trans style HRT. Otherwise you would have to take 4mg estradiol twice daily with 100mg progesterone which is also a full blown trans regimen. I’d also like to say that for me, CPA and spironolactone have been ineffective, and daily 0.5mg + Diane seems to be doing diddly squat. 3 weeks on darolutamide and sh*t ain’t looking any better. So far the only thing to regrow my hair HEAPS Initislly was minoxidil. I’ll also point out that, as it’s effectiveness wears off each time during the “recession” part of the synchronisation period, my legs hairs stop growing, then my arms, then facial hair. The only new hairs I have growing out the top of my head are miniturised at this point. My hairline is receding fast. All this despite all my hardcore treatments. I think minoxidil gives false hope initially. Now I have none. Seems to work really well for some people, and honestly I’ve never heard of the kind of bizarre whole body hair growth synchronisation thing with anyone else (mind you, my whole body hair was affected by low estrogen/Androgenetic Alopecia). Now I’m stuck because if I come off, I potentially have irreversible loss without hope of regrowth, and being on it, I only get regrowth for like 3months out of th year which slowly dissipates over the next 6-8 months.
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i knew you took spironolactone, but did you ever take cypro for an extanded period?
3 weeks is not much time, sometimes these things take years for maximum effect, except for minoxidil which is fastest but not best long term.
most trans dont even take that high amount.
Im not a strong believer that diane is better than estradiol. it doesnt inhibit 5ar like estradiol does and the vast increase in Shbg could be what fucks people up.
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I have tried CPA before at 25mg and it was the same as spironolactone for me. Nada.
True, three weeks on daro is early. I guess I’m pessemisitc because even on Diane + avodart + minoxidil things didn’t get better, plus the spironolactone and CPA too. Things just look worse from day to day which is very disheartening.
I actually think I do agree with you about Diane. My experience with it purely as an HRT, forget the hair stuff, has been bad. Before I began taking avodart, I got constant bleeding non stop for almost 2.5 years being on it. That’s because the progesterone to estrogen ratio is off. Too much P for the amount of E, even though it’s a huge dose of E. Avodart I think solved that issue by elevating E levels even more perhaps, but nevertheless is didn’t help my hair. I don’t know if you ever read that article I posted about low local estrogen and hairloss (particularly at the hairline), but basically it was stating that no matter how many 5AR’s and AAs you take, you need sufficient follicular estrogen to support hair growth otherwise the other treatments tend to fail especially in women. SO maybe it’s the case that high doses or 17-b/17-a estradiol NOT ethylestradiol with high doses of progesterone that is best. I’m so so close to goIng all out and doing a 10mg/100mg E2/progesterone change over from Diane, even though it’s still a huge drop in estrogen.
Also I was reading that mtf are prescribed UP TO 8mg E a day. That’s the max, end point dose. Usually it’s 2.5 a day, 4 a day, etc, working up.