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Interesting. Maybe only spironolactone has these fatigue sides but it definitely did for me. I won't touch cyproterone so that leaves me with bica or upping my medroxy if needed but I don't believe I need an AA.
Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.
- Thread starter bridgeburn
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The thing is I was on Spironolactone 200mg a while ago and some of my side effects were actually more severe than with CPA or Bica even though it’s a weaker drug. I don’t think I was consistently working out when I was on spironolactone so strength is harder to judge but my sexual side effects were worse and I needed to pee so much.
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Yeah that’s not bad compared to what I’m paying right now. I know you can get Buserelin from OTC for around $40 a month. Everything I’m taking right now costs around $140 monthly. If I were to drop bica and CPA for one of these it would actually be cheaper. My current plan is to stay on Bicalutamide and just add estrogen though since I know that Bicalutamide is doing something and I don’t want to change too much at once. How dangerous and sustainable would it be to try androgen deprivation without estrogen?This is where I get mine from, £60 a month isn't cheap, but if you have a job it's not so bad. I'm on the 10.8 version, which works out to be more, but it's more convenient to do it every 3 months instead of every month. it's only been 6 days since starting, so not much to report yetZoladex 3.6mg Depot (Goserelin Acetate) - 3.6mg (1 Syringe) - United Pharmacies (UK)
Zoladex 3.6mg Depot (Goserelin Acetate) is an antitumor hormone drug that is used in such cases as hormone-dependent prostate cancer, hormone-dependent breast cancer in women during the reproductive period or in perimenopause, endometriosis, uterine fibroids (in combination with surgical...www.unitedpharmacies-uk.md
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Personally I haven't been in a state of hormone deprivation, aside from when my e2 gets low, when I feel weak and depressed. I imagine total deprivation would be worse. You could always try it, and add e2 if you end up feeling terrible
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Hair-wise? Not good. I don't think you can can grow cosmetically significant hair without estrogen. Otherwise, it is always, eh. It's the thickening that goes unnoticed.
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Hair Progress Pics. I don't like how it is too blown up but these actually look better in real life. I am for a male I would say, very close to having a full male-ish head of hair. Now how like that stage lasts I do not know but generally on transition timelines there is an appearance of softening and thickening and as it reaches a length where it can frame my face, I will maybe have to make a decision but right now, Janey still wows with the wig. I tried to take some pics from on top and none of them came out but it is almost entirely filled in in the crown for the first time in 36 years. There is an imperceptible here, sort of blondish undercoat that I can see coming in that gives me confidence that this is going to happen for me just as I hoped/planned for over six years. But it still is almost identically in the middle between balding and regrowth in terms of direction. The hairline keeps sort of rolling forward together band like so the whole process is so subtle and it is easy to miss.
Hair progress pictures.
Hair progress pictures.
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There's a lot of broscience in these posts, which is fine, and much of it is good information, but this is just way off base. That study is referring to a single gene, and Androgenetic Alopecia is polygenic. It's actually closer to 80% genetic.
Genetic prediction of male pattern baldness - PMC
Male pattern baldness can have substantial psychosocial effects, and it has been phenotypically linked to adverse health outcomes such as prostate cancer and cardiovascular disease. We explored the genetic architecture of the trait using data from ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
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It's just that baldness is highly sexually dimorphic among whites which is tied to genetics.There's a lot of broscience in these posts, which is fine, and much of it is good information, but this is just way off base. That study is referring to a single gene, and Androgenetic Alopecia is polygenic. It's actually closer to 80% genetic.
Genetic prediction of male pattern baldness - PMC
Male pattern baldness can have substantial psychosocial effects, and it has been phenotypically linked to adverse health outcomes such as prostate cancer and cardiovascular disease. We explored the genetic architecture of the trait using data from ...
It's tied to genes that upregulate AR expression, and downregulate Wnts. Environmental factors are quite small, and mostly limited to early onset of hair loss and increased severity. Women have hair loss too, it's just not as severe because they have less DHT and more estrogen.
GWAS for male-pattern baldness identifies 71 susceptibility loci explaining 38% of the risk - Nature Communications
Male pattern baldness (MBP) is a complex trait that has genetic associations. Here, Pirastu and colleagues perform a genome-wide association study to show 71 susceptibility loci associated with MBP — 30 of which are novel — and that these loci can explain 38% of heritability.
www.nature.com
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Yes but beyond that, when we talk about goddess-like tresses or I guess that's a loaded term but beautiful long flowing and growing hair like a goddess is something beyond all white males except for Brad Pitt, maybe Jeff Bridges a couple of times. The things are connected, the quality and count and anagen aspects. That's why its beyond some without enough estrogen. Now where Brad Pitt hair comes from originally, I don't know what allowed him to maintain hair like that.It's tied to genes that upregulate AR expression, and downregulate Wnts. Environmental factors are quite small, and mostly limited to early onset of hair loss and increased severity. Women have hair loss too, it's just not as severe because they have less DHT and more estrogen.
GWAS for male-pattern baldness identifies 71 susceptibility loci explaining 38% of the risk - Nature Communications
Male pattern baldness (MBP) is a complex trait that has genetic associations. Here, Pirastu and colleagues perform a genome-wide association study to show 71 susceptibility loci associated with MBP — 30 of which are novel — and that these loci can explain 38% of heritability.
I had super thick hair throughout most of my 20s. Asian men have thick hair all their lives due to a mutation in the EDAR gene. It's not that men are supposed to go bald and women aren't, and it's not about your diet or whether or not you smoke. There are men who have thicker hair than women because they have good hair genes. If your genes are good enough then it doesn't matter what sex you are because it doesn't take much DHT to cause hair loss if your AR is highly sensitive.
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Of course, these are all generalizations. Siberians, male and female tend to have perfect oval band locks. But for whites:
Perfect hair for a male and then perfect hair for "his" female self, and somehow, the female hair is still slightly nicer/better/prettier. But the answer is not in thickness; there the male might have the better, there is simply an overall balance to the female hair that perfects it. Interesting to see facial issues with great hair so we all have our battles to be trite.
Perfect hair for a male and then perfect hair for "his" female self, and somehow, the female hair is still slightly nicer/better/prettier. But the answer is not in thickness; there the male might have the better, there is simply an overall balance to the female hair that perfects it. Interesting to see facial issues with great hair so we all have our battles to be trite.
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no, that's what I was getting at, the idea of better because it came up on Friday, I think with the before and after pics of a transguy, sort of thicker vs. nicer. There is a sort of classical idea of female hair beauty and obviously, I am way too compulsive about comparing beautiful heads of hair. But there is context too and given that I have no beard, I can't go for that scruffy kind of dangerous guy any longer.
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@Jacob Williams you seem to have a good understanding about antiandrogen medications for the most part and seem to know the risks. I just encourage you to actually get your blood levels checked for hormone levels. This isn't the type of thing that you can go by how you feel. Also, I think you should maybe give treatment more time before changing. Frequently changing treatments can cause sheds.
As for antigonadotropins (as opposed to blockers), you could try progesterone, though I believe that it can't be taken orally because it can't go through liver. A lot of trans woman use a rectal suppository of progesterone, though I think injections would work too if you don't want to stick stuff up your bum. Theoretically, once you are an a large dose of E2, the estrogen will suppress your T levels and cause your testes to shutdown
Theoretically once your T levels reach near-zero, you wouldn't need any blockers or 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, but even after testicular shutdown there will be some small amount of T produced in the adrenal glands. This usually isn't a problem, but if you have some type of crazy overexpression of ARs, who knows. Just be aware that having zero testosterone at all is usually not good, even women need small amounts for normal physiological functioning
As for antigonadotropins (as opposed to blockers), you could try progesterone, though I believe that it can't be taken orally because it can't go through liver. A lot of trans woman use a rectal suppository of progesterone, though I think injections would work too if you don't want to stick stuff up your bum. Theoretically, once you are an a large dose of E2, the estrogen will suppress your T levels and cause your testes to shutdown
Theoretically once your T levels reach near-zero, you wouldn't need any blockers or 5-alpha reductase inhibitors, but even after testicular shutdown there will be some small amount of T produced in the adrenal glands. This usually isn't a problem, but if you have some type of crazy overexpression of ARs, who knows. Just be aware that having zero testosterone at all is usually not good, even women need small amounts for normal physiological functioning
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Nice review. Any idea how much is commonly used rectally? @Bridgburn used to cycle.
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I posted that one article yesterday and those folks were only on .625mg premarin and suppressing testosterone and I was on a similar typical dose that was not suppressing testosterone so it depends on a variety of factors.
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It's tied to genes that upregulate AR expression, and downregulate Wnts. Environmental factors are quite small, and mostly limited to early onset of hair loss and increased severity. Women have hair loss too, it's just not as severe because they have less DHT and more estrogen.
GWAS for male-pattern baldness identifies 71 susceptibility loci explaining 38% of the risk - Nature Communications
Male pattern baldness (MBP) is a complex trait that has genetic associations. Here, Pirastu and colleagues perform a genome-wide association study to show 71 susceptibility loci associated with MBP — 30 of which are novel — and that these loci can explain 38% of heritability.
I am no longer of the belief that DHT is even close to 50% of the cause for most types of even patterned hair loss, I've been through a phase where I utterly nuked my test levels and especially DHT and the pattern hairloss persisted for an extended period of time.
It is my belief based on observed evidence, not broscience that hair vulnerable to what we commonly discern to be androgenic means of loss is actually a broad spectrum vulnerability that applies to various types of inflammation and also a broad range of hormones including GH, prolactin and insulin. They are all related, if the conventional perception were true then finasteride would be a gold standard panacea with virtually no side effects because every case of hairloss would be precisely the same.
Why don't eunuchs go bald then?
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Are you honestly going to provide such a culturally irrelevant example as the standard by which the rest of modern civilization should be measured against? Really? Eunuchs aren't a prevalent population anymore, why even cite that?
Are you interested in understanding the nature of pattern hair loss in modern societies or are you trying to win a really lame argument via sophistry?