Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed

[pegasus2]

So I've known about this thread for 2 years and still nothing has been really nailed down yet. I'll just drop my experience..

I've been using a derma pen 1.5mm, average of 1.5 times a month for 2 years and my hair has gotten slightly worse. The only topical I've been using is reviv with their two additives (anti-gray and minoxidil analogue). Not one thing in this routine appears to be doing a damn thing; every aspect has gotten slightly worse.

I can do 2.5mm but it hurts too much to do enough passes to make the scalp nicely wounded and (lastingly) red. I guess I'll try going down to .8 and spending exponentially more time, more passes. For me, .8 is basically pain-free. Even 2.5 is not at all bothersome, specifically in the crown and the low temple near the ear. There are just no pain receptors in those areas. But the frontal scalp, the upper temple that actually tends to recede, or anything near the forehead...that all hurts badly once you go above 1.5.

So I have yet to try a more follica-like method (<1 mm and extreme thoroughness). Till now I have assumed depth is better for reviving the follicles but that's been sufficiently proven false.

I only have diffuse thinning so you'd think needling in a hair-occupied area would make it easier to get some re-density but no. One thing I may have pinpointed is collagen supplementation. My hair was arguably recovering density in 2020, when I first started using a pen and I was taking collagen powder once a day.

Side notes from needling the face

- I had a large melanin spot (sunspot, or whatever) on my cheekbone and it has disappeared from needling. It was about half the size of a dime, not terribly dark, nothing that people have ever pointed out, but I noticed it.

- Needling has done absolutely nothing for increasing facial hair density. I'm a clean shaven/stubble only guy, so I don't actually care about that, just saying.

I don't have a ton of gray or very visible gray since I have light hair. I think I have a slightly low metabolism and low thyroid function. I am a young looking person and the hair is aging faster than everything else. This is why I'm trying hard to address the problem holistically/nutritionally and topically, because being a norwood guy wouldn't suit me. I'll get FUE if my methods don't work adequately. I don't have norwood 7 genes so I can avoid it all together with surgery if nothing else works.

Historically, balding men had faces that suited that look.A lot of guys today have my situation but a lot worse, maybe NW3-4 with the face of a 20-something. That I believe is a deeper nutiritional/environmental issue and not so much 'androgenetic.' I don't believe 'androgenetic alopecia' is the correct name for our issue in a general sense.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Taking all the studies together, there is a signal of benefit from needling without minoxidil, but in practice it doesn't do much. To get good results from microneedling, minoxidil is a must. As you've experienced, wounding density is far more important than depth. I agree with you that there are things that speed up Androgenetic Alopecia today. It still requires certain genes, but things like steroid use, p**rn, or perhaps metabolic syndrome could trigger it early and increase severity.

It's also interesting that collagen supplementation seemed to aid your results. One of the best results I've seen from needling was someone using collagen powder and minoxidil.

I've tried pretty much everything with needling. What worked best for me was using a Derminator2 with 12 needle cartridges, 1mm depth at the fastest setting. I moved it slowly across the entire NW7 area and 1 inch around the perimeter, for about 30 minutes in total until my whole scalp was red als had some minor pinpoint bleeding. I did this every 2 weeks. IME it is the optimal protocol, but you can use a faster device than the D2 and spend less time on it. I noticed MASSIVE shedding of small vellus hairs within days on this protocol, soon followed by regrowth.

 

[Xenophon]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Taking all the studies together, there is a signal of benefit from needling without minoxidil, but in practice it doesn't do much. To get good results from microneedling, minoxidil is a must. As you've experienced, wounding density is far more important than depth. I agree with you that there are things that speed up Androgenetic Alopecia today. It still requires certain genes, but things like steroid use, p**rn, or perhaps metabolic syndrome could trigger it early and increase severity.

It's also interesting that collagen supplementation seemed to aid your results. One of the best results I've seen from needling was someone using collagen powder and minoxidil.

I've tried pretty much everything with needling. What worked best for me was using a Derminator2 with 12 needle cartridges, 1mm depth at the fastest setting. I moved it slowly across the entire NW7 area and 1 inch around the perimeter, for about 30 minutes in total until my whole scalp was red als had some minor pinpoint bleeding. I did this every 2 weeks. IME it is the optimal protocol, but you can use a faster device than the D2 and spend less time on it. I noticed MASSIVE shedding of small vellus hairs within days on this protocol, soon followed by regrowth.

I don't think I've ever caused even pinpoint-bleeding at any depth. If I can ever make myself bleed I'll take it as a good sign. My circulation is poor in some ways, most noticeable in my occasionally ice cold nose.

I have about had it with Reviv's products at $54 a month. It's all le science but no in vivo results.

 

[surfer9]

I am NW6, I can feel a lot, although thin covering of vellus hairs throughout the top of my scalp. I am wondering if I died them with a hair dye if they might actually stand out. I have SMP and buzzcut my head. Would be good to give it a slight extra boost if I could make a difference by dying them. I will try it and see.

Currently also 2 months into taking Minoxidil.

Not expecting anything as I am so far gone. May also get on Propecia at some point. Give it a year, prob won't get any results and give up. I did 1 micro-needling session, prob need to do more as that was ages ago I last did it.

 

[_N_]

Pegasus what do you think of more frequent sessions as advocated here for skin needling by Dr Des Fernandes?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/der2.13

 

[Xenophon]

I am NW6, I can feel a lot, although thin covering of vellus hairs throughout the top of my scalp. I am wondering if I died them with a hair dye if they might actually stand out. I have SMP and buzzcut my head. Would be good to give it a slight extra boost if I could make a difference by dying them. I will try it and see.

Currently also 2 months into taking Minoxidil.

Not expecting anything as I am so far gone. May also get on Propecia at some point. Give it a year, prob won't get any results and give up. I did 1 micro-needling session, prob need to do more as that was ages ago I last did it.

If I use that Just for Men 'Control GX' shampoo it gets rid of all the gray and adds really natural color. I have borderline blond/brown hair and use the lightest shade they have. You have to leave it on for maybe 10 minutes or so. Do that daily for a week. Actual hair dye sucks in my experience. It always has some awful brass/red tone so it requires a second toning product. This shampoo I use sometimes doesn't have that issue at all.

 

[bsmith]

I actually live near Follica, in Pennsylvania. Would anybody be interested if I could get an interview with them?

 

[genericwhitemale]

I actually live near Follica, in Pennsylvania

I hear it's lovely this time of year

 

[Lurker otto]

One thing I may have pinpointed is collagen supplementation. My hair was arguably recovering density in 2020, when I first started using a pen and I was taking collagen powder once a day

Hi! Can you elaborate about collagen supplementation?

 

[baldlygoing]

Pegasus what do you think of more frequent sessions as advocated here for skin needling by Dr Des Fernandes?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/der2.13

Interesting. I wonder if biweekly did, in fact, mean twice a week as Pegasus alluded to in a previous comment.

 

[Remi12456]

Hi, Can someone you summarize the video. I did not understand. Thx you for the help!

It's also interesting that collagen supplementation seemed to aid your results. One of the best results I've seen from needling was someone using collagen powder and minoxidil.

May we have more infos on it?

 

[_N_]

Hi, Can someone you summarize the video. I did not understand. Thx you for the help!

one of the growth factors induced by skin wounding reaches a higher level with more frequent wounding, however wounding at a high density as fernandes does is not always practical.

I doubt that the guys needling their hair every day are reaching a very high density as it takes quite a time

May we have more infos on it?

 

[hrplz]

I think PureTech released their annual report a little early (though it doesn't say "annual report"): https://puretechhealth.com/images/PRTCCorpPresentation.pdf

Negatives: nothing really new
Positive...ish: still targeting Phase 3 in 2022 (but yes, we've heard this story before)

 

[glammetal]

Thanks for the post I guess when they say phase 3 trials are anticipated in 2022 they mean 12-31-2022

 

[Xenophon]

Hi! Can you elaborate about collagen supplementation?

Just work it into your daily meals. It's very important to get broad aminos into your diet, like glycine, which is abundant in a scoop of a good collagen powder. It's a powerful systemic anti-inflammatory. Moderate protein with collagen supp (or cooking with bones all the time) plus subsisting on mostly carbs is optimal for hair growth. The hair follicle can't really grow with fat metabolism, it needs glucose metabolism. The typical diet is too high in muscle meat and probably too high in fat. If starch or bread or rice or potatoes cause serious reactions, focus on fruit and juice and sugared coffee. I've noticed these kind of paleo-ish eaters who deadlift and look nice, like Tim Ferriss, are always bald. I see those kinds of guys at the gym. 38 years old, white, well off middle class, decent muscle, probably crossfit-adjacent lifting, probably owns a juicer, eats avocados and sweet potatoes. A lot of the nutrition is correct, but raw vegetables — especially crucifers — are terrible for thyroid functioning, which, along with a lot of fat in the blood, is a good way to lose your hair.

My age-related baldness first became a problem to address during the time in which I adopted low carb, high protein/fat eating.

There's a good playlist here on baldness research.

https://www.youtube.com/c/DannyRoddyweblog/playlists

I also don't see how androgens are the root cause. Pattern baldness very obviously correlates with androgen levels on the inverse — as your androgens linearly decline from 16 to 60, your hair follicles decline linearly. It's daft to even call it 'androgenic alopecia' or 'androgenetic' (I see both, so don't know which one it officially is). Just because DHT blockers locally halt hair loss in a modest degree doesn't make that name legitimate. Therefore I simply call it pattern baldness. There is no correlation between basal androgen levels and hairloss, nothing 'masculine' about being bald (except it's distinctively male in an aesthetic and superficial sense), and nothing is 'lacking' in balding guys either, as far as masculinity, androgen levels, toughness, or anything like that. It's not 'androgenic alopecia.' That is totally stupid and incorrect.

 

[glammetal]

I am kind of dissapointed.I expected them to give an exact date in 2022 that they would begin phase 3 trials.I think they will postpone it to 2023.I wish i am wrong though

 

[hrplz]

I am kind of dissapointed.I expected them to give an exact date in 2022 that they would begin phase 3 trials.I think they will postpone it to 2023.I wish i am wrong though

Still possible they may provide a date - their previous reports were clearly labeled “annual reports” so perhaps something new comes out tomorrow. Guess we’ll know in a little bit.

 

[glammetal]

Well their next report is in August 2022.

 

[Kagaho]

I don't think they have a superior product to what we can already achieve with Minoxidil and an Electric Dermastamp

 

[ajax]

Started needling last year but didn't stick to it and now can't remember what to do. I'll be using a derminator 2.

Do I go round in circles or straight lines?

Steralise the needles in alcohol beforehand, for 10 mins?

No minoxidil for 24 hours... Didn't do this once last time and it made me feel pretty unwell.

Anything else I've forgotten / need to know?

 

[cryingariver]

Follica is a meme at this point.

Funny how these doctors come out of the woodwork and just embarrass themselves. Dr. Cotsarelis, and that Brotzu character... Complete embarrassments. Cotsarelis has been saying sh*t for years... still waiting for a product.