Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[KNemo]

That's interesting, so basically you have no need for any AAs. How's your gyno BTW, is it bad?

I use a sports bra but it's not too bad. Nipples haven't changed much so breast reduction surgery would make me look like a normal dude.

 

[Jacob Williams]

Did you had any blood test done recently?

No from what I can tell a complete hormone screening is something like $600.

 

[Solxama]

I use a sports bra but it's not too bad. Nipples haven't changed much so breast reduction surgery would make me look like a normal dude.

That's good to hear, maybe it will be similar with me if I manage to keep my weight low. I've heard HRT can make you hungry and that it's easier to gain weight on it, but I'll try to do my best and stick to my healthy diet and exercises.

 

[Get my hair back]

It's the finasteride dose. Estradiol dose is 200mcg patches plus some gel mixed into topical minoxidil which is enough to reduce testosterone to castrate levels and raise estradiol to around 200pg/ml.
Have greatly improved my diffuse thinning, totally recovered a bare vertex bald spot and significantly improved hairline.
Recently reduced doses for a while returning to a good male testosterone level without any sign of shedding.

I'll update the regimen for clarity.

I am surprised how it is possible to reduce T to the level of castration with a plaster and gel, I am sure that this is impossible. Did you do the analysis? I take 6 mg of estradiol and my T level is higher than castration, and the E2 level is 110pg / ml.

 

[KNemo]

I am surprised how it is possible to reduce T to the level of castration with a plaster and gel, I am sure that this is impossible. Did you do the analysis? I take 6 mg of estradiol and my T level is higher than castration, and the E2 level is 110pg / ml.

Have done 5 tests, first pretreatment showing normal testosterone, then 3 tests after 6 months or so all showing very low testosterone, finally a test recently after reducing the dose for a few months showing normal testosterone.
Stable levels for a longer time seems to be the key to suppress without extreme doses.

 

[Solxama]

Have done 5 tests, first pretreatment showing normal testosterone, then 3 tests after 6 months or so all showing very low testosterone, finally a test recently after reducing the dose for a few months showing normal testosterone.
Stable levels for a longer time seems to be the key to suppress without extreme doses.

Reading all of this on hairlosstalk makes most of my worries slowly disappear. Lower doses of any medication are generally safer, so hearing that I can nuke my T without extreme dosage is very nice. Once I start my new regimen, I aim to do hormone tests every 3 months of being on it, so I can monitor my levels closely, also I'll be doing liver functions as I'll be taking Bica.

To be honest I'm starting to think that the people way back in this thread are right, androgens are poison for people with certain genetics, and I'm one of them. Hair loss is one thing, but also my skin is very demanding, plus I hate the mental effects of Testosterone, like the aggression and the annoying T fueled sex drive.

Anyway, I got some news for everybody, my doctor gave me a prescription for 3 boxes of Finasteride. I will go to the Pharmacy tomorrow to buy them and I'll start taking it straight away. My supply should last 84 days, as the Fina sold in my country for balding is 28 1mg pills per box.

I also found Bica and Estrogel in very good prices online. Bica I will buy in 150mg pills that I will cut up, and Estrogel I will get from Otokonoko Pharmaceuticals, apparently beside being a bit unorthodox, people on reddit and 4chan say the products there are legit and good. All in all, my regimen should cost about 500-600$ a year, I think that's a very good price for potential hair regrowth.

 

[Get my hair back]

Do not take biku it is a useless thing for hair, you will ruin your health, and there will still be no result from it. When I was on a hard course, I took a lot of sh*t (estradiol, dutasteride, progesterone, bicalutamide, ciproterone) A few months ago, I canceled everything, leaving only estradiol and did not notice the difference, it turns out that I took all this sh*t in parentheses for nothing, killing my health!

 

[Solxama]

Do not take biku it is a useless thing for hair, you will ruin your health, and there will still be no result from it. When I was on a hard course, I took a lot of sh*t (estradiol, dutasteride, progesterone, bicalutamide, ciproterone) A few months ago, I canceled everything, leaving only estradiol and did not notice the difference, it turns out that I took all this sh*t in parentheses for nothing, killing my health!

When deciding on my new regimen, I wanted something to surely nuke most of my Androgens. So in theory it should work something like this, 5-ARI blocks DHT, AA blocks all Androgens and Estradiol stimulates growth and also blocks some T. Wouldn't the dose of Estradiol be much bigger without an AA for good regrowth as a lot of Androgens would still be present in the body?

Also the reason I chose Bica is that it looks the best on paper, it has the least side effects compared to other AAs (It does have a big risk of gyno, but I'll be getting that with E anyway.), and it's not that liver wrecking as Cyproterone for example. But If I do feel very unwell, or if my liver functions blood test shows something bad, then I will drop Bica and maybe go with just E.

Thank you for your concern and your suggestion, but for now, I'm going to go with the whole regimen, as it looks promising and other people earlier in this thread have had massive success with a 5-ARI, AA and E2 combination.

Now for a little story to give you an idea how bad my country is when it comes to treating hair loss. No pharmacy in my town sells Fina, so I had to look for it in the closest bigger city, 30km away. I found a pharmacy that's got it, but they only have one box in stock, and I can't buy one now and the others later because of some bureaucratic nonsense. So now I have to wait till tomorrow for them to order more boxes and only then can I buy my prescribed amount. And after that, I will have to hide the Fina from my mum before I leave to the UK, as she's opposed to even the weakest hormone modification drugs, using the whole "real man" cliche as an excuse. I love her dearly so I don't want to argue with her, but I'm so glad to be leaving soon. Why can't people understand the pain of loosing hair at a young age, it makes me so sad

 

[Get my hair back]

Most of what they write flood, ludi, being insured, eat everything that in theory should help, but in fact, much of the regime can be deducted as useless.
By the way, all experienced transgender people do not take antiandrogens.
I myself used to think like you, antiandrogens + E2 work synergistically, but in practice this is not the case.
It is not necessary to reduce T to zero, it is not necessary to block A receptors to zero. All that is needed is to catch the balance of T and E2.
I will not teach you how to act, you yourself have to go this way to understand.

 

[Solxama]

Most of what they write flood, ludi, being insured, eat everything that in theory should help, but in fact, much of the regime can be deducted as useless.
By the way, all experienced transgender people do not take antiandrogens.
I myself used to think like you, antiandrogens + E2 work synergistically, but in practice this is not the case.
It is not necessary to reduce T to zero, it is not necessary to block A receptors to zero. All that is needed is to catch the balance of T and E2.
I will not teach you how to act, you yourself have to go this way to understand.

So you are saying that E2 alone is enough to regrow hair to a satisfactory state? I know about the trans people using E2 only, even some online pharmacies state that monotherapy is the best way for feminization. But I'm not trans, I'm looking at this from a hair angle. And after all this disease is called Androgenic Alopecia, and a lot of scientific evidence points to the fact that all Androgens, not only DHT but also T play a role in hair loss, especially in people with over sensitive genes, like me. So going with that line of thought I decided that I want to rid my body of all Androgens as much as I can for at least 9-12 months. But I won't lie, what you are saying is intriguing, I think you are the first person here saying that they use only Estradiol without anything else. There are people who don't use AAs, but they still use 5-ARIs from what I gathered going through this thread.

 

[Get my hair back]

I have the most sensitive receptors)) and a severe form of Androgenetic Alopecia, it would be funny if it were not true.
When I started the course I had grade 6 hair loss, for this reason I need more estradiol than you probably need.
I have tried different schemes of Androgenetic Alopecia therapy and I can say for sure one E2 is enough. But the dose for everyone will be individual.
But here's the caveat: there are those for whom nothing helps and nothing can be done about it. I hope you won't be one of them.

 

[Solxama]

I have the most sensitive receptors)) and a severe form of Androgenetic Alopecia, it would be funny if it were not true.
When I started the course I had grade 6 hair loss, for this reason I need more estradiol than you probably need.
I have tried different schemes of Androgenetic Alopecia therapy and I can say for sure one E2 is enough. But the dose for everyone will be individual.
But here's the caveat: there are those for whom nothing helps and nothing can be done about it. I hope you won't be one of them.

Well I managed to slow it down by using only natural means : Vitamins, Shampoo, Spearmint Tea, CBD oil. Of course it's still progressing, and If I do nothing more then what I'm doing now, I will fully loose my hair in the next 2-3 years. Anyway, the point is that if natural means worked to slow it down, then I hope that an extreme regimen will be enough to regrow a big amount of my hair.

 

[Experimentality]

When deciding on my new regimen, I wanted something to surely nuke most of my Androgens. So in theory it should work something like this, 5-ARI blocks DHT, AA blocks all Androgens and Estradiol stimulates growth and also blocks some T. Wouldn't the dose of Estradiol be much bigger without an AA for good regrowth as a lot of Androgens would still be present in the body?

Also the reason I chose Bica is that it looks the best on paper, it has the least side effects compared to other AAs (It does have a big risk of gyno, but I'll be getting that with E anyway.), and it's not that liver wrecking as Cyproterone for example. But If I do feel very unwell, or if my liver functions blood test shows something bad, then I will drop Bica and maybe go with just E.

Thank you for your concern and your suggestion, but for now, I'm going to go with the whole regimen, as it looks promising and other people earlier in this thread have had massive success with a 5-ARI, AA and E2 combination.

Now for a little story to give you an idea how bad my country is when it comes to treating hair loss. No pharmacy in my town sells Fina, so I had to look for it in the closest bigger city, 30km away. I found a pharmacy that's got it, but they only have one box in stock, and I can't buy one now and the others later because of some bureaucratic nonsense. So now I have to wait till tomorrow for them to order more boxes and only then can I buy my prescribed amount. And after that, I will have to hide the Fina from my mum before I leave to the UK, as she's opposed to even the weakest hormone modification drugs, using the whole "real man" cliche as an excuse. I love her dearly so I don't want to argue with her, but I'm so glad to be leaving soon. Why can't people understand the pain of loosing hair at a young age, it makes me so sad

Bicalutamide is actually a non-pure AR antagonist. Upon binding it actually promotes the translocation of the AR into the nucleus. Bicalutamide then causes a conformational change of the AR that changes the way the AR induces gene transcription. Most genes associated with the AR will not be transcribed, but it has not been assessed what the exact composition is. There is some anecdotal evidence floating around that Bica does not hamper muscle synthesis by leaving some of the anabolic components of the AR intact. It may be that some part of the androgenic components of the AR are left intact as well. Pure antagonists are Apalutamide, Enzalutamide and Darolutamide. They do not promote translocation of the AR: the AR will simply do nothing and there will be no genetic transcription (at least not in non-mutated cells).

@Get my hair back. E2 downregulates AR expression. With saturation dosages (which for oral use is just dose dependent, which means higher doses cause more AR suppression) the AR will be extensively downregulated. Furthermore, oral E2 suppresses androgen levels so there are less ligands to bind the ARs that are left. Basically a two-punch effect. A pure AA will never hurt for hair, but they are in deed not exactly healthy. Nor are supraphysiological doses of E2 (or any hormone for that matter).

 

[Norwoody]

Bicalutamide is actually a non-pure AR antagonist. Upon binding it actually promotes the translocation of the AR into the nucleus. Bicalutamide then causes a conformational change of the AR that changes the way the AR induces gene transcription. Most genes associated with the AR will not be transcribed, but it has not been assessed what the exact composition is. There is some anecdotal evidence floating around that Bica does not hamper muscle synthesis by leaving some of the anabolic components of the AR intact. It may be that some part of the androgenic components of the AR are left intact as well. Pure antagonists are Apalutamide, Enzalutamide and Darolutamide. They do not promote translocation of the AR: the AR will simply do nothing and there will be no genetic transcription (at least not in non-mutated cells).

@Get my hair back. E2 downregulates AR expression. With saturation dosages (which for oral use is just dose dependent, which means higher doses cause more AR suppression) the AR will be extensively downregulated. Furthermore, oral E2 suppresses androgen levels so there are less ligands to bind the ARs that are left. Basically a two-punch effect. A pure AA will never hurt for hair, but they are in deed not exactly healthy. Nor are supraphysiological doses of E2 (or any hormone for that matter).

This makes sense and is evidenced by Tato's continued muscle gains while on this drug. I believe there is still a big concern with dosing and the risk of gyno, however?

@Experimentality is anything known about scalp estrogen, or aromatase? I haven't seen anyone really talk much about these.

 

[Solxama]

@Experimentality , I'm constantly amazed by your knowledge

So if I'm understanding this correctly, Bica might leave some parts of the AR intact. Could this also mean that the AR in the scalp might also remain intact, thus creating the risk of Bica not fully working for hair loss? After reading this thread, and going thorough the AAs available online, I found Bica to be the safest one, but if I'm understanding your post correctly, this means it might not be the best choice for hair.

What about Cyproterone acetate, would that be a better choice for hair? From what I gathered it not only blocks the AR, but also reduces the amount of Androgens created, thereby being basically chemical castration, also Bridge apparently went with it as his starting AA, and his results as we all know are great. But to be honest CPA is apparently very heavy on the liver, so that's one of the reasons I would prefer to go with Bica.

 

[Solxama]

A little update for everybody, I got my three boxes of Fina today and I'm about to take my first pill. I won't count this as the first day of my new regimen, as that will happen when I get my hands on the other components.

But despite this being just a small step, I still consider this moment symbolic for myself. I hope it's going to be the start of another major chapter in my life, a chapter of seriously saving my hair, of victory over my family's curse and that it will lead to me being happier and being able to fully express myself not in a way others demand of me, but in a way that aligns with how I really feel.

Edit due to reactions : Is it really that surprising that I'm serious about this lol, I wouldn't be on here if I was joking. Fina is just the start, I'm going to go all the way with this, HRT will join my regimen. It's no longer a question of if but when. To hell with gyno, libido, society and gender roles, I'm gonna get my hair back .

 

[Experimentality]

This makes sense and is evidenced by Tato's continued muscle gains while on this drug. I believe there is still a big concern with dosing and the risk of gyno, however?

@Experimentality is anything known about scalp estrogen, or aromatase? I haven't seen anyone really talk much about these.

I have not encountered any research that relates scalp aromatase to hair growth, but logically I would say more aromatase = more E2 = more AR suppression = better for hair. Dexamethasone upregulates aromatase expression (as do other topical gluco-corticosteroids), but it cannot be used long term because of the skin atrophy it causes over time. There have been some threads on HairLossTalk.com about this actually (I believe by @Georgie). I think there is currently no sustainable way to upregulate aromatase in the scalp. Which leaves providing the ligand (E2) directly by topical application.

@Solxama. Bica is questionable in my opinion. Bica's unique mechanism makes it unpredictable, but it is effective in prostate cancer while not heavily mutated. If you are going to do the oral route I would just go for E2. Out of all options, it is the most benign for your health (that should be taken with a grain of salt, since none of these drugs are actually healthy. That is also given you are running physiological dosages i.e. within female reference range). Adding finasteride or dutasteride should be alright especially in comparison to E2. If you do opt to run Bica I would get your liver enzymes checked every 3 months at least. I would also get your hormones checked at baseline, one month, two months, three months and then every six months (the every six months to one year check should apply to everyone regardless of any drugs you are taking. Do not cut corners on your health). Finally, I want to stress that I am not a physician and nothing I say should be adopted without consulting a doctor first.

Regarding CPA. I would encourage you to read this page. At the low doses mentioned in that article, it seems relatively benign. If you want to nuke T without using extreme dosages of E2 it seems like a reasonable choice to run at low dosages (check the article). While it does block the AR it also has a (proven) intrinsically agonistic activity at the AR. You should not run CPA as AA for exactly that reason, at low dosages this effect seems negligible. I should mention that I am not an expert on these agents as I would never use them myself. I think others can help you out better if you have any more questions about them.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

So you are saying that E2 alone is enough to regrow hair to a satisfactory state? I know about the trans people using E2 only, even some online pharmacies state that monotherapy is the best way for feminization. But I'm not trans, I'm looking at this from a hair angle. And after all this disease is called Androgenic Alopecia, and a lot of scientific evidence points to the fact that all Androgens, not only DHT but also T play a role in hair loss, especially in people with over sensitive genes, like me. So going with that line of thought I decided that I want to rid my body of all Androgens as much as I can for at least 9-12 months. But I won't lie, what you are saying is intriguing, I think you are the first person here saying that they use only Estradiol without anything else. There are people who don't use AAs, but they still use 5-ARIs from what I gathered going through this thread.

I have been telling everyone on here that AA's are not necessary since I signed on. AA's for the most part only exist to reduce the amounts of estradiol needed to reach levels. The reason that one used to especially limit estradiol/estrogens is because the main two medications with an estradiol-like structure, were one synthetic, in ethinyl estradiol or two, contained substantial non-human equine estrogens. These were much less safe in terms of blood clots and liver damage.

Those two meds continue most likely to be the highest sold HRT/birth control meds in the world but virtually everyone with means or access uses bio-identical estradiol. AA's appear to do very little for hair growth sans estrogen and what they do do, is probably by raising estrogen itself. To his credit, Almas went round and round on this issue with me and with a couple of other folks that I don't see on here as much anymore, one of them an intern to be a physician in Brazil. You can grow hair fine with AA's but no one has articulated any process by which they might be necessary save for those who don't respond to estrogen. AA's might get a person to limits quicker but patches and injections and Estrogel probably do this as quickly as anyone might want.

I do use dutasteride/finasteride but that is for DHT, not testosterone lowering. Duta/finasteride both seem to be inclined to raise T some. DHT also to a certain extent provides a floor should things not proceed in terms of hair loss. There's zero reason to believe in my estimation that low-dose estradiol is better for hair results than is high dose. Low-dow is indicated for those seeking the best breast growth possible. High-dose seems to feminize more quickly for facial feminization and hair. But most XY's probably don't want either facial feminization or breasts and Bridge got both, large amounts of both, and he used large amounts of AA's.

Most people on HRT believe that AA's are tools, somehow, arrows in our quiver to chase or modify results. They are not and adding an extra med might not hurt but again it might but you actually know less about what is going on with the more implicated meds. Anyone thinking about only AA's, as was even recent thought on here six months back, should desist. It won't work to regrow hair and it might led to a massive shed. To do this, optimally, you need one "male" med, dutasteride, one female med, estradiol, one hair growth med, minoxidil and everyone should microneedle once weekly. If there are signs of inflammation and for shed control, add keto.

That's far more simplified than trying to manage AA and estradiol dose. Do those four things/steps and it either works or it doesn't. There appears to be no other way, save Serms, which present even more meds that are uncertain in effect to deal with.

 

[Norwoody]

Yeah, the thing some might not fully register is that, estrogen practically IS an AA.

 

[Get my hair back]

Yeah, the thing some might not fully register is that, estrogen practically IS an AA.

Not only this is due to its cosmetic effect, as mentioned above, estradiol works in different directions, it can be added that it also increases growth factors, such as igf-1. In general, it has a wide range of effects.
Simply put, estradiol modulates a favorable environment for hair growth.