Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

John Difool

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First off. My apologies for the long delay. Work got in the way and I had hard deadlines to meet.

WARNING THIS IS GOING TO BE A LONG POST, BUT VERY INFORMATIVE. I WILL TRY MY BEST TO BOLD THE MOST IMPORTANT EXCERPTS THAT SHOULD WARRANT ATTENTION!

Part 1 in the series...

Let's tackle the first part of your query: How Whey Protein Destroyed My Hair And Life:


My quick whey protein isolate story: When I was 23 years old, I took high amounts of whey protein isolate 4 scoops per day 5x weekly. 4 scoops = 96g of protein. Plus protein from foods, I was getting around 140-155 grams of protein per day. Fast forward 1.5 years, severe Norwood 3V/4 diffuse hair loss.

Similar to itsnoahkennedy and bridgeburn but more thinning in the mid regions.

P.S. My diet is clean but my bro's diet is the opposite. Smokes hookah as well. He's 1.9 years older than me. He has a full head of hair. Never took bodybuilding supplements. This would be the same for me had I known about how detrimental whey protein and dairy is to the human body and hair.

Took me 6 years to connect the dots and conclude that whey protein was the culprit.

Here are a mixture of eight plausible theories, observations, and factual evidence proving why whey protein/high-protein diets will directly lead to pattern baldness:

1. Probably the best source of corroboration: "The (BCAA’s) Branched Chain Amino Acids in whey protein isolate (WPI) are the real culprit in raising the testosterone levels during and after exercise. Whey protein also has a high (BV) High Biological Value (6) and is absorbed easily due to its small molecular weight. Casein which is found in whey increases serum IGF-1. Scalp IGF-1 is pro hair but serum is anti-hair. An increase in serum IGF-1 can increase DHT. Take a look at the attached Shapiro Chart to see a pictorial view of how Whey Protein Isolate leads to baldness (Circled in red bottom right).

Also, some other user asked about creatine, one bodybuilding product. The answer is yes. Creatine leads to baldness by according to the author raising DHT directly without affecting serum testosterone levels [46] although IGF-1 is elevated [47,48]. A study showed that after 7 days (1 week) of creatine loading, or a further 2 weeks of creatine maintenance dose, there was no change in serum T levels. However, DHT levels increased by 56% after a week of creatine loading and remained 40% above baseline after two weeks of maintenance [42]. The effect of IGF-I was about 100x that of androgen [4]. See the attached creatine photo for proof."


2. Dr. Eric Berg’s Theory On High-Protein Diets: In that video he confirms soy protein isolates or specific high protein diets can aggravate the liver disconnecting the conversion of thyroid hormones and raising serum IGF-1 causing a buildup of androgens. The serum IGF-1 he was probably referring to was the unbound type, since it’s more bioavailable or freer to bind to androgen receptors, thus potentiating androgenic production

3. Ali Kuoppala Scientific-Based Conclusion On High-Protein Diets: As confirmed by the anabolic guru, Ali Kuoppala strongly believes based on clinical studies, high-protein diets decelerate testosterone, SHBG, and DHT production (you need some DHT (serum) for masculinity) and raise cortisol. Cortisol similar to prolactin is a stress hormone which can cause thyroid and hair depression.

4.
High IGF-1 Levels In Respect To Whey Protein Supplementation: This study conducted over a period of two years further proves whey protein supplementation significantly elevates serum IGF-1. Too much serum IGF-1 causes male pattern baldness. My whey protein story was 1.5 years very close to the timeline of this study. If only I had known to check my hormone levels then, we would've had a glimpse on where these markers stand.

5. Another Scientific Study Cementing Loose Ends: As this study points out, there’s a direct relationship between protein supplements and high serum IGF-1.

6.
Vertex Balding Males Had Higher Serum IGF-1 Content Than IGFBP-3: No need to sum it up. The title says it all.

7. Vertex Baldness Doubled With Men Having Higher Levels Of Serum IGF-1 And Testosterone: No need to sum it up. The title says it all.

8. Hypoglycemia (extremely low levels of glucose) Branches From Exaggerated Insulin And/Or Serum IGF-1 Levels: Because serum IGF-1 is very similar to insulin, it can produce the same effects as insulin by binding to the cell receptors. Based on my story, I was double counting the production of insulin- one through serum IGF-1 and the other through insulin. The overproduction of insulin eventually lead to hypoglycemia, which progressively forced my cell receptors to block the invasion of more insulin from entering into the blood.

Overtime, this vicious cycle lead to a pile up of more sugar in my blood causing some form of insulin resistance. We all know insulin resistance is one of the primary causes of hormonal imbalance and hair loss, and sadly, I was most likely the beneficiary.



Further Clinical Evidence for the Effect of IGF-1 on Hair Growth and Alopecia​

 

GRme11

Experienced Member
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377
I am just posting here again my blood tests that I have done until now, while on Oral finasteride, Topical finasteride, Topical minoxidil for informative purposes.

1)Before trying Topical Finasteride and Oral:My baseline Testosterone and DHT blood tests were(June 2019):

Testosterone:806(Normal:249-836) ng/dL
DHT:541(Normal:250-990)pg/mL
Free Testosterone:12.6(Normal:5.8-18)ng/dL
Iron:133(Normal:60-160)μg/dL
Ferritin:142(Normal:30-400)ng/mL
D3:20.6(Normal:20-50)ng/mL
Then I tested all these(July 2019):
Estradiol E2:22(Normal:<60)pg/ml
Progesterone:0.36(Normal:<0.2)ng/ml
FSH:5.8(Normal:1.5-12.4)iu/l
LH:4.9(Normal:1.7-8.6)iu/l
DHEA-S:332(Normal:211-492)μg/dl
Androstenedione:2.26(Normal:0.6-3.1)ng/ml
SHBG:63(Normal:10-80)nmol/l
Prolactin:7(Normal:4-15.2)ng/ml
TSH:2.76(Normal:0.27-4.7)μIU/ml
T4:7.08(Normal:5.1-14.1)μg/dl
T3:108(Normal:80-200)ng/dl
*I was using only Minoxidil by that time

2)I jumped into Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil in August 2019 and then I managed to test in October 2019 the following:

Estradiol E2:15(Normal:<60)
Testosterone:564(Normal:249-836)
DHT:302(Normal:250-990)
D3:18.9(Normal:20-50)->Deficiency

3)January 2020 I started taking oral finasteride 3 times per week for 3 weeks(0.5mg) and I was using as well Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil.Then at the end of January I got another test and the results were:
(I got a general blood test as well and I got some pretty low results)

RBC:3.9(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.3(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.9(Normal:40-51.5)
Estradiol E2:20
Testosterone:644
Estrone E1:31.9(Normal:15-65) No Baseline Here!
DHT:298(Normal:250-990)

***Rare Test:IGF-1:145(Normal:105-346)ng/mL

4)I finally jumped into Oral Finasteride(Propecia Brand) in mid February.I started 0.5mg everyday and in April I move into 1mg daily,which is the dose I am using at the moment.I am also still using Topical Finasteride plus Minoxidil. 6 days ago(6/5/20) I managed to get a blood test and the results were:

RBC:3.8(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.2(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.7(Normal:40-51.5)
Iron:71(Normal:60-160)
Ferritin:120.8(Normal:30-400)
D3:16.3(Normal:20-50)
B12:612(Normal:225-1000)
Estradiol E2:5(Almost Undetectable-Just for 1 unit)
Testosterone:465.7(Normal:249-836)
Free Testosterone:7.2(Normal:5.8-18)
SHBG:58.7(Normal:10-80)
Progesterone:0.2(Normal:<0.2)
Estrone E1:21(Normal:15-65)
DHT:313(Normal:250-990)


5) 2/6/20 (same Meds) :
T3: 67 ng/dL (74-195---Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH: 3.23 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
E2:9.5 pg/ml (<60)
Testosterone:427.70 ng/dl (249-836)
FSH:5.6 mIU/ml (1.5-12.4)
LH:3.3 mIU/ml (1.7-8.6)
PRL:5.8 ng/ml (4-15.2)
DHEA-S:177.4 μg/dl (211-492)
17-OHP:1.03 ng/ml (0.5-2.5)
Androstenedione:1.99 ng/ml (0.6-3.10)
3a-Diol-G (DHT Metabolite) : 1.3 ng/ml (3.4-22)
DHT:283 pg/ml (250-990)

6) 1/9/20 (same Meds-Wanted to check my Electrolytes and Aldosterone as well!)
Calcium:10 mg/dl (8.4-10.1)
Phosphorus:4.5 mg/dl (2.7-4.5)
Pottasium:4.6 mEq/L (3.5-5.1)
Sodium:143.8 mEq/L (137-150)
Chlorium:104.6 mEq/L (98.108)
+Magnesium which was Normal
T3:65 ng/dL (74-195----Still Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH:2.98 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
Aldosterone (Standing):28 ng/dl which is 280 pg/ml (4-31) Normal BUT High accordingly to the study that measured Aldosterone Levels in correlation with Androgenetic Alopecia.
E2:8.5 pg/ml(<60)
Testosterone:523 ng/dl (249-836)
DHT:383 pg/mL (250-990)
E3:0.1 ng/mL (<0.16)

*All these tested in morning hours as it should

I hope I can help a bit with these results. I am going to make a new thread for the other members to read as well. Thank you
 

JaneyElizabeth

Banned
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2,032
Can anyone explain to me why it’s not recommended to apply estrogel directly to your problem areas? I understand that you can’t prevent it from going systemic and that to get full effect you really want it to go systemic, but I assume you’d still end up with more estrogen in your blood directly where it’s being applied as opposed to rubbing it on my inner arm or stomach.
I do this and often, applying where I like and often focusing on one specfic area. It is liberating to feel at least some control over the HRT process and if efficacious, use of estrogel allows us this.

At worst, these are just different pathways for the ingestion of estrogen. The most efficient way to take estrogel and by five or more times efficient is application via genital skin. I have frankly used it everywhere and now I focus on scalp and face. I know the hope is that estrogen has localized effects but the evidence is sketchy on this. Anecdotally, I think that doing so might have resulted in more thorough breast development. In terms of my hair, I use estrogel at least once a day as a hair gel and I work it into the entire scalp since my thinning is more diffuse. I use much larger amounts on both the hairline and the crown and I am applying it to the neck regions whence hair proceed. I apply it all over my face including lips, nose, chin throat several times per day with a thin application rubbed in with my fingers. I also used it as recommended, "down there" and it seems to result in further feminization or estrogenization of the area, meaning inducing smallness, lack of robustness and an inter-sex aspect.
 
Last edited:

Abomination

Member
My Regimen
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22
I am just posting here again my blood tests that I have done until now, while on Oral finasteride, Topical finasteride, Topical minoxidil for informative purposes.

1)Before trying Topical Finasteride and Oral:My baseline Testosterone and DHT blood tests were(June 2019):

Testosterone:806(Normal:249-836) ng/dL
DHT:541(Normal:250-990)pg/mL
Free Testosterone:12.6(Normal:5.8-18)ng/dL
Iron:133(Normal:60-160)μg/dL
Ferritin:142(Normal:30-400)ng/mL
D3:20.6(Normal:20-50)ng/mL
Then I tested all these(July 2019):
Estradiol E2:22(Normal:<60)pg/ml
Progesterone:0.36(Normal:<0.2)ng/ml
FSH:5.8(Normal:1.5-12.4)iu/l
LH:4.9(Normal:1.7-8.6)iu/l
DHEA-S:332(Normal:211-492)μg/dl
Androstenedione:2.26(Normal:0.6-3.1)ng/ml
SHBG:63(Normal:10-80)nmol/l
Prolactin:7(Normal:4-15.2)ng/ml
TSH:2.76(Normal:0.27-4.7)μIU/ml
T4:7.08(Normal:5.1-14.1)μg/dl
T3:108(Normal:80-200)ng/dl
*I was using only Minoxidil by that time

2)I jumped into Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil in August 2019 and then I managed to test in October 2019 the following:

Estradiol E2:15(Normal:<60)
Testosterone:564(Normal:249-836)
DHT:302(Normal:250-990)
D3:18.9(Normal:20-50)->Deficiency

3)January 2020 I started taking oral finasteride 3 times per week for 3 weeks(0.5mg) and I was using as well Topical Finasteride+Minoxidil.Then at the end of January I got another test and the results were:
(I got a general blood test as well and I got some pretty low results)

RBC:3.9(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.3(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.9(Normal:40-51.5)
Estradiol E2:20
Testosterone:644
Estrone E1:31.9(Normal:15-65) No Baseline Here!
DHT:298(Normal:250-990)

***Rare Test:IGF-1:145(Normal:105-346)ng/mL

4)I finally jumped into Oral Finasteride(Propecia Brand) in mid February.I started 0.5mg everyday and in April I move into 1mg daily,which is the dose I am using at the moment.I am also still using Topical Finasteride plus Minoxidil. 6 days ago(6/5/20) I managed to get a blood test and the results were:

RBC:3.8(Normal:4.7-6)
Hemoglobin:12.2(Normal:13.5-18)
Hematocrit:36.7(Normal:40-51.5)
Iron:71(Normal:60-160)
Ferritin:120.8(Normal:30-400)
D3:16.3(Normal:20-50)
B12:612(Normal:225-1000)
Estradiol E2:5(Almost Undetectable-Just for 1 unit)
Testosterone:465.7(Normal:249-836)
Free Testosterone:7.2(Normal:5.8-18)
SHBG:58.7(Normal:10-80)
Progesterone:0.2(Normal:<0.2)
Estrone E1:21(Normal:15-65)
DHT:313(Normal:250-990)


5) 2/6/20 (same Meds) :
T3: 67 ng/dL (74-195---Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH: 3.23 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
E2:9.5 pg/ml (<60)
Testosterone:427.70 ng/dl (249-836)
FSH:5.6 mIU/ml (1.5-12.4)
LH:3.3 mIU/ml (1.7-8.6)
PRL:5.8 ng/ml (4-15.2)
DHEA-S:177.4 μg/dl (211-492)
17-OHP:1.03 ng/ml (0.5-2.5)
Androstenedione:1.99 ng/ml (0.6-3.10)
3a-Diol-G (DHT Metabolite) : 1.3 ng/ml (3.4-22)
DHT:283 pg/ml (250-990)

6) 1/9/20 (same Meds-Wanted to check my Electrolytes and Aldosterone as well!)
Calcium:10 mg/dl (8.4-10.1)
Phosphorus:4.5 mg/dl (2.7-4.5)
Pottasium:4.6 mEq/L (3.5-5.1)
Sodium:143.8 mEq/L (137-150)
Chlorium:104.6 mEq/L (98.108)
+Magnesium which was Normal
T3:65 ng/dL (74-195----Still Low)
T4:6 μg/dl (4.6-12)
TSH:2.98 μIU/ml (0.27-4.7)
Aldosterone (Standing):28 ng/dl which is 280 pg/ml (4-31) Normal BUT High accordingly to the study that measured Aldosterone Levels in correlation with Androgenetic Alopecia.
E2:8.5 pg/ml(<60)
Testosterone:523 ng/dl (249-836)
DHT:383 pg/mL (250-990)
E3:0.1 ng/mL (<0.16)

*All these tested in morning hours as it should

I hope I can help a bit with these results. I am going to make a new thread for the other members to read as well. Thank you
Wow so your DHT has gone up 100 points from 2/6/20 to 1/9/20 . Looks like compared to baseline, topical vs oral doesn't make that much of a difference, at least in serum levels. We should all measure our scalp DHT and T too when we do these tests, otherwise we dont have the full picture.
 

Gergely

Experienced Member
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509
Wow so your DHT has gone up 100 points from 2/6/20 to 1/9/20 . Looks like compared to baseline, topical vs oral doesn't make that much of a difference, at least in serum levels. We should all measure our scalp DHT and T too when we do these tests, otherwise we dont have the full picture.
The place i went to for blood tests, didn't even know what E1, E3 was much less what DHT is. :D
 

Jacob Williams

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
80
I do this and often, applying where I like and often focusing on one specfic area. It is liberating to feel at least some control over the HRT process and if efficacious, use of estrogel allows us this.

At worst, these are just different pathways for the ingestion of estrogen. The most efficient way to take estrogel and by five or more times efficient is application via genital skin. I have frankly used it everywhere and now I focus on scalp and face. I know the hope is that estrogen has localized effects but the evidence is sketchy on this. Anecdotally, I think that doing so might have resulted in more thorough breast development. In terms of my hair, I use estrogel at least once a day as a hair gel and I work it into the entire scalp since my thinning is more diffuse. I use much larger amounts on both the hairline and the crown and I am applying it to the neck regions whence hair proceed. I apply it all over my face including lips, nose, chin throat several times per day with a thin application rubbed in with my fingers. I also used it as recommended, "down there" and it seems to result in further feminization or estrogenization of the area, meaning inducing smallness, lack of robustness and an inter-sex aspect.
Wow you must use a crazy amount of estrogel each day. Any advice on how much to use if I’m combining it with Bicalutamide? I think I read 2-3 pumps in another thread where a guy had success regrowing hair with the goal of maintaining as much masculinity possible, but he was taking CPA.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Reaction score
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The place i went to for blood tests, didn't even know what E1, E3 was much less what DHT is. :D
There's lab corp and then there's the other one quest but I was wondering if there would be an assay called something like HRT-Extended.
 
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JaneyElizabeth

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
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Wow you must use a crazy amount of estrogel each day. Any advice on how much to use if I’m combining it with Bicalutamide? I think I read 2-3 pumps in another thread where a guy had success regrowing hair with the goal of maintaining as much masculinity possible, but he was taking CPA.
Estrogel is stored in fat muscles and released as needed so I have always taken a bio-feedback path. The mere massaging of it in different areas is healthy psychologically and in terms of skin-age calibrating from what I can tell.

I would use as little bica as needed but for hair goals, you do want to achieve adult female levels of estrogen and testosterone. That's not the case for breast growth or fat redistribution below the neck from what I have observed. I absolutely loooovvvve estrogel and I think that it is the fountain of beauty for skin and likely to have at least minor skin effects that are beneficial and for hair, maybe the major push for regeneration.

As I look in the mirror, my "guy" hair is really, really coming in. Different to how one might think, my hair took on significant structure right after using or beginning to use estrogen. This means that the "regrowth" has been largely independent of the frontal temporal lines and so there isn't really a feeling of my being able to look for the corners to fill in. It is basically all filling in and filling out, most likely in terms of strand diameter. I am not very worried anymore because the hair seems in control of itself. I will continue with the estrogel treatments since they are correlated with excellent results.
 
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GRme11

Experienced Member
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377
Wow so your DHT has gone up 100 points from 2/6/20 to 1/9/20 . Looks like compared to baseline, topical vs oral doesn't make that much of a difference, at least in serum levels. We should all measure our scalp DHT and T too when we do these tests, otherwise we dont have the full picture.
I totally agree. These blood tests can be inaccurate, because hormones have many fluctuations. For example, DHT going up and down and that’s why after I added 3a-Diol-G, because it’s a stronger indicator, since it’s a major metabolite of DHT and so on. Although, I did all these to know what’s happening and how my body reacts and to check as well, all the other stuff that I read from threads,studies etc. Thanks.
 

Jacob Williams

Established Member
My Regimen
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80
I’m about to photo dump a bunch of pictures of my current hair under different conditions. It’s been hard to capture the pattern of my hair loss in the past because it’s quite diffuse. I’d describe my hair as clumpy. I have a bunch of thick clumps that act like a canopy over the areas where hair is missing. In isolation most of the photos aside from my sides don’t look bad, but the photos are representative of what’s happening all over the top and lots of the back of my head. Again it’s just very hard to capture the extent of my hairloss with photos.
 

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Jacob Williams

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
80
My hair feels and behaves significantly different from how it used to, and I’ve never had all these barren gaps before. I still have enough hair left to pass, but it’s continuing to regress even on an extreme regimen. I don’t understand why people think you need to be a NW6 to start taking antiandrogens or estrogen. If your hair is as important to you as it is to me, you should start as soon as it’s your last available option if things are still getting worse. Don’t let people gaslight you into believing you aren’t balding just because you can still cover it. It’s significantly harder to regrow hair than to maintain so the second you can’t cover it you might be sh*t out of luck. I started antiandrogens when my temples were just barely starting to show at the front and I had perfect density everywhere else and it’s still gotten significantly worse (again everything is relative, I know it’s still not nearly as bad as other people here). Please don’t wait until you’re at the stage that Bridgeburn was at when he started. I think and hope that I still stand a good chance at recovery but who knows with how resistant I’ve been to treatment thus far. It’s gonna suck if I need estrogen side effects just to maintain. If I’m gonna lose all my muscle mass and fertility I’d at least like to be able to style my hair like I could 6 months ago.
 

JaneyElizabeth

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
2,032
Why do all of you start with, or even use without estrogen, AA's? I assume it is due to the fear that estrogen is more femininizing than AA's but I am not sure about that.
 

Gergely

Experienced Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
509
Why do all of you start with, or even use without estrogen, AA's? I assume it is due to the fear that estrogen is more femininizing than AA's but I am not sure about that.
I don't think i would have developed further gyno if i stayed on spironolactone, bica is more "feminizing" than E2 and spironolactone combined.
 

JaneyElizabeth

Banned
My Regimen
Reaction score
2,032
I don't think i would have developed further gyno if i stayed on spironolactone, bica is more "feminizing" than E2 and spironolactone combined.
Interesting in that some have claimed that Bica is less impactful upon physical strength which I found spironolactone to cause, both in terms of fatigue and weakness.
 

Analogies

Established Member
My Regimen
Reaction score
68
Has anyone successfully had regrowth from increasing their estrogen levels without lowering their testosterone levels?
 
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