Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Almas_NW0]

Well, Bicalutamide is not very kind to the liver on long-term protocols. There are many other (safer) options available to get great looking skin i.e. vitamin A (Accutane), Progesterone, DHEA, Pregnenolone or even E2 if one desires to use it.

Estradiol is undesirable because it is not suitable for long-term use due to feminization. Bicalutamide is better for this. It has also been approved for the treatment of hirsutism in women. Excessive androgenic activity is also present in men, so I believe that it can be used in such cases to improve the skin, oily skin, and reduce body vegetation. I turned into a hairy bald orc with ugly skin until I started treatment
Accutane is also not suitable for continuous use, it is expensive, and topical adapalene does not reduce the oily skin.

 

[Gynobro237]

the autor of this topic is a MTN or not with this regimen ?
He is a girl or a boy ?
could him get a child with a women or not ?

I'd guess so, trans feminine non-binary; or feminine eunuch as a gender identity.
Estrogen, how it affects fertility varies. trans women can get other women pregnant if they still have the tools to do it. Thats why female-to-male trans people can get pregnant. Hormones only do so much. Personally an unilateral orchie and finasteride for a year made me infertile. Like i still had the tools but i was apparently fire blanks which is nice to know. And that was just finasteride by itself. I'm kind of bummed out because the option for biological kids is ruled out if i ever could find a surrogate.
after i went the full shotgun approach and now im an infertile 23 year old man taking blackmarket estrogen hoping itll save one of the only things that used to be redeeming about my appearance. Its a loosing fight sometimes i convince myself that i see regrowth, but its actually miniaturized. im starting to think its because i burned through all the anagen cycles i was genetically predisposed to have, anagen phase is like 2-8 years in women. its much shorter in men and closer to 1-3, women are basically not going to bald up until there 70's hell i've seen women that age and their hair is denser than mine at my peak in my earlier 20's. so, i bet my hair is on it last legs most of which in their telogen stage since i probably burned through all my anagen cycles. even if im castrate on a hormonal level, i can at best have another 8 years having hair before im going to lose it all. my father was like Norwood 4/5 by the time he was 25 so, i have at best until im 30. not a reason to live anymore.

 

[MrSnow]

I'd guess so, trans feminine non-binary; or feminine eunuch as a gender identity.
Estrogen, how it affects fertility varies. trans women can get other women pregnant if they still have the tools to do it. Thats why female-to-male trans people can get pregnant. Hormones only do so much. Personally an unilateral orchie and finasteride for a year made me infertile. Like i still had the tools but i was apparently fire blanks which is nice to know. And that was just finasteride by itself. I'm kind of bummed out because the option for biological kids is ruled out if i ever could find a surrogate.
after i went the full shotgun approach and now im an infertile 23 year old man taking blackmarket estrogen hoping itll save one of the only things that used to be redeeming about my appearance. Its a loosing fight sometimes i convince myself that i see regrowth, but its actually miniaturized. im starting to think its because i burned through all the anagen cycles i was genetically predisposed to have, anagen phase is like 2-8 years in women. its much shorter in men and closer to 1-3, women are basically not going to bald up until there 70's hell i've seen women that age and their hair is denser than mine at my peak in my earlier 20's. so, i bet my hair is on it last legs most of which in their telogen stage since i probably burned through all my anagen cycles. even if im castrate on a hormonal level, i can at best have another 8 years having hair before im going to lose it all. my father was like Norwood 4/5 by the time he was 25 so, i have at best until im 30. not a reason to live anymore.

only with fina ? are you kidding me ?

 

[Solxama]

I'd guess so, trans feminine non-binary; or feminine eunuch as a gender identity.
Estrogen, how it affects fertility varies. trans women can get other women pregnant if they still have the tools to do it. Thats why female-to-male trans people can get pregnant. Hormones only do so much. Personally an unilateral orchie and finasteride for a year made me infertile. Like i still had the tools but i was apparently fire blanks which is nice to know. And that was just finasteride by itself. I'm kind of bummed out because the option for biological kids is ruled out if i ever could find a surrogate.
after i went the full shotgun approach and now im an infertile 23 year old man taking blackmarket estrogen hoping itll save one of the only things that used to be redeeming about my appearance. Its a loosing fight sometimes i convince myself that i see regrowth, but its actually miniaturized. im starting to think its because i burned through all the anagen cycles i was genetically predisposed to have, anagen phase is like 2-8 years in women. its much shorter in men and closer to 1-3, women are basically not going to bald up until there 70's hell i've seen women that age and their hair is denser than mine at my peak in my earlier 20's. so, i bet my hair is on it last legs most of which in their telogen stage since i probably burned through all my anagen cycles. even if im castrate on a hormonal level, i can at best have another 8 years having hair before im going to lose it all. my father was like Norwood 4/5 by the time he was 25 so, i have at best until im 30. not a reason to live anymore.

My father was Norwood 7 at 25 so you got better genes then me lol. Don't give up faith and experiment with different meds and dosages, something is bound to help!

 

[Gynobro237]

only with fina ? are you kidding me ?

No, im am not kidding. Its called ejaculatory insufficiency, fina does two things increase testosterone and in excess it gets converted to estradiol and its pretty much final since no enzyme exists to convert estradiol back into testosterone, thats why people get dead dick syndrome on finasteride. and if you use fina long enough it will cause your prostate to atrophy decreasing the volume of semen you produce, infertile in the sense that one, cant actually produce enough of the liquid and the other that because i was tested and fire blanks. I used to take 1mg of finasteride and it didn't work, i was only a hyper responder because i got the side effects of the drug without the actual drug working for my hair. Decided was enough before i started the shotgun approach.

My father was Norwood 7 at 25 so you got better genes then me lol. Don't give up faith and experiment with different meds and dosages, something is bound to help!

as much as i wish it weren't i was looking at pictures of my old provisional liscense and it looks like i had nw3 in the pic. that was like, 4 years ago. so not even 20 i was already fucked. its worse now and i cry having mental breakdowns because i am reminded that it literally makes me ugly and unattractive to men so i am basically going to die alone. literally, as soon as my crown is completely gone im ending it. can't take min because angina and blood pressure medication. dont respond topically to min. cant do anything.

 

[Almas_NW0]

Get tested for hormone levels and check if they correspond to the desired values of T and E. If your T<50ng/dl, and E>200pg/ml, the chances that you will continue to go bald are rather small.

 

[franzliszt]

Same here, don't they call autogynephillia? I never felt like a woman however used to enjoy backhanded complements that were supposed to be demeaning about my appearance. Stuff like eh, skinny or chicken legs. Even developed an ED because of it an became emaciated because I thought it made me more attractive. I suppose my "dysphoria" renders as a need to be youthful since my own warped perception perceives that as what men think is attractive. So shocker when hairloss became a factor, thats when i got bitten by the trans bug.

I took a shotgun approach to hairloss, still losing ground.
Why did god gift me these genes? My androgen receptors are so potent even estrogen agonizes them.
I'm screwed.

I had the same result initially, until I started limiting my calorie intake, and cutting out refined sugar and saturated fats. The feeling of hunger seems to trigger results, reducing sebum production, beast tenderness coming back and hair feeling healthier. If you're not getting results from HRT, I encourage you to do the same.

 

[Solxama]

Although I disagree with @Yar and his theories over food being more important then hormones, the above advice is good when combined with HRT. Also test your levels like Almas suggested. The worst thing is to give up @Gynobro237 , don't do it. Think positive and do everything you can. Pump as much AAs and Estrogen you can safely handle, eat well and make sure your levels are good and you should get your hair back.

I believe in you, even if you doubt yourself.

Good luck

 

[Almas_NW0]

There is no point in using low doses of E. There is no point in using the CPA. Why choose the shittiest of antiandrogens? Do not do useless and harmful things

T<50ng/dl, E>200pg/ml
Injections + bica + finasteride — the best way. However, you can use other methods as well, as long as the levels are appropriate. Don't try to use half measures, you will be wasting your time and hair.
Based.

 

[Solxama]

Nothing seems to be working so I've decided to go hardcore and experiment with CPA and estradiol. Just started 1 mg. topical estradiol today but been on 25 mgs./day of CPA for the past couple weeks. Hair still falling out like crazy, for those of you that had success with CPA how long did it take before you guys saw a reduction in shedding?

Good luck. I myself started CPA 2 weeks ago and haven't got much shedding. I had some before tho after starting Estradiol.

There is no point in using low doses of E. There is no point in using the CPA. Why choose the shittiest of antiandrogens? Do not do useless and harmful things

T<50ng/dl, E>200pg/ml
Injections + bica + finasteride — the best way. However, you can use other methods as well, as long as the levels are appropriate. Don't try to use half measures, you will be wasting your time and hair.
Based.

Some people can't take Bica due to liver issues. Plus CPA isn't that bad, it also reduces Androgen production, and is pretty safe in low doses, maybe even more then Bica.

 

[Norwoody]

CPA? Laughable.

 

[Gynobro237]

CPA? Laughable.

CPA is only effective in large doses for men that are gone past a certain age. They call it "andropause" when men get older their endogenous testosterone production gets nuked to about 2/3rds of what it used to be in their prime; not enough to be hypogonadal but on the low end of normal. So they can take CPA between 50-200mg and get in the castrate ranges of testosterone, some that call themselves "eunuchs" they'll take it as a chemical castration trial before they go for a gonadectomy; they do it to be free from having the desire for "intimacy". The thing is its not effective in younger men, your testosterone peaks in your 20's so cutting it by 70% with CPA ain't gonna do much. Prior to hrt, my testosterone was 842ng/dl and cutting that with CPA alone would put me somewhere in the 300-400ng/dl range, which is far from 210ng/dl and lower that is "hypogonadal".

Plus CPA raises prolactin which can and can't cause hairloss from what I have read. If you wanted to be taking "hrt", you could experiment with bicalutamide so long as it doesn't destroy your liver. I think a load of crackpot diy trans people suggest about 150-300mg of bicalutamide with a serm like raloxifene with a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor to stop the free testosterone from converting into dht. Personally I am not going to do that, since nobody that I know from "other" places are on a regimen so brutal. I think I will stick to estrogen pills, dutasteride and spironolactone, maybe switching to injections at a later date.

 

[Almas_NW0]

In fact, you can only take injections and finasteride. If your T<50ng/dl, then AAs are probably not needed. But I take Bicalutamide as a safety net because I don't want to risk it.

 

[Solxama]

CPA is only effective in large doses for men that are gone past a certain age. They call it "andropause" when men get older their endogenous testosterone production gets nuked to about 2/3rds of what it used to be in their prime; not enough to be hypogonadal but on the low end of normal. So they can take CPA between 50-200mg and get in the castrate ranges of testosterone, some that call themselves "eunuchs" they'll take it as a chemical castration trial before they go for a gonadectomy; they do it to be free from having the desire for "intimacy". The thing is its not effective in younger men, your testosterone peaks in your 20's so cutting it by 70% with CPA ain't gonna do much. Prior to hrt, my testosterone was 842ng/dl and cutting that with CPA alone would put me somewhere in the 300-400ng/dl range, which is far from 210ng/dl and lower that is "hypogonadal".

Plus CPA raises prolactin which can and can't cause hairloss from what I have read. If you wanted to be taking "hrt", you could experiment with bicalutamide so long as it doesn't destroy your liver. I think a load of crackpot diy trans people suggest about 150-300mg of bicalutamide with a serm like raloxifene with a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor to stop the free testosterone from converting into dht. Personally I am not going to do that, since nobody that I know from "other" places are on a regimen so brutal. I think I will stick to estrogen pills, dutasteride and spironolactone, maybe switching to injections at a later date.

Together with Estrogen you only need 12.5mg of CPA to fully nuke T. Or even less apparently.

Low Doses of Cyproterone Acetate Are Maximally Effective for Testosterone Suppression in Transfeminine People

Low Doses of Cyproterone Acetate Are Maximally Effective for Testosterone Suppression in Transfeminine People by Aly

transfemscience.org

 

[Experimentality]

CPA is only effective in large doses for men that are gone past a certain age. They call it "andropause" when men get older their endogenous testosterone production gets nuked to about 2/3rds of what it used to be in their prime; not enough to be hypogonadal but on the low end of normal. So they can take CPA between 50-200mg and get in the castrate ranges of testosterone, some that call themselves "eunuchs" they'll take it as a chemical castration trial before they go for a gonadectomy; they do it to be free from having the desire for "intimacy". The thing is its not effective in younger men, your testosterone peaks in your 20's so cutting it by 70% with CPA ain't gonna do much. Prior to hrt, my testosterone was 842ng/dl and cutting that with CPA alone would put me somewhere in the 300-400ng/dl range, which is far from 210ng/dl and lower that is "hypogonadal".

Plus CPA raises prolactin which can and can't cause hairloss from what I have read. If you wanted to be taking "hrt", you could experiment with bicalutamide so long as it doesn't destroy your liver. I think a load of crackpot diy trans people suggest about 150-300mg of bicalutamide with a serm like raloxifene with a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor to stop the free testosterone from converting into dht. Personally I am not going to do that, since nobody that I know from "other" places are on a regimen so brutal. I think I will stick to estrogen pills, dutasteride and spironolactone, maybe switching to injections at a later date.

Solxama is right, your first point regarding CPA is not true and dangerous advice. CPA is actually an extremely potent progestogen, and by this mechanism, it potently surpresses the HPT axis. CPA is a moderately potent antiandrogen, so in order to make use of it's AA effects, you'd need to dose higher (the range you suggested). However, the risk for hyperprolactinemia increases in this range. CPA should probably only be used as progestogen to surpress HPTA, and not as AA. You could throw in a low dose Bica to block the little androgens you'd still have left after low dose CPA.

Your other points are correct, all the pharmaceuticals mentioned are not intended for long term use at such dosages (except in the case of cancer patients, which are, on average, much older and likely won't have decades to go relying on those drugs). Finasteride is the exception (although there is no real long term data available either).

 

[Gynobro237]

Solxama is right, your first point regarding CPA is not true and dangerous advice. CPA is actually an extremely potent progestogen, and by this mechanism, it potently surpresses the HPT axis. CPA is a moderately potent antiandrogen, so in order to make use of it's AA effects, you'd need to dose higher (the range you suggested). However, the risk for hyperprolactinemia increases in this range. CPA should probably only be used as progestogen to surpress HPTA, and not as AA. You could throw in a low dose Bica to block the little androgens you'd still have left after low dose CPA.

Your other points are correct, all the pharmaceuticals mentioned are not intended for long term use at such dosages (except in the case of cancer patients, which are, on average, much older and likely won't have decades to go relying on those drugs). Finasteride is the exception (although there is no real long term data available either).

Based on my own experience ofcourse, it is not supposed to be advice. I'm taking from what i learned from my own experiences. People from an eunuch forum suggest 200mg as a chemical castration trial which imo is overkill which is why i said 50-200 and that is monotherapy not with an additional estrogen. Some people are able to reduce the amount after being on the drug for some time where being on such a dose doesn't pose anymore benefit; the drug has a relatively long half-life so usually it's taken with an estrogen at 25mg every other day which works out to be like 12.5mg everyday. Heck, some trans women are able to reduce it down to 6.25mg and keep their testosterone in low ranges.

"Eunuchs" are a different story though, they do a chemical castration trial for about 3-6 months taking said dose i said in my original reply which isn't long enough to have lasting effects on physical health besides a prolactinoma that goes away on its own after discontinuation. I got this information from the eunuch archive and after the chemcast trial they decide whether to go full hrt or gonadectomy with trt. To say any drug is safe is a mistake I made on my part and I should have clarified more. But if you don't believe what I said thats understandable since a forum of self-proclaimed castration aficionados isn't the most reliable of places to get your information from and it is to be a fool to draw conclusions like the ones I made.

Nothing i said should be taken as advice, and the next time i should make that clarification and that i maybe wrong and always willing to stand corrected.

 

[subsidence82]

These high doses of spironolactone should be concerning to anyone willing to try this nuclear option. That crap taxes the heck out of your kidneys. You’ll be taking a leak every hour. Too each their own, I guess to some men hair loss is worth their changing their physical appearance and adding female secondary sex characteristics. Crazy F’rs. Maybe someday the phara companies look deeper into the estrogen trick and pull a non feminized protocol outta the hat. Millions of men will flock.

 

[Solxama]

Based on my own experience ofcourse, it is not supposed to be advice. I'm taking from what i learned from my own experiences. People from an eunuch forum suggest 200mg as a chemical castration trial which imo is overkill which is why i said 50-200 and that is monotherapy not with an additional estrogen. Some people are able to reduce the amount after being on the drug for some time where being on such a dose doesn't pose anymore benefit; the drug has a relatively long half-life so usually it's taken with an estrogen at 25mg every other day which works out to be like 12.5mg everyday. Heck, some trans women are able to reduce it down to 6.25mg and keep their testosterone in low ranges.

"Eunuchs" are a different story though, they do a chemical castration trial for about 3-6 months taking said dose i said in my original reply which isn't long enough to have lasting effects on physical health besides a prolactinoma that goes away on its own after discontinuation. I got this information from the eunuch archive and after the chemcast trial they decide whether to go full hrt or gonadectomy with trt. To say any drug is safe is a mistake I made on my part and I should have clarified more. But if you don't believe what I said thats understandable since a forum of self-proclaimed castration aficionados isn't the most reliable of places to get your information from and it is to be a fool to draw conclusions like the ones I made.

Nothing i said should be taken as advice, and the next time i should make that clarification and that i maybe wrong and always willing to stand corrected.

I think Eunuch forums are not what most people have in mind when talking about these extreme regimens in the context of hair lol. The transfeminine approach is simply better in terms of hair. If somebody is willing to nuke their androgens to regain hair, risking gyno anyway, I see no reason why not to combine Estrogen with an AA. It's safer and more effective then AA monotherapy.

 

[Solxama]

These high doses of spironolactone should be concerning to anyone willing to try this nuclear option. That crap taxes the heck out of your kidneys. You’ll be taking a leak every hour. Too each their own, I guess to some men hair loss is worth their changing their physical appearance and adding female secondary sex characteristics. Crazy F’rs. Maybe someday the phara companies look deeper into the estrogen trick and pull a non feminized protocol outta the hat. Millions of men will flock.

Yeah, a non systematic Estrogen solution would be basically the cure for Androgenic hair loss. But we got to work with what we got for now, plus what's crazy for one person can be seen as desired by another, so like you said, too each their own.

And I agree with the spironolactone thing, It's not the best Antiandrogen, If I were forced to use it I'd prefer trying Estrogen monotherapy first. Thankfully CPA seems to be well tolerated by my body.

 

[MrOscar]

@Experimentality how is going with topical E2 microdosing?
Thanks!