Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Almas]

If you are "poor" go find a job. And stop spaming this thread.

The reasons why I am not able to work do not concern you: I am going to university and will study there for the next 5 years.

I try to keep people informed, because some people are interested in my plans. I will also keep abreast of the progress, which is more important. I warned that I could not keep some of my promises because I wanted to start HRT after surgery, which would be an interesting experience for this forum.

 

[Almas]

I must have started keeping the forum up to date with details that do not need to be divulged.
This year I will create my own forum thread, it makes more sense. There I will share all my experience, my thoughts on early baldness, so that people do not repeat my mistakes. Maybe some kind of a guide for young balding guys, because it hurts me to watch people make the same mistakes until they go too bald.

 

[WindR]

If you get russian medical insurance, you could come to endo and say you want to remove your pubertal gyno. She will send you to the surgical commission after all the blood work.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Guys, Janey, I'm new, and I need a whole new Androgenetic Alopecia regimen. Step one is to get on some kind of anti-androgen. I am a 40 something woman, Androgenetic Alopecia (secondary to PCOS) for over 20 years, lost over half my hair, and about half of that in a matter of months years and years ago. Have never psychologically recovered from that experience! Have been off Diane 35 for three years now and not wanting to go back on because of my age. Ended up (after a lot of experimenting and not sticking with anything else) only relying on Diane 35 as monotherapy for hair loss. Have not had a shed since coming off, but hair loss is progressing faster although scalp feels fine (the pill did not completely stop the loss, although it did slow it down. ) I am not under care of an endo (but have an upcoming appointment). I do not need contraception (I am gay and old) but to get anything prescribed I will need to go on hormonal contraception or a copper IUD (that's the way they do things here.) I don't want to faff about with that until I have worked out what I need to be on long term and I'm nervous about progestin-only contraception from a hair loss point of view. I don't want a progestin f*****g up my hair. Or if it does, I want to know that's the reason. Hence, starting the anti-androgens first.

So the plan is to DIY and experiment, and I may need to get blood tests done privately if needed. Obvs for bica it would be needed. Then I will see about getting what I want prescribed. I want to be able to chop and change until I'm happy. Bica is unlikely, duta is unlikely, finasteride, spironolactone and CPA all possible I think. Also, I don't know if I want to mess up my menstrual cycle too much (for health reasons, not hassle reasons, although obvs the hair is paramount. And the sexual sides are a minor consideration. Again, hair is paramount, but Diane has had some lasting effects there. Basically, most of the studies in women are done alongside estrogen-containing pills, which is fine, but I feel too old to risk being on one now. So I don't know how all this stuff is going to work without an OCP.

So the options are: spironolactone - I hate this stuff, I've tried it before, and there is no way I can do more than 100 mg, although I did read an interesting study about combining it with liquorice to offset some of the sides (well, not really the sides.) I have heart palpitations and a tendency to low blood pressure, so I would only really be interested in a low dose of spironolactone as support with finasteride I think, to block the increase in T, maybe just 50 mg. Also messes up periods, but the fatigue/dizziness etc is more of a concern for me.
CPA - I think I need to combine this with estrogen though? Plus the doses are insane, ten days out of the month a quarter of a pill is still a lot (Diane is only 2mg a day for 21 days out of 28). This needs more research.
finasteride - might try 2.5mg a day and see how it goes. Bit worried about raising the T too much. I have never had high T, but apparently it goes up about 40% in women. Conflicting studies on dosage in women, hence 2.5mg to start.
I could probably get any of these drugs prescribed with contraception.
These, however, seem less likely, although you never know:
dutasteride - think I'll try finasteride first, since if all goes badly, finasteride will be out of my system quicker.
Bica - very interested in this. Probably 12.5 mg or 25 mg a day. Ofc, potentially dangerous sides, liver must be monitored etc, so maybe a hassle to DIY? But some good recent studies. Both flut and bica seem to have the most impressive results for hair loss in women that I have seen. However, not sure how it's going to work with my PCOS. Also, on her alopecia, there have been two disasters; one lady ended up with serious lung disease within a few weeks, and one had reflex hyperandrogenicity. But then that could happen on finasteride too? Even the lady who had amazing results said the sexual side effects were severe, inability to orgasm etc. The worry is that those changes may not be fully reversible. I sound like a man complaining about this! But otoh, I've drooled over some of the studies and the progress pics! Seeing those partings tighten up! And aren't there always disasters on the internet?

I have a family history of breast cancer, which is a slight concern. spironolactone seems fine for that, obvs bica and finasteride/dutasteride are unknown.

Finance is a concern. I don't want to depend on an expensive regimen. I want something I can afford, come rain or shine. I already did the crazy spending money on random herbs and sh*t years ago. I wear a topper now outside the house, and I'm never going back unless I get considerable, OP levels of regrowth (which I'm not expecting.) So I have to pay for those. I also like taking as little of a drug as possible once it has built up in my tissues because I find with most anti-androgens that most of the benefit seems to be possible with a low dose.

Anyway, I'm posting here because this is a wonderful thread (I mean, seriously balding to hobbit hair in under 2 years!!) Very inspiring.

Welcome.

I agree with you about spironolactone and its sides. I have tried some spironolactone again recently just to see and I immediately was getting winded walking stairs and I sweated like a sow on that stuff. But you can go as low as 25mg as a female on spironolactone and I see doctors offering oral minoxidil with spironolactone to women which might be your best and cheapest way to go.

Females with Pcos symptoms seem to often be difficult cases

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

My last post here for a long time cause reading this thread has been pretty depessing lately. I was obsessive over different regimens and my own regrowth too but some people here seem to be thinking about this 24/7. It’ll get better homies hang in there.
My hair is very far from perfect but I’m happy the way it is at the moment, plus I have thick(but blonde) vellus hair all the way to a perfect feminine round hairline so I’m sure it will fill in. Adding prog after the summer cause I dont want any additional breastgrowth to my already somewhat difficult to hide breasts. Just woke up and havent brushed hair so it looks kinda wack but whatever

Thank you all for the help and good luck, love you

Yeah. You are fine. Your "male" hair will keep transitioning in texture, sheen and towards longer anagen.

 

[Yar]

Welcome.

I agree with you about spironolactone and its sides. I have tried some spironolactone again recently just to see and I immediately was getting winded walking stairs and I sweated like a sow on that stuff. But you can go as low as 25mg as a female on spironolactone and I see doctors offering oral minoxidil with spironolactone to women which might be your best and cheapest way to go.

Females with Pcos symptoms seem to often be difficult cases

This is all solved by taking progesterone and removing sugar and fast carbohydrates from the diet,then the woman will restore the cycle and she will be healthy

 

[Gergely]

@Yar So what's your diet like? What are you eating?

 

[Norwoody]

@Yar So what's your diet like? What are you eating?

Stroganoff and vodka

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Stroganoff and vodka

Back to the hoary old diet thing.

 

[Gergely]

Not like it would hurt on top of everything

 

[Yar]

Добро пожаловать.

Я согласен с вами насчет спиронолактона и его сторон. Я недавно попробовал немного спиронолактона снова, просто чтобы посмотреть, и у меня сразу же стало запыхаться при ходьбе по лестнице, и я потел, как свинья, от этого материала. Но вы можете снизить дозу спиронолактона до 25 мг, и я вижу, как врачи предлагают женщинам пероральный миноксидил со спиронолактоном, что может быть вашим лучшим и дешевым способом лечения.

Женщины с симптомами Pcos часто оказываются тяжелыми больными.

@Yar So what's your diet like? What are you eating?

I excluded all sweets, coffee with sugar, tea with sugar, sweets,cakes, sweet rolls, everything related to sugar.I drink tea or coffee without sugar.

 

[Yar]

A small instruction for the resumption of hair growth.The 4 essential components are estradiol, progesterone, and shbg.Estradiol in gel and daily intake of vitamin E to maintain a good level of progesterone in your blood.Shbg will grow from the passage of estradiol through the liver..We stop eating sugar and what is associated with it

 

[Yar]

Taking spironolactone or bicalutamide or finasteride does not solve anything ,it is a pharmaceutical lure for naive fools who buy it by providing pharmaceutical companies with money.They solve only the creation of the necessary concentrations of the hormones estrogen, progesterone,and shbg, ensuring hair growth in the areas of androgenic alopecia.

 

[Derelict]

Does anyone have experience with oral estriol? im not ready for estradiol just yet. I was thinking 2mg oral estriol might be helpful in helping my crown region, my temples are ok, don't bother me much. Right now im on 0.5mg dutasteride, 200mg spironolactone, 10mg oral min and 10ml oral castor oil.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

4mg 3x/day to keep blood levels up (total 12mg/day). stopped after 6 weeks, i don't do sore nipples and enlarged areola etc. didn't notice any effect on hair particularly.

Estriol might turn on breast development while doing very little else. My feeling is that the response curve for male pattern baldness using HRT is driven by two things, very low levels of testosterone and at least 100pg/ml of estradiol but it might very well be that higher estradiol doses are needed to kick start MtF hair growth for many of us, along with oral minoxidil which both Bridge and I have used. I think that I tout it more than he did even and I tout drinking it, lol.

I don't know where one would find such estriol pills but they do exist apparently. Generally, MtF's only use varieties of estradiol and its metabolites, the main two being estrone and estriol are like progesterone, of dubious value.

It's always nice to have new data points and to use one's intellect but I don't think that estriol has a lot of data behind it but I have used it quite often, usually as a combo in a Biestro cream and those creams are definitely feminizing if you use enough to improve your hair.

Main things for success:

Pick a protocol used successfully by someone else and then implement it as exactly as possible. Stick with it unless the sides are intolerable and then try titration. Don't expect huge stacks to always be better or even to be beneficial as the permutations become high quickly. For diffuse thinners, oral min might be a game changer so it is worth trying.

Don't stop when you shed.

Don't stop if you see breast growth. You either do this or you don't and managing breast growth currently appears to be highly expensive with Serms of dubious value and high price.

If you are not an MtF, then shoot for higher estradiol levels which might actually hamper breast growth paradoxically. I had lots of breast growth well before really much of any hair growth although the balder you are, the more you notice any new hair. Unfortunately, others around us do not notice such cosmetically insignificant hair and pretty much, it tends to be quite "expensive" hair in terms of effort required and cost to maintain.

These are all just things that I have noticed and aren't firm rules or anything but come from reading the earlier parts of the thread when things were still snapping along. And try to be positive, seriously. There's a lot of gloom and doom on here right now that is not being sufficiently countered by things like pic posting. I read several new theories about bica daily on here so I am recommending this to all of my MtF friends interested in bica saying, "it's all bica; all of the time!"

Pray to Goddess above,
Janey

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Continue to post updates, the most interesting thing is ahead: new hair should increase in diameter and become longer. I wonder how long it takes. But I guess it takes 2 years for the growth line to fully recover. I hope by the end of this year your hair will be thicker and longer and you will be Norwood 0.
It would also be interesting to know about the side effect: how has the face changed, the redistribution of fat?

I estimate at least 24 months to go from a situation of being bald/balding say NW4 or worse, to hair of normal cis-female length, meaning at least having achieved a hair length below the ears and generally, in the best of cases, incredible regrowth and restoration along with much improved manageability and quality if everything comes together.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Hi Junely, I was wondering what your HRT and hair loss cocktail was, I tried looking through the forums but it’s hard for new users to navigate.

I wanted to know if you were able to regrow your frontal hairline without using minoxidil, because I want to regrow my hairline as much as possible without using Min, because I was thinking the gains would be more permanent.

I don't think that HRT hair restoration works that way. There's no finasteride hair or min hair. It's all just hair with dormant follicles partially or fully re-invigorated. If you use min to regrow your hairline while on HRT, my prediction is that you won't need min to maintain as long as you stay on HRT but you might not be able to have full success on HRT without using finasteride and min and some other meds perhaps. All of these notions about finasteride hair and min hair overlook the fact that both together might effectuate improvements and perhaps synergistic ones.

 

[Almas]

I estimate at least 24 months to go from a situation of being bald/balding say NW4 or worse, to hair of normal cis-female length, meaning at least having achieved a hair length below the ears and generally, in the best of cases, incredible regrowth and restoration along with much improved manageability and quality if everything comes together.

There are enough such examples on the forum. But I will be the first to use HRT as a Norwood 1 with severe hairline thinning. It would seem that the situation is simple. However, the hairline and temples are terribly amenable to therapy, and Ikarus has never been able to repair the area. There is a point of no return when the hair can no longer be restored. I hope I haven't overcome it.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

There are enough such examples on the forum. But I will be the first to use HRT as a Norwood 1 with severe hairline thinning. It would seem that the situation is simple. However, the hairline and temples are terribly amenable to therapy, and Ikarus has never been able to repair the area. There is a point of no return when the hair can no longer be restored. I hope I haven't overcome it.

I disagree about the hair line being more difficult to restore for MtF's necessarily as opposed to cis-males, for whom it does present either great or impossible challenges. I have seen no data indicative of a hard fall off from which recovery is impossible but it probably becomes more difficult with age. Microneedling and oral min might make a difference in these hairs. I have had strong regrowth at the hairline and I see hundreds of new hairs growing in the temple areas although most are still too small to be cosmetically significant but it further illustrates the time needed for complete improvement. I said 12 to 24 months but it might be that 36 months is more apt in terms of recovery time to a decent length.

For the truly bald, HRT is likely to be less of a sprint and more of a marathon and most cis-guys can't do this at the hormonal levels needed for up to two to three years to see cosmetically significant results. This might be the reason for the seemingly far better results encountered by MtF's since they have nothing else to do and nowhere to go except pretty much to continue with HRT for its other benefits.

 

[Almas]

I disagree about the hair line being more difficult to restore for MtF's necessarily as opposed to cis-males, for whom it does present either great or impossible challenges. I have seen no data indicative of a hard fall off from which recovery is impossible but it probably becomes more difficult with age. Microneedling and oral min might make a difference in these hairs. I have had strong regrowth at the hairline and I see hundreds of new hairs growing in the temple areas although most are still too small to be cosmetically significant but it further illustrates the time needed for complete improvement. I said 12 to 24 months but it might be that 36 months is more apt in terms of recovery time to a decent length.

For the truly bald, HRT is likely to be less of a sprint and more of a marathon and most cis-guys can't do this at the hormonal levels needed for up to two to three years to see cosmetically significant results. This might be the reason for the seemingly far better results encountered by MtF's since they have nothing else to do and nowhere to go except pretty much to continue with HRT for its other benefits.

The frontal lobe has an aromatase deficiency and is therefore more difficult to repair. Have you ever thought that recovery never starts from the forehead, but comes from the top of the head? The longer your hair has been damaged, the longer you will need to use HRT.
If I went back in time, I would tell myself to start HRT last year when my hair was almost perfect. I think I would have easily achieved the ideal in 3 months