Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[bridgeburn]

My drugs finally came in. Do you think dutas fina and 200 mg oral spironolactone a day will increase my test ? I thought spironolactone converted test ?

probably won't increase T.
I don't think spironolactone converts T directly. It blocks the receptor and doesn't have a strong anti-gonadotrophin effect, So most T production is maintained while T can't bind to AR but it can aromatase. and taking finasteride or dutasteride in combination will further increase conversion.

 

[Jesse Navarro]

I think you said you quit because of gyno, did you try ralaxafene to combat it?
Not sure i spelled that right

I quit because of gyno and because i was not seeing the results i wanted. I didnt try ralaxafene. If i try again this harsh regimen i will be more prepared; but i want for now to stay in a more normal route

 

[Marky]

probably won't increase T.
I don't think spironolactone converts T directly. It blocks the receptor and doesn't have a strong anti-gonadotrophin effect, So most T production is maintained while T can't bind to AR but it can aromatase. and taking finasteride or dutasteride in combination will further increase conversion.

Bridge did you try ralaxafene? Is it used when you start to see signs of gyno or after?

 

[Kornel]

You know spironolactone can increase testosterone in some people.. I believe this happened to me as when I was on spironolactone my hair shed worse than a minoxidil shed the whole time I was on it. I would try Cyproterone instead, at least you know for sure its going to block/lower testosterone

How can spironolactone increase testosterone?

 

[AnxiousAndy]

How can spironolactone increase testosterone?

Its can indirectly cause an increase of testosterone due to the body not receiving enough of the hormone. It produces more than it blocks.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

really dont get why people are trying to copy this regiment and take all these drugs orally when for alot of them you can take it topically and its just as effective with less systemic side effects

please educate yourselves before going on such aggressive regiments, I see so many noob questions being asked in this thread.

First of all why are people even considering spirinolactone when there are drugs like bicalutamide that are much safer and more effective? Basically every anti androgen is better than spironolactone, if you dont care about side effects may as well use one with less harsh side effects.
Second of all, if a drug does not need to be converted to a metabolite to become active you can use it topically and get all the same effects

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Its can indirectly cause an increase of testosterone due to the body not receiving enough of the hormone. It produces more than it blocks.

It binds to the pituitary gland and cancels the negative feedback loop of testosterone, causing more LH to be released which results in your testes producing more testosterone. None of this matters when you are taking estradiol as well because that will shut you down harder than anything else.

 

[itchymadscalp]

really dont get why people are trying to copy this regiment and take all these drugs orally when for alot of them you can take it topically and its just as effective with less systemic side effects

please educate yourselves before going on such aggressive regiments, I see so many noob questions being asked in this thread.

First of all why are people even considering spirinolactone when there are drugs like bicalutamide that are much safer and more effective? Basically every anti androgen is better than spironolactone, if you dont care about side effects may as well use one with less harsh side effects.
Second of all, if a drug does not need to be converted to a metabolite to become active you can use it topically and get all the same effects

Educate yourself ...

Prolonged treatment with bicalutamide induces androgen receptor overexpression and androgen hypersensitivity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20058237

Bicalutamide is not as safe as you want to believe.

Spironolactone is the most used AA for MTF ... it's pretty safe.

Topical Estradiol has a longer half life than oral.

Find a way to be more humble :/ sorry but people need to ask "noob" questions to educate themselves.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Educate yourself ...

Prolonged treatment with bicalutamide induces androgen receptor overexpression and androgen hypersensitivity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20058237

Bicalutamide is not as safe as you want to believe.

Spironolactone is the most used AA for MTF ... it's pretty safe.

Topical Estradiol has a longer half life than oral.

Find a way to be more humble :/ sorry but people need to ask "noob" questions to educate themselves.

how can someone so cocky be so dumb

How many times do I have to tell you, that is only in mutant ARs of cancer cells. You have not even bothered to read the literature on this subject yet you keep spewing this out like diarrhea. Why are they bothering to make new drugs to block the receptors, have you ever stopped to think of that? Its because come cancer cells had mutant ARs that were able to grow or even use the drugs as agonists. You are litterally linking a study on mutant ARs of cancerous prostate cells. Either you didnt bother to read it or do you lack the ability to understand

Thats why they came out with Enza and Daro

Stop repeating this everywhere, you have no clue what youre talking about. So far there have been 3 people on this forum who have tried topical Bica including me and we have all had great results from it in terms of hairloss

Spirinolactone is used more because there is a negative connatation with using a cancer drug as part of hormone therapy. Common sense should have told you that its not a good idea to be on a diuretic for long periods of time, but I guess you dont have that

The whole point of topical estradiol is to use a lower dose than oral while getting a sufficient local dose. And no it doesnt have a longer half life you dummy. Once estradiol goes systemic it is eliminated at the same rate wether its taken orally or topically.

 

[Moribund]

Maybe people are picking bridge's regimen over yours because apparently topical daro turns you into a needlessly confrontational needledick.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Maybe people are picking bridge's regimen over yours because apparently topical daro turns you into a needlessly confrontational needledick.

Vs chemically castrating yourself, growing gyno, losing your libido...

Pick whatever you want. If you couldn’t extract useful info from my post your a lost cause anyways

Not that I have anything negative to say about the op. I’m happy for him

 

[itchymadscalp]

how can someone so cocky be so dumb

How many times do I have to tell you, that is only in mutant ARs of cancer cells. You have not even bothered to read the literature on this subject yet you keep spewing this out like diarrhea. Why are they bothering to make new drugs to block the receptors, have you ever stopped to think of that? Its because come cancer cells had mutant ARs that were able to grow or even use the drugs as agonists. You are litterally linking a study on mutant ARs of cancerous prostate cells. Either you didnt bother to read it or do you lack the ability to understand

Thats why they came out with Enza and Daro

Stop repeating this everywhere, you have no clue what youre talking about. So far there have been 3 people on this forum who have tried topical Bica including me and we have all had great results from it in terms of hairloss

Spirinolactone is used more because there is a negative connatation with using a cancer drug as part of hormone therapy. Common sense should have told you that its not a good idea to be on a diuretic for long periods of time, but I guess you dont have that

The whole point of topical estradiol is to use a lower dose than oral while getting a sufficient local dose. And no it doesnt have a longer half life you dummy. Once estradiol goes systemic it is eliminated at the same rate wether its taken orally or topically.

You're an idiot, and a narcissist. Again, you're wrong. Bicalutamide is not an easy drug, it's not candy. And you have no clue about the long term side effects. Same with Daro actually.
spironolactone is used by 90% of MTF on HRT in US (without orchi of course).

Reflex hyperandrogenicity (androgen receptors upregulation, androgen receptors overexpression) ... is real. I'm not the only one having that problem with AA. But yeah everyone else, except you of course, is an idiot, a dummy, a noob ...
I have no prostate cancer, too young, but still having my androgen receptors more sensitive (almost no testosterone : high libido, hair loss, itchy scalp, more body hair, ...).

Really ... try to be more humble. Grow up.

First. It will help you a bit.
If you want to learn more about MTF regimen :
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/new/
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/new/
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/

I'm not saying I'm always on the side of truth, I'm learning everyday. There is nothing wrong with asking noob questions.If you think otherwise, you're an idiot, a narcissist. I could have ignored you, but really presumptuous guys ... no way.

again, try to be nice, maybe I'm wrong, but maybe you're wrong.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

You're an idiot, and a narcissist. Again, you're wrong. Bicalutamide is not an easy drug, it's not candy. And you have no clue about the long term side effects. Same with Daro actually.
spironolactone is used by 90% of MTF on HRT in US (without orchi of course).

Reflex hyperandrogenicity (androgen receptors upregulation, androgen receptors overexpression) ... is real. I'm not the only one having that problem with AA. But yeah everyone else, except you of course, is an idiot, a dummy, a noob ...
I have no prostate cancer, too young, but still having my androgen receptors more sensitive (almost no testosterone : high libido, hair loss, itchy scalp, more body hair, ...).

Really ... try to be more humble. Grow up.

First. It will help you a bit.
If you want to learn more about MTF regimen :
https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/new/
https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/new/
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/

I'm not saying I'm always on the side of truth, I'm learning everyday. There is nothing wrong with asking noob questions.If you think otherwise, you're an idiot, a narcissist. I could have ignored you, but really presumptuous guys ... no way.

again, try to be nice, maybe I'm wrong, but maybe you're wrong.

some nice reddit links for sources. You lack the intelectual capacity to understand the reason I gave as to why bicalutamide is not used is a part of mtf regiment. Its an fda apporved cancer drug and no doctos is going to want to prescrive that to any patients when they can just use the status quo of spironolactone even though it is much worse for the patiens

Do you even understand that bicalutamide has been FDA approved for over a decade and there is lots of research into long term use. This is not the case with Daro obviously and I never claimed that.

Read the side effect profiles, understand how the drugs work, and then you might be able to understand what I am saying to you. Spironolactone is a diuretic and an anti-androgen. Bicalutamide is only an anti androgen. Bicalutamide has much less severe side effects because it does not mess with your body's water or electrolyte balance.

I never said bicalutamide is like candy, how pathetic of you trying to put words into my mouth to fit your narrative. All I said was that its a much safer drug than spironolactone, which it is.

Lets go back to how you didnt even know the studies you were referencing were about increased AR sensitivity in mutant cancer cell lines. Your knowledge about this topic is a complete joke

 

[itchymadscalp]

Learn to read. Learn to be polite. Learn to be humble.
See you later

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Learn to read. Learn to be polite. Learn to be humble.
See you later

You did not even know the link you posted was mutant cancer cell lines. Maybe you should take your own advice. Read the literature, read your own links, and admit you were wrong. All part of being humble

 

[bridgeburn]

@hemingway_the_mercenary You have too much testosterone. It's making you agressive. You'd feel better after some nice chemical castration, Lol.

 

[bridgeburn]

Bridge did you try ralaxafene? Is it used when you start to see signs of gyno or after?

I never tried ralaxofene. Ideally you should use it before the gland gets so developed that it's too late. It might help shrink some after that point but gyno is generally considered permanent without surgery. so I've heard.

 

[Ein]

Guys, I don't want to get entangled into a heated argument about Bicalutamide, but I'd like to share my views.
hemingway_the_mercenary, though is very rude and impolite when he comments on our level of maturity and wisdom, he is very right about the information about Bicalutamide.
Bicalutamide binds itself to the androgen receptors and it goes inside the cell, but unlike androgens that have coactivator transcription, it has corepressor transcription, and it can have a huge benefit when treating hair loss. When it comes to mutant prostate cancer cells, they somehow manage to get coactivator transcription through anything that brings the receptors inside. Thus, certain prostate cancer cells become bicalutamide resistant.
Enzalutamide and Darolutamide are different. They don't translocate the AR at all. Therefore, there is no transcription and the bicalutamide resistant prostate cancer cells are not resistant to Enzalutamide and Darolutamide.
But hair follicle cells are different. They don't mutate. So, taking the advantage is corepressors is not a bad idea.
As for MTF HRT, Bicalutamide is not common because:

• Spironolactone is cheaper.
• Estrogen given for HRT makes it unnecessary for MTF to take a very strong anti androgen.
• Bicalutamide is mostly prescribed by oncologists.
• A lot of endocrinologists have no clue that Bicalutamide exists.
• Hyperkalemia is unexpected, because most MTF eventually get surgical castration and they either drop anti-androgens or switch to finasteride.

Though bicalutamide is used as experimental HRT for MTF transgenders with estrogen and non-binary people with Raloxifene.

 

[Ein]

Also, I'm not sure if topical is better, but oral is awesome and side effects are non- existent, if you don't count reduced libido as one. I didn't have any libido in the first place, so I'm pretty much the same person with better skin and more hair on scalp.

 

[Jesse Navarro]

The problem is the price