Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Jesse Navarro]

Also, I'm not sure if topical is better, but oral is awesome and side effects are non- existent, if you don't count reduced libido as one. I didn't have any libido in the first place, so I'm pretty much the same person with better skin and more hair on scalp.

How much would you have to take per day for hair loss?

 

[Ein]

How much would you have to take per day for hair loss?

Definitely more than 25mg per day. 25mg per day is used for hirsutism and women have lower testosterone levels than men, even in PCOS.
I take 50mg per day currently and I recently added finasteride back in my regimen because the binding capacity of DHT is very high and I don't want any androgen molecule to bind to the receptors at any cost.

 

[Derelict]

If finasteride doesn't work out for me i am definitely considering this type of regime. The results are nothing short of amazing.

 

[Jesse Navarro]

Wont the feminazing effects of bicalutamide be the same as estrogen spironolactone therapy? Breast growth, shrinkage of testicles etc

 

[bridgeburn]

Guys, I don't want to get entangled into a heated argument about Bicalutamide, but I'd like to share my views.
hemingway_the_mercenary, though is very rude and impolite when he comments on our level of maturity and wisdom, he is very right about the information about Bicalutamide.
Bicalutamide binds itself to the androgen receptors and it goes inside the cell, but unlike androgens that have coactivator transcription, it has corepressor transcription, and it can have a huge benefit when treating hair loss. When it comes to mutant prostate cancer cells, they somehow manage to get coactivator transcription through anything that brings the receptors inside. Thus, certain prostate cancer cells become bicalutamide resistant.
Enzalutamide and Darolutamide are different. They don't translocate the AR at all. Therefore, there is no transcription and the bicalutamide resistant prostate cancer cells are not resistant to Enzalutamide and Darolutamide.
But hair follicle cells are different. They don't mutate. So, taking the advantage is corepressors is not a bad idea.
As for MTF HRT, Bicalutamide is not common because:

• Spironolactone is cheaper.
• Estrogen given for HRT makes it unnecessary for MTF to take a very strong anti androgen.
• Bicalutamide is mostly prescribed by oncologists.
• A lot of endocrinologists have no clue that Bicalutamide exists.
• Hyperkalemia is unexpected, because most MTF eventually get surgical castration and they either drop anti-androgens or switch to finasteride.

Though bicalutamide is used as experimental HRT for MTF transgenders with estrogen and non-binary people with Raloxifene.

goddamn, your smart

 

[Ein]

Wont the feminazing effects of bicalutamide be the same as estrogen spironolactone therapy? Breast growth, shrinkage of testicles etc

No. Bicalutamide has no effects on your gonads and genitals. As far as breast tissues are concerned, your genetics play an important role here. Almost everyone gets breast tenderness on bicalutamide, but gynecomastia is very mild or non-existent for most of us. That's what explains why experimental MTF HRT needs estrogen with bicalutamide. Non-binary people include Raloxifene because the breast tenderness is horrible for around 50% of us.

 

[Ein]

goddamn, your smart

Thanks. This is the first complement I've ever got in my life, other than the boring old "You're so cute!" one I get from everyone.

 

[Ein]

No. Bicalutamide has no effects on your gonads and genitals. As far as breast tissues are concerned, your genetics play an important role here. Almost everyone gets breast tenderness on bicalutamide, but gynecomastia is very mild or non-existent for most of us. That's what explains why experimental MTF HRT needs estrogen with bicalutamide. Non-binary people include Raloxifene because the breast tenderness is horrible for around 50% of us.

The point here is that Bicalutamide has very weak binding capacity (that doesn't mean other anti-androgens are any better, they're worse) when we compare it to androgens. It works because it builds up a very very high stable serum concentrations compared to androgen molecules owing to its incredibly high elimination life. The high concentrations overload on the receptors and it binds irrespective of the presence of androgens. But that doesn't happen in testes, because the concentrations of androgens is very high in that area.

It's more like simple kinetics:
Rate of reaction(r) = Rate constant(k) * A power of Concentration of reactants(c)

Now, in hair follicles, the value of (k) for androgens is very high, but bicalutamide overpowers it by building up a very high value of (c) to compensate for its low value of (k) and it wins. But in testes, androgens have both a very high value for (k) and for (c). No matter how high (c) gets for bicalutamide on regular/recommended dosage, it never wins there.

Also, once the bond is formed, androgen molecules cannot replace bicalutamide or vice-versa.

Besides, since the serum concentration buildup of bicalutamide is responsible for its effectiveness, that's one of the reasons why I'm skeptical about it being effective topically without going systemic and developing the stable concentrations.

 

[Marky]

really dont get why people are trying to copy this regiment and take all these drugs orally when for alot of them you can take it topically and its just as effective with less systemic side effects

please educate yourselves before going on such aggressive regiments, I see so many noob questions being asked in this thread.

First of all why are people even considering spirinolactone when there are drugs like bicalutamide that are much safer and more effective? Basically every anti androgen is better than spironolactone, if you dont care about side effects may as well use one with less harsh side effects.
Second of all, if a drug does not need to be converted to a metabolite to become active you can use it topically and get all the same effects

Because bridges results speak for themselves and well documented without trick photography - which is rampant when it comes to hairloss.

Where is your results? When I asked you for pics of your great bicalutimide results, as you claimed on your thread, you never responded.

I think I speak for many when I say people are tired of all the solutions out there with mediocore results. Bridges results on the other hand are stunning and undeniable.

No offence to you, you are certainly educated on the topic.

 

[Jesse Navarro]

Very interesting

 

[Ein]

Because bridges results speak for themselves and well documented without trick photography - which is rampant when it comes to hairloss.

Where is your results? When I asked you for pics of your great bicalutimide results, as you claimed on your thread, you never responded.

I think I speak for many when I say people are tired of all the solutions out there with mediocore results. Bridges results on the other hand are stunning and undeniable.

No offence to you, you are certainly educated on the topic.

Sorry to barge in, but I am a bicalutamide user and I think it has worked great on me. I can send you the pics now, but I don't have the before pics. There's a thread of mine on these forums and I did upload a few pictures there, but that was when I had already started bicalutamide.
Sorry I don't have any proofs like Bridgeburn collected, because I delete the photos that show my hair loss, since I don't want to feel more depressed about it than I already am.

 

[Ein]

Sorry to barge in, but I am a bicalutamide user and I think it has worked great on me. I can send you the pics now, but I don't have the before pics. There's a thread of mine on these forums and I did upload a few pictures there, but that was when I had already started bicalutamide.
Sorry I don't have any proofs like Bridgeburn collected, because I delete the photos that show my hair loss, since I don't want to feel more depressed about it than I already am.

Also, I started really early, and it had its own advantages.

 

[bridgeburn]

Also, I started really early, and it had its own advantages.

you're 18 right?

 

[Ein]

you're 18 right?

I'm 19, and I'll turn 20 on 10th of October, the day when I hit the one year mark of bicalutamide journey.
I started it the day I turned 19.

 

[bridgeburn]

I'm 19, and I'll turn 20 on 10th of October, the day when I hit the one year mark of bicalutamide journey.
I started it the day I turned 19.

how bad was your hairloss?

 

[Ein]

how bad was your hairloss?

It was not at all bad, when you compare it to other balding men. It was more like the initial stage of female pattern hair loss. Those who think it was diffuse pattern or diffuse unpattern alopecia, are wrong. It was female pattern and I used to Ludwig scale instead of Norwood scale to diagnose it. I have a family history of male pattern baldness on my father's side and my brother who just turned 21 is Norwood 3 since he was 18. My father's sisters have female pattern hair loss too.
The intensity of hair loss wasn't high when I was 18 and started Finasteride and Spironolactone. In fact, it was only noticeable to me. You could see my scalp through a mid split and area around it when my hair was wet. Hairline is intact, perfect inverted U shaped with a widow's peak and very low hairline.

 

[itchymadscalp]

You did not even know the link you posted was mutant cancer cell lines. Maybe you should take your own advice. Read the literature, read your own links, and admit you were wrong. All part of being humble

Then explain my why since I took Cyproterone my hair loss has gone worse. My libido is back (after 10 years of total loss). I have more body hair. I'm more masculine. Why do I have pelvic, eyes, body pain and itchy scalp ?
My testosterone is very very very low ... my estrogen is in the ranges.
I can't have prostate cancer ... but I have some symptoms of androgen receptors overexpression.

And I want to be clear ... I can't prove I'm right about this. There is nothing substantial about reflex hyperandrogenicity. It's just a guess. And I don't like your posts because you insult people like they are sh*t just because they ask some noob questions from your perspective.

Now you should try to be nicer. You're not so smart, you're average. And even if you were a very smart guy, it doesn't give you the right to be an ***...le.

And sorry for my english. I've been learning for 2 years. And yeah I'm not very diligent. Still need some lessons obvisouly.

See you. Try to be cool next time.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Then explain my why since I took Cyproterone my hair loss has gone worse. My libido is back (after 10 years of total loss). I have more body hair. I'm more masculine. Why do I have pelvic, eyes, body pain and itchy scalp ?
My testosterone is very very very low ... my estrogen is in the ranges.
I can't have prostate cancer ... but I have some symptoms of androgen receptors overexpression.

And I want to be clear ... I can't prove I'm right about this. There is nothing substantial about reflex hyperandrogenicity. It's just a guess. And I don't like your posts because you insult people like they are sh*t just because they ask some noob questions from your perspective.

Now you should try to be nicer. You're not so smart, you're average. And even if you were a very smart guy, it doesn't give you the right to be an ***...le.

And sorry for my english. I've been learning for 2 years. And yeah I'm not very diligent. Still need some lessons obvisouly.

See you. Try to be cool next time.

You story has nothing to do solely with bica, thats why I get upset when I see you bashing a drug for something you claim to have even with other drugs. tbh i dont even know if your story is true but assuming it is, thats a very rare situation and I dont believe it has even once been documented in a scientifc publication of these drugs. Maybe the pain and itching you are feeling has to do with the fact your taking oral minoxidil and 6mg of estradiol among other drugs. Arent you on ciperatone ace now? Your using some of the most risky drugs in terms of side effects when there are better drugs your there both for effect and safety

The links you were posting did not back up your claims at all but to anyone who did not read them fully or did not have the ablity to understand could have been misinformed by them and change their drug choices. As I said before, bica is safer than spironolactone for many reasons.

Also I find it crazy you try to downplay my knowledge when I proved you wrong point by point in the posts above. Do we really need to go ver this again tho.

And yes, I expect people to google answers to basic questions and to have a strong understanding of there hormones and the effects of drugs before considering such an extreme regiment. That is not too much to expect

btw I never cared abt your english, dont need to apologize

 

[Marky]

Sorry to barge in, but I am a bicalutamide user and I think it has worked great on me. I can send you the pics now, but I don't have the before pics. There's a thread of mine on these forums and I did upload a few pictures there, but that was when I had already started bicalutamide.
Sorry I don't have any proofs like Bridgeburn collected, because I delete the photos that show my hair loss, since I don't want to feel more depressed about it than I already am.

Ya if you dont mind, some pics are better than nothing. And im not doubting you, i've seen ok results using some or all of the big 3, among many other things - but bridges still blow anything away, no competition.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

Ya if you dont mind, some pics are better than nothing. And im not doubting you, i've seen ok results using some or all of the big 3, among many other things - but bridges still blow anything away, no competition.

Of course if you fake high doses of oral estradiol and anti androgens you will get great regrowth. There was a trans here previously called recedingty or something who when from a nw7 to basically a nw1.5 on a similar regiment

Why is there no similar picss of people trying the topical route? Because there hasn’t been a single person go try topical 17b estradiol with no ester attached to it along with a strong anti androgen in a vehicle that could take it to the follicles.

Anyone trying the topical route is trying to avoid side effects. That’s why we don’t push the needle as much when it comes to drugs. If you used the same dosages topically as orally you would get even better regrowth potentially because the local levels of the drugs would be astronomically greater compare to when taken orally

I tap out, I’m done with this discussion