Hair is not Life but it's Pretty Damn Close; HRT and Pictorial Posts Prove it.

[JaneyElizabeth]

Hello @JaneyElizabeth thank you very much for responding! I am using Oral Finasteride+Topical Finasteride+ Topical Minoxidil and the Topical Estriol solution.

How much estriol are you taking? It's hard to equilibrate estradiol and estriol since they have different strengths and preferred receptors. Also how did you get a test with all of those break-downs, I only get T and E2 basically. Is there a special test I should ask for?

Also, maybe someone knows a bit about prolactin? I don't get that on my breakdown either.

 

[GRme11]

How much estriol are you taking? It's hard to equilibrate estradiol and estriol since they have different strengths and preferred receptors. Also how did you get a test with all of those break-downs, I only get T and E2 basically. Is there a special test I should ask for?

Also, maybe someone knows a bit about prolactin? I don't get that on my breakdown either.

I am taking 0.97mg/ml and I am applying about 3 ml. For the blood tests, I am doing them privately. It depends what you need to check, I would suggest Prolactin like you said. I just did PSA and 3a-Diol-G and 17-OHP for example, to check the backdoor pathway and at least to check the Finasteride effect. Aboust Estradiol, should I purchase Bi-Estro? I think that this low Estradiol levels are pretty bad for hair. Also, I think I should increase my Vit D levels, right? Also the DHT bounce, seems pretty odd... But fluctuations can happen, especially to hormones. Thank you very much!

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

How has dutasteride been treating ya? any sides, shedding, etc, to note?

No, I have never had issues with anything ever except spironolactone. That's how I know that it is nasty stuff. Some people seem to tolerate it.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I am taking 0.97mg/ml and I am applying about 3 ml. For the blood tests, I am doing them privately. It depends what you need to check, I would suggest Prolactin like you said. I just did PSA and 3a-Diol-G and 17-OHP for example, to check the backdoor pathway and at least to check the Finasteride effect. Aboust Estradiol, should I purchase Bi-Estro? I think that this low Estradiol levels are pretty bad for hair. Also, I think I should increase my Vit D levels, right? Also the DHT bounce, seems pretty odd... But fluctuations can happen, especially to hormones. Thank you very much!

I have insurance but I guess I would just ask them to add these extra things. Seems like there would be a name but I will ask my practitioner. Some people who are Dr. Will Powers's followers get all of these extra levels and hormones checked.

I might try to write some on the "backdoor pathway". It seems like something pretty complicated. I have a week now of Castor Oil of which I was dubious but it is cheap and the taste is bland rather than horrible. One thing is that so many of us have these extended stacks to the point where it can be very difficult to know which med or treatment is doing what. I added oral minoxidil around October 18th of last year and I was already having good progress before then and it seemed great and now I am adding Castor Oil. Everything seems to be working together well.

I think that we all need to monitor our Vitamin D levels especially because of being indoors so much but I can't link Vitamin D to hair restoration that I have seen. If we go through the fora, people are often mentioning different vitamins and phytochemicals, zinc for example but most of our daily vitamins have zinc and Vitamin D.

A lot of this is easier from an MtF point of view because we can usually tell if we are re-masculinizing. I have never bothered about DHT levels because dutasteride and finasteride worked so well for me before I added MtF HRT meds.

I think that for cis-guys, slow titration is key and to keep monitoring any unwanted body effects. Assuming my protocol works, I have posted three different protocols, with the two main ones by @bridgeburn that I believe could work for most people if they have the inclination. But it all seems to come back to sheds. If sheds are only benevolent some of the time and riding them out doesn't appear to work or be a solution for other reasons, then we are flailing a bit, which I already noticed on the @bridgeburn thread. So many folks were shedding and two people contacted me that they couldn't manage their shedding on pretty much any of the hormonal meds, including minoxidil and duta.

I am puzzled and frustrated for these folks. I continue to monitor MtF fora for clues but we can pretty much throw the kitchen sink at the baldness issue. I loved Bi-estro and would still use it on my face and hair although I prefer pure estradiol and the OTC estradiol product has about 7 days worth for me.

If any form of estrogen works for a person on the scalp and/or face for MtF's then keep doing what works and titrate gradually. My main worry for you is that I spent a lot of time in the salt mines, almost four years doing DIY mostly with Biestro. A couple of times I bought Estrogel, Premarin and spironolactone online but I didn't know about all of the off-shore sources back then. If you look at my pics on the hair and transition blog, I do think there were visible improvements but I could still see my incipient bald spot under bad lighting and my other improvements were barely cosmetically significant even in a male context.

I will see about maybe talking some about Bayesian Analysis and how that can inform people looking for a protocol. That's my main goal, to establish protocols where Joe Schmoe can look at say, four different protocols and say, "ah, this is the one with the amount of risk, I am willing to take". There are also issues with banking sperm. Anyone contemplating having children soon should bank sperm, even though all of this seems largely reversible except for breast grouwth.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

High-dose estrogen therapy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Why Most Hair Loss Topicals Fail To Regrow Hair - Perfect Hair Health

Why do Rogaine and emu oil slow hair loss sometimes, but not always? Gene expression and target mechanisms. Here's why most hair loss topicals fail us.

perfecthairhealth.com

 

[GRme11]

I have insurance but I guess I would just ask them to add these extra things. Seems like there would be a name but I will ask my practitioner. Some people who are Dr. Will Powers's followers get all of these extra levels and hormones checked.

I might try to write some on the "backdoor pathway". It seems like something pretty complicated. I have a week now of Castor Oil of which I was dubious but it is cheap and the taste is bland rather than horrible. One thing is that so many of us have these extended stacks to the point where it can be very difficult to know which med or treatment is doing what. I added oral minoxidil around October 18th of last year and I was already having good progress before then and it seemed great and now I am adding Castor Oil. Everything seems to be working together well.

I think that we all need to monitor our Vitamin D levels especially because of being indoors so much but I can't link Vitamin D to hair restoration that I have seen. If we go through the fora, people are often mentioning different vitamins and phytochemicals, zinc for example but most of our daily vitamins have zinc and Vitamin D.

A lot of this is easier from an MtF point of view because we can usually tell if we are re-masculinizing. I have never bothered about DHT levels because dutasteride and finasteride worked so well for me before I added MtF HRT meds.

I think that for cis-guys, slow titration is key and to keep monitoring any unwanted body effects. Assuming my protocol works, I have posted three different protocols, with the two main ones by @bridgeburn that I believe could work for most people if they have the inclination. But it all seems to come back to sheds. If sheds are only benevolent some of the time and riding them out doesn't appear to work or be a solution for other reasons, then we are flailing a bit, which I already noticed on the @bridgeburn thread. So many folks were shedding and two people contacted me that they couldn't manage their shedding on pretty much any of the hormonal meds, including minoxidil and duta.

I am puzzled and frustrated for these folks. I continue to monitor MtF fora for clues but we can pretty much throw the kitchen sink at the baldness issue. I loved Bi-estro and would still use it on my face and hair although I prefer pure estradiol and the OTC estradiol product has about 7 days worth for me.

If any form of estrogen works for a person on the scalp and/or face for MtF's then keep doing what works and titrate gradually. My main worry for you is that I spent a lot of time in the salt mines, almost four years doing DIY mostly with Biestro. A couple of times I bought Estrogel, Premarin and spironolactone online but I didn't know about all of the off-shore sources back then. If you look at my pics on the hair and transition blog, I do think there were visible improvements but I could still see my incipient bald spot under bad lighting and my other improvements were barely cosmetically significant even in a male context.

I will see about maybe talking some about Bayesian Analysis and how that can inform people looking for a protocol. That's my main goal, to establish protocols where Joe Schmoe can look at say, four different protocols and say, "ah, this is the one with the amount of risk, I am willing to take". There are also issues with banking sperm. Anyone contemplating having children soon should bank sperm, even though all of this seems largely reversible except for breast grouwth.

Thank you very much @JaneyElizabeth ! I will see what I will do further. Maybe I will invest in Bi-Estro Cream and fix my Vit D levels. I have also other treatments at the back of my mind (experimental) but I need to reassess the new ones (Estriol or Bi-Estro etc). Thanks again.

 

[Jonny Craig]

Who all is using biestro (estriol-estradiol) or estriol?

How is it going?

 

[thetdog666]

Seborrhoeic Dermatitis continues to me to appear to be a significant part of the hair loss puzzle. Speaking of being puzzled, as I find some dermatitis on my nose when I have essentially zero testosterone. It might be linked to the oral minoxidil but I am uncertain. I am now establishing a firm dosage of oral minoxidil at 12.5 mg which is found at the .25 ml mark on a metric dropper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seborrhoeic_dermatitis
Eunuchs, owing to their low androgen levels and small sebaceous glands, do not develop seborrheic dermatitis.[17]

Hi, what would be the best way to treat Seborrhoeic Dermatitis or do you think this is something else? I have yellow/brownish dots at my hair follicles where my hair is miniaturizing like in the photo iv attached.

Here is a link on more info regarding these dots https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5674712/

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Hi, what would be the best way to treat Seborrhoeic Dermatitis or do you think this is something else? I have yellow/brownish dots at my hair follicles where my hair is miniaturizing like in the photo iv attached.

Here is a link on more info regarding these dots https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5674712/

I appreciate the question but that might be beyond my expertise but if you can describe a bit more how it relates to your overall situation, someone might have more knowledge about the scalp version. Here is an article I have been considering: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6369642/

It indicates that Head and Shoulders and other zinc-based shampoos might increase hair quality and counts as does Keto. Anti-fungals are part of the hair loss solution and often overlooked as being merely cosmetic (anti-dandruff).

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Who all is using biestro (estriol-estradiol) or estriol?

How is it going?

Some of the folks using estriol hang out more on the threads that are more risk-averse in terms of feminization. You are going to have to see how it goes for you.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Castor Oil:
I continue with my second week of taking Castor Oil at about 1/3 of a tablespoon which is ~5ml. It's hard to explain but it seems nice although I take so many meds it can be hard to know. Taste is bland but I think this might have effects fairly quickly in terms of improving hair quality. It's hard for me to know exactly how but it might loosen the scalp according to the dates and plates guy and what's the deal with that site name? He is very pro-Castor Oil. Of course, he has so much hair that I am not sure how he evaluates all of these things either.

 

[GRme11]

I think I will stop Estriol here. Yesterday I reached the Second Month Mark, applying it topically 4 times per week. Hair these days don't feel good, maybe it does more harm than good to me? Who knows.. What I was able to see regarding results, I felt like my shedding reduced but this could be from Finasteride as well because now I am on it 1 year (I hit the 1 year mark early January--Orally), and a very low feeling of hair thickness. If I want to reintroduce Estrogen path, I will probably go with Bi-Estro this time. I know that the dosage of my topical Mix is not even close to this that other members using (I am only using about 1 mg/ml--started with 0.5mg for about 2 and half weeks-- and I am applying about 3ml each time). If I see that it did a job, I will jump back to it and I will consider Bi-Estro as well. Also, some interesting posts:

"I use it most days of the week (the estriol from Life-Flo health from iHerb). No estrogenic side effects, in fact some days it seems to give me more energy, possibly through displacing the stronger estrogens from the estrogen receptor and acting as an anti-estrogen, in a sense (due to estriol being so weak, think similar to how RU competes for the androgen receptor but has very little to none androgenic activity of its own, thus being antiandrogen)."

"You wouldn't likely get estrogenic sides from estriol, in fact, I noticed the opposite. It made me feel more androgenic, and that's not likely to be good for hair. I guess because the strong estradiol is displaced from the estrogen receptor by the weaker estriol, the overall estrogenic activity on the body is in fact even reduced..." ---- That's very interesting here, could DHT leved up by this? I don't think we can really say but my Estradiol levels became lower so...

These are some responses from the Diffrent Type of Estrogens promote hair growth thread. @Jonny Craig you said that you felt similar to this?? (answering to the previous post)

"I am using bi-estro care still (estriol + estradiol) and yes, I can attest to this. Also using it alongside Progesterone this time.

Wake up with massive erections, libido is up, feel great.

It does also seem to be working for hair though, in the sense that shedding is wayyyyy down, and new hairs are popping up in hairline"


I am so confused... Thank you very much for your time. (@Jonny Craig excuse me for the reference, I hope you won't bother)

 

[Norwoody]

From what I've gathered on the estrogen thread, estriol (and perhaps a very small dose of estradiol like is in bi-estro) is theoretically a good option for men who are trying to avoid gyno and other sexual sides because it has a higher affinity for the beta receptors (linked with hair growth) while having a lower affinity for the alpha receptors (linked with breast growth, cancer, hair miniaturization). Estradiol has a much greater affinity for both receptors - perhaps this is why @JaneyElizabeth has experienced some massive sheds but has also seen massive regrowth. I surmise that this is why estriol or bi-estro users probably need some kind of anti-androgen in their regimen, while those on estradiol may not need one at all. Estradiol seems to be so strong that the estrogenic environment it creates on the scalp becomes even more dominant than the androgenic, something @JaneyElizabeth has also mentioned before. Bi-estro seems like a great option for a lot of people because you get a touch of estradiol (which also has a longer half-life than estriol). In short, estriol seems like a good growth agonist but a very weak androgen antagonist (or perhaps even a weak agonist according to some, as @GRme11 quoted), whereas estradiol has the full picture but that also includes the sides.

 

[Derelict]

From what I've gathered on the estrogen thread, estriol (and perhaps a very small dose of estradiol like is in bi-estro) is theoretically a good option for men who are trying to avoid gyno and other sexual sides because it has a higher affinity for the beta receptors (linked with hair growth) while having a lower affinity for the alpha receptors (linked with breast growth, cancer, hair miniaturization). Estradiol has a much greater affinity for both receptors - perhaps this is why @JaneyElizabeth has experienced some massive sheds but has also seen massive regrowth. I surmise that this is why estriol or bi-estro users probably need some kind of anti-androgen in their regimen, while those on estradiol may not need one at all. Estradiol seems to be so strong that the estrogenic environment it creates on the scalp becomes even more dominant than the androgenic, something @JaneyElizabeth has also mentioned before. Bi-estro seems like a great option for a lot of people because you get a touch of estradiol (which also has a longer half-life than estriol). In short, estriol seems like a good growth agonist but a very weak androgen antagonist (or perhaps even a weak agonist according to some, as @GRme11 quoted), whereas estradiol has the full picture but that also includes the sides.

Im thinking of adding 2mg estriol oral to my regimen, might give it a few months but something im willing to try in the future maybe.

 

[Norwoody]

The questions I still have about estrogen are in regards to the upregulation/downregulation and the point of diminishing or adverse returns. If you're on estriol, does this stimulate the pituitary to generate more estradiol to compensate for the presence of the exogenous weaker estrogen? Or does it just downregulate estrogen altogether? What happens if you try the same thing with estradiol? What about low doses or high doses? I would be pretty reluctant to try high doses or any oral doses since this is a primary hormone being used exogenously. It could end up making you more androgenic or more estrogenic permanently, and then you are on some form of replacement therapy for life. This is what happens to bodybuilders and such who use testosterone and steroids. Of course, it doesn't happen to all of them if they use conservative dosages, time their cycles appropriately, do proper post-cycle therapy, and don't do it year after year. Sex hormones are very tricky.

 

[GRme11]

From what I've gathered on the estrogen thread, estriol (and perhaps a very small dose of estradiol like is in bi-estro) is theoretically a good option for men who are trying to avoid gyno and other sexual sides because it has a higher affinity for the beta receptors (linked with hair growth) while having a lower affinity for the alpha receptors (linked with breast growth, cancer, hair miniaturization). Estradiol has a much greater affinity for both receptors - perhaps this is why @JaneyElizabeth has experienced some massive sheds but has also seen massive regrowth. I surmise that this is why estriol or bi-estro users probably need some kind of anti-androgen in their regimen, while those on estradiol may not need one at all. Estradiol seems to be so strong that the estrogenic environment it creates on the scalp becomes even more dominant than the androgenic, something @JaneyElizabeth has also mentioned before. Bi-estro seems like a great option for a lot of people because you get a touch of estradiol (which also has a longer half-life than estriol). In short, estriol seems like a good growth agonist but a very weak androgen antagonist (or perhaps even a weak agonist according to some, as @GRme11 quoted), whereas estradiol has the full picture but that also includes the sides.

I agree with what you are saying. My dose about Estriol though, I believe it is not enough, other members are using way much higher than this. Maybe I should have used it everyday due to the short half-life but I am also using Topical Minoxidil and Topical Finasteride and it would have been a hassle I guess. Maybe I will add Bi-Estro in the future. From my Blood Tests though my E3 increased plus my DHT, while my E2 went down more (I mention this because of your very interesting questions below about upregulation/downregulation etc.). Thank you.

I think this response answers something about upregulation/downregulation of the receptors? "You wouldn't likely get estrogenic sides from estriol, in fact, I noticed the opposite. It made me feel more androgenic, and that's not likely to be good for hair. I guess because the strong estradiol is displaced from the estrogen receptor by the weaker estriol, the overall estrogenic activity on the body is in fact even reduced..."

 

[GRme11]

Im thinking of adding 2mg estriol oral to my regimen, might give it a few months but something im willing to try in the future maybe.

I have oral pills as well (1mg dose--That's how I was making my Solution-Crushing them add Ethanol,rest the mixture, the other day PPG etc.) but how much likely it would be to have a positive effect? I am saying this because I am thinking that is better to upregulate the ERβ receptor on the scalp immediately/directly through topical solution or cream. I don't know if the pill is capable of doing so, but probably I could be totally wrong here.

 

[Norwoody]

Logically I would say your estriol obviously had to increase because that's what you were taking. Estradiol probably went down because you had an overall increase in estrogens, thus your body figured it didn't need to produce as much of the more potent kind. But since your body still increased estrogen, in the form of E3 in this case, then either this stimulated more 5AR to produce DHT to prevent the T from aromatizing, or your aromatase activity decreased because it is getting some estrogen supplied exogenously, or perhaps a bit of both. Now, if you increased the dosing, who knows, but since E3 is weaker than E2, I could see the body responding by increasing E2, possibly decreasing endogenous E3, if the dose is high enough. But yeah IMO topical is probably the way to go, even if you were trans and taking estrogen orally I suspect that you should also be taking it topically since the goal for hair is addressed in the local tissues.

 

[Jonny Craig]

I think I will stop Estriol here. Yesterday I reached the Second Month Mark, applying it topically 4 times per week. Hair these days don't feel good, maybe it does more harm than good to me? Who knows.. What I was able to see regarding results, I felt like my shedding reduced but this could be from Finasteride as well because now I am on it 1 year (I hit the 1 year mark early January--Orally), and a very low feeling of hair thickness. If I want to reintroduce Estrogen path, I will probably go with Bi-Estro this time. I know that the dosage of my topical Mix is not even close to this that other members using (I am only using about 1 mg/ml--started with 0.5mg for about 2 and half weeks-- and I am applying about 3ml each time). If I see that it did a job, I will jump back to it and I will consider Bi-Estro as well. Also, some interesting posts:

"I use it most days of the week (the estriol from Life-Flo health from iHerb). No estrogenic side effects, in fact some days it seems to give me more energy, possibly through displacing the stronger estrogens from the estrogen receptor and acting as an anti-estrogen, in a sense (due to estriol being so weak, think similar to how RU competes for the androgen receptor but has very little to none androgenic activity of its own, thus being antiandrogen)."

"You wouldn't likely get estrogenic sides from estriol, in fact, I noticed the opposite. It made me feel more androgenic, and that's not likely to be good for hair. I guess because the strong estradiol is displaced from the estrogen receptor by the weaker estriol, the overall estrogenic activity on the body is in fact even reduced..." ---- That's very interesting here, could DHT leved up by this? I don't think we can really say but my Estradiol levels became lower so...

These are some responses from the Diffrent Type of Estrogens promote hair growth thread. @Jonny Craig you said that you felt similar to this?? (answering to the previous post)

"I am using bi-estro care still (estriol + estradiol) and yes, I can attest to this. Also using it alongside Progesterone this time.

Wake up with massive erections, libido is up, feel great.

It does also seem to be working for hair though, in the sense that shedding is wayyyyy down, and new hairs are popping up in hairline"


I am so confused... Thank you very much for your time. (@Jonny Craig excuse me for the reference, I hope you won't bother)

One of my buddy used bi-estrocare and he had incredible libido, terrific erections, like when he was a teenager.. sex with his gf was never greater. Also he noticed great skin, etc. He noticed shedding was wayyyy down on it as well.

This is true. Not sure why exactly, but he stopped taking it after while for fear of how estrogen will harm him longterm.

I don't know if it is unequivocally good for hair, I really don't... I have not used it for long enough to say, I think.

When I started using bi-estrocare on testicles instead of applying topically (because I wasn't sure if it was legit) I started getting really itchy nipples, so itchy that it was ridiculous, lol. So I had stopped.