Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

BetaBoy

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Not to mention that bicalutamide works by concentration. In peripheral tissues, the drug should be working better than in the testicular area (even if... it almost can't have an effect there). Thus the low sexual side effect risk, but HIGH gynecomastia risk + estrogenic skin.
Yeah I don't really know too much about it's tissue selectivity, I'd just assumed the high gyno risk was a result of the 2 fold increase in T and that other NSAA's like Daro and Enza must also be just as risky if not more gyno wise.
 

Pls_NW-1

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Yeah I don't really know too much about it's tissue selectivity, I'd just assumed the high gyno risk was a result of the 2 fold increase in T and that other NSAA's like Daro and Enza must also be just as risky if not more gyno wise.
Daro and Enza have no positive HPTA axis from my knowledge, but Bicalutamide does and yes you made a great point there. More test = more e.

May I ask what you currently take?
 

Nimos0651

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I wanted to update everyone on my 2 month progress with my regimen of
1mg Finasteride (been taking for 4 years)
5mg oral minoxidil (been taking for 13 months)
1mg Estradiol
.75mg estrogel applied topically
50mg spironalactone (25mg morning- 25mg at night)

In terms of regrowth all I can notice is tiny vellus hairs on and under the hairline that can only be seen in certain light. I think this is a positive sign as there has not been hair in that area in over 7 years. I have not noticed increased density of the overall scalp yet (it is way too early to tell). I have no sexual side effects but I have noticed that I am a bit more emotional which I attribute to the estrogen; but I consider it a positive thing as I have always been the type of guy that suppresses his emotions to the point that it seems that I have none. I did get bloodwork done and they were supposed to send me the results but they never did. All the doctor said was that my T was in the normal range and that my E2 was slightly higher for a male.

Overall I feel good and will be patient with the results as my main goal is to achieve significant density improvement and "hair quality" as Janey describes it. I may up the spironolactone to 75mg in a few days and possibly 100mg at the 3 month mark. At the 6 month mark (June 15th) I am hoping to see noticeable improvement.
 

BetaBoy

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Daro and Enza have no positive HPTA axis from my knowledge, but Bicalutamide does and yes you made a great point there. More test = more e.

May I ask what you currently take?
Everything in "My Regimen" plus Isotretinoin 60mg, come to the end of my CPA journey now and so have started to gradually reduce my dose.

If I manage to maintain without CPA I will seriously consider taking a hair safe SARM like S4 and work on putting on some muscle mass. Outside of maintaining a healthy BMI I've been totally disregarding my physique over the past 3.5 years as it would have been a useless endeavour whilst on AAs.
 

Almas

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Bicalutamide in doses of 50-75 mg with a 5 are blocker should block all receptors in the skin of the face and scalp. Why it doesn't help everyone is one of the biggest mysteries in my life. How the f*** is this possible?
I will try doses of 50, 75 and 100mg before jumping on E. But if Bicalutamide does not stop the progression, this will mean that I will have to use E all my life, that is, in fact, strongly feminize myself. I’ll do it for the hair, but I don’t want to make such compromises ...
 

Swarleyd

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Still waiting for my spironolactone tabs. Even if it might not help with my hair loss, it should be effective in reducing my oily scalp and face lmao
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Still waiting for my spironolactone tabs. Even if it might not help with my hair loss, it should be effective in reducing my oily scalp and face lmao
It should help with the appearance of hair loss. We just aren't certain how, in terms of awakening dormant hair versus extending the anagen phase which can present like hair "regrowth".
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Everything in "My Regimen" plus Isotretinoin 60mg, come to the end of my CPA journey now and so have started to gradually reduce my dose.

If I manage to maintain without CPA I will seriously consider taking a hair safe SARM like S4 and work on putting on some muscle mass. Outside of maintaining a healthy BMI I've been totally disregarding my physique over the past 3.5 years as it would have been a useless endeavour whilst on AAs.
Yeah, maybe bica is different but spironolactone made me weak and fatigued and I sweated all of the time which only provoked more so it's Nacl depleting mechanism. I used to sleep with a salt shaker on my night table cause I would wake up in the middle of the night wanting salt. I couldn't start the lawn mower or mow for more than five minutes if I managed to. I had to take elevators and I never used to. Peanut butter jars became my nemeses in terms of not being able to open them or soda bottles at times. Weak as a kitten....
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I wanted to update everyone on my 2 month progress with my regimen of
1mg Finasteride (been taking for 4 years)
5mg oral minoxidil (been taking for 13 months)
1mg Estradiol
.75mg estrogel applied topically
50mg spironalactone (25mg morning- 25mg at night)

In terms of regrowth all I can notice is tiny vellus hairs on and under the hairline that can only be seen in certain light. I think this is a positive sign as there has not been hair in that area in over 7 years. I have not noticed increased density of the overall scalp yet (it is way too early to tell). I have no sexual side effects but I have noticed that I am a bit more emotional which I attribute to the estrogen; but I consider it a positive thing as I have always been the type of guy that suppresses his emotions to the point that it seems that I have none. I did get bloodwork done and they were supposed to send me the results but they never did. All the doctor said was that my T was in the normal range and that my E2 was slightly higher for a male.

Overall I feel good and will be patient with the results as my main goal is to achieve significant density improvement and "hair quality" as Janey describes it. I may up the spironolactone to 75mg in a few days and possibly 100mg at the 3 month mark. At the 6 month mark (June 15th) I am hoping to see noticeable improvement.
That's great that you are testing. Keep those levels in mind because it might be that once you hit a certain threshold, that hair growth really accelerates. People want to know if recoveries are possible without becoming chemically female like @bridgeburn and me and probably Gergely and some others. I just didn't find being stuck in the middle in terms of E2 and T to provide much oomph in terms of hair recovery. I did see improvement more than new hair, I would say and even improvement in sheen or manageability or ability to grow it long is something that only HRT provides really although min/finasteride might do so in smaller and less noticeable ways.

I think that this is an excellent incremental protocol and probably less likely to cause sheds but it won't protect against breast growth most likely since breast growth is essentially induced by any significant measures of exogenous E2 it appears. This should get you to adult female E2 levels eventually but it might six to 18 months depending on how soon it resets the axis. I had to really start drowning myself in estrogen to make the final leap towards femininity which eventually became a goal so be careful what we wish for cause you might just like it more and more....
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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I have no intention of returning to the state that is androgen poisoning
I agree. Twice in my life, androgens made me essentially age gravely all but overnight. In excess, they are poison. Most MtF's are not battling endocrine disorders but some of us are and it is clear from my pics that I am about a thousand times more well and substantially younger looking even apart from my descending hairline. I have much less of a fixation in terms of relentlessly pursuing goals which makes it pleasurable now, instead of feeling driven. I also take ADHD meds and the driven feeling of androgens is a lot like Adderall but even worse for some of us. I would never go back to the apt-to be compulsive "male" state. It would be crazy to do so at my age because of all of the residual health benefits and tissue re-matrixing. Everything but bone is shiny and new. It's amazing and I only think that it works indefinitely going in this direction of MtF in terms of hormones used.
 

Nimos0651

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That's great that you are testing. Keep those levels in mind because it might be that once you hit a certain threshold, that hair growth really accelerates. People want to know if recoveries are possible without becoming chemically female like @bridgeburn and me and probably Gergely and some others. I just didn't find being stuck in the middle in terms of E2 and T to provide much oomph in terms of hair recovery. I did see improvement more than new hair, I would say and even improvement in sheen or manageability or ability to grow it long is something that only HRT provides really although min/finasteride might do so in smaller and less noticeable ways.

I think that this is an excellent incremental protocol and probably less likely to cause sheds but it won't protect against breast growth most likely since breast growth is essentially induced by any significant measures of exogenous E2 it appears. This should get you to adult female E2 levels eventually but it might six to 18 months depending on how soon it resets the axis. I had to really start drowning myself in estrogen to make the final leap towards femininity which eventually became a goal so be careful what we wish for cause you might just like it more and more....
I appreciate the feedback. Although I have nothing against people who transition MtF or visa versa I would like to stay a cis male. You think only 1mg with .75mg estrogel is enough to get into female target ranges? I’m ultimately trying to avoid feminizing as I am already considered a “pretty boy”. I would also like to keep my male sexual function as it’s becoming more important to me (might have a girlfriend soon)
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I appreciate the feedback. Although I have nothing against people who transition MtF or visa versa I would like to stay a cis male. You think only 1mg with .75mg estrogel is enough to get into female target ranges? I’m ultimately trying to avoid feminizing as I am already considered a “pretty boy”. I would also like to keep my male sexual function as it’s becoming more important to me (might have a girlfriend soon)
I would have to look but there was a recent study that 2 mg oral is enough to re-set the axis and achieve adult female (approximately of 26 years old) levels of E2 and T but it can take a long time. I was on 2.5 mg of Premarin and 200 mg of spironolactone for about two years and I still was not close to target levels. It gets worse though because from the neck down, I looked like a pretty hot female with a bod that many cis-females would want. So the feminization comes first below the neck at even middling amounts of estrogen. Facial feminization and hair regrowth mostly only came once I flooded my system with first trimester pregnancy levels of E2 at ~2,600 pg/ml and only 9 ng/ml of testosterone. Even at that low level, dermatitis still comes up with my largely vellus beard hair follicles.

I might have to sing and shout it but I think that there is a connection between having a heavy beard with the resultant thousands of follicles and baldness. Some people might process DHT better or differently and still have perfect hair and beard but it's not common at all.
 

DHTHUNTER

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Hello everyone. I have a special intolerance to finasteride and dutasteride. many say reductase inhibitors are essential. can i take estradiol cyproterone or spironolactone. will that be enough?
 

Pls_NW-1

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Hello everyone. I have a special intolerance to finasteride and dutasteride. many say reductase inhibitors are essential. can i take estradiol cyproterone or spironolactone. will that be enough?
Please test your DHEA-S, Androsterone/Pregnane-...-dione

You might be a DHT mutant and your body tanks all the androgens through the alternate pathway, the adrenal one. Like mine dose.

F1.large-1.jpg
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Hello everyone. I have a special intolerance to finasteride and dutasteride. many say reductase inhibitors are essential. can i take estradiol cyproterone or spironolactone. will that be enough?
All of those meds are good for hair in one way or the other. Estradiol alone or estadiol with either spironolactone or cyproterone acetate are common simple MtF protocols. If you get your estrogen levels up, hair seems to improve but there's a debate more so about regrowth. In cases where follicles are dormant, it takes a lot to "wake them up" and adult female levels of estradiol and testosterone might be indicated in those situation.
 
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