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@IdealForehead ; according to your data , how much duta raise oestradiol ?
How Different Types Of Estrogen Promote (and Hinder) Hair Growth
- Thread starter IdealForehead
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Well I found this study which reviewed the effect of finasteride vs. dutasteride in 99 healthy young men who took it for 1 year. Their findings are summarized as:
A total of 99 subjects, mean age 34 ± 8 years old, were randomized at baseline to receive 0.5 mg dutasteride (33), 5 mg finasteride (34) or placebo (32). As published previously dutasteride and finasteride significantly suppressed serum DHT compared with placebo (dutasteride 94%, finasteride 73%, p <0.001 for both compared with placebo), and transiently increased serum testosterone. However, there was no effect on circulating levels of serum estradiol, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone or sex hormone-binding globulin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684818/
So actually based on that research, there should be no significant effect on estradiol levels for either finasteride or dutasteride. Probably neither will make much of a difference.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684818/
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damn, this is crazy, because i took a lot of blood test . And while i am off fina/duta my oestradiol are under 20
and while on fina /duta thzy skyrocket to 40
and while on fina /duta thzy skyrocket to 40
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Wow that's a pretty big increase. You must just be sensitive to it then. The only risks I can imagine to the increased estrogen would be risks of gynecomastia, decreased sperm count, and sexual dysfunction. If you're not having any trouble with any of those problems, then I would just ignore the increased estrogen personally. It can only be likely good for your skin/hair. If you develop a problem from the increased estrogen, then you could consider an aromatase inhibitor to reduce it. Otherwise maybe just forget about it and keep taking the hair tabs if they're working.
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yes bro i got those symptom. one time my E2 were at 64!!
do you have any data to know if duta increases prolactin?
do you have any data to know if duta increases prolactin?
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Study of 48 men on finasteride 5 mg per day:
"No significant changes were noted in the serum levels of prolactin"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9589555
Were your prolactin levels elevated?
Michel, I think at the end of the day you're not going to find your answer in studies. You are having a unique response to the medication, and you will have to decide for yourself the best way to approach that.
Options as I see them:
- Continue dutasteride and ignore the increased estrogen, live with the side effects (but long term side effects can become permanent)
- Continue dutasteride and add an aromatase inhibitor to drop your estrogen.
- Drop to finasteride if you can tolerate it better and add some topical antiandrogens like RU, racemic equol, or if you are a risk taker daro.
- Stop oral medication and use a strong topical antiandrogen (eg. topical flutamide or daro).
- Stop all treatment altogether - not something you probably want to do, but just saying, it's always an option if the meds are intolerable.
At some point you're going to have to pick one and try it. It's all trial and error.
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my DHT us really low
i have high oestradiol even with low dose duta
and high prolactin
Does prolactin cause gyno too ?
i have high oestradiol even with low dose duta
and high prolactin
Does prolactin cause gyno too ?
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i will add low dose aromasin . Do you know a website which sell prefectly legit aromasin ?
I will try evopharmacy again , but it is quite expensive
I will try evopharmacy again , but it is quite expensive
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Prolactin definitely causes gyno. But are you sure the dutasteride is causing the elevated prolactin? ie. Does prolactin go back to normal when you stop the dutasteride? What did your doctor say?
You can read some bodybuilding stuff here about controlling prolactin:
https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/anabolic-steroids-peds/how-control-prolactin-314.html
Aromasin won't stop high prolactin levels. Then you need another tablet to control prolactin. That's getting too complicated and these drugs are serious ones that affect your pituitary/hypothalamus.
If I were you and I was experiencing these problems, I wouldn't do anything like that. That's getting too crazy. I would look into getting a topical antiandrogen. Eg. Even some topical flutamide would be much safer than taking a cocktail of three drugs (dutasteride, aromasin, something else for prolactin) and it should be effective.
I don't know anything about making topicals of any antiandrogens though other than RU and daro because those are the only two I've used. So if that's the route you want to go, I'd think about it and maybe make another thread to discuss your options there more specifically.
But if you definitely have high estradiol, and high prolactin, and both are caused by dutasteride, to me, that's an intolerable reaction to the medication and you ought to find another approach altogether.
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You don’t want to take an aromatase inhibitor. All of you who are using them to lower E are idiots. You are just f*****g with your chances of regrowing a hairline. Aromatase inhibition CAUSES RECESSION.
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my last resort will be dutasteride daily and extremely low dose aromasin : like 12.5 mg twice a week
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given my lab level i don't think i could get more result .
i already have fcking high level of oestradiol and low dht ; i should have result , but i have none this is strange
i already have fcking high level of oestradiol and low dht ; i should have result , but i have none this is strange
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Christ sake are you not reading what I said? If you take aromastim, you will be getting rid of an enzyme that you want. Use DIM.
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The other problem is as I said aromasin will not fix his elevated prolactin levels, so it's a losing battle. Dutasteride is not reacting well for him.
@michel sapin for what it's worth dutasteride was useless for me too, but for the opposite reason (did nothing in my body even at 2.5 mg/day). There is life after dutasteride if you seek it. Plenty of other agents to try. They just take some extra work.
If dutasteride is definitely the cause of increased estradiol and definitely the cause of increased prolactin, then it's time to move on.
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It’s ridiculous to entertain the idea of taking oral treatments if you are having systemic side effects period. Better off using topical fina, ru perhaps, even daro. You aren’t going to make things any easier by throwing counteractie e drugs at things to bypass an issue which could be easily solved in less invasive ways.
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That's fair, as long as it checks off one more box for you. But I can think of no plausible mechanism by which flutamide could work where dutasteride + daro + cypro and previously spironolactone have failed. And as I've said before, the type of hair loss you have does not fit the androgenic pattern ie. You have diffuse body hair loss, and women suffering from androgenic hair loss generally get hirsutism (increased facial and body hair) which is the opposite.
Sulfasalazine might not be a bad idea for a wild shot in the dark if autoimmune disease runs in your family. But if this is alopecia universalis, I would presume that would have shown up in one of your two biopsies. I think your autoimmune markers were also negative in the blood. And I think alopecia universalis is probably incredibly rare. So that again also becomes less likely.
Occam's Razor - You're a young girl with premature ovarian failure, using a birth control pill with artificial hormones that don't properly replace what you're missing, and you have a diffuse full body hair loss pattern that is similar to what women get in menopause. Simplest and most coherent explanation is still that your estrogen balance is severely fucked up and that's the bottom line to what's happening.
So although I'm sure I sound like a broken record, I hate to see people spinning their wheels and going nowhere while just suffering. I would strongly recommend you try to fix your estrogens before you lose another month on flutamide, lose another month on seti, lose another month on sulfasalazine, etc. Time is hair as you very well know. You still have lots but the sooner you can turn it around still the better.
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look at the result of the user peabody/adjjac ; he is obviously taking testosterone ,and AI to prevent gyno
But he is also taking high dose of duta with great result no gyno
But he is also taking high dose of duta with great result no gyno
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i don't trust the supplier of the drug such as RU
I only trust branded pharmacy
I only trust branded pharmacy
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I've been using the estriol cream on my face and hairline for 5 days now. My hairline is still receding. The shedding is still very bad. This means that my hairline, well my hair in general looks different from day-to-day. My hairline is like fluff. Also, i am getting some bad breakouts on my cheeks, chin, jawline and temples in the past 2 days. My mother saw me today and said “George your skin looks crap”. It does.
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I still think you need to stop Diane 35 and get on some regular estradiol/estriol instead. The fact that youre losing hair so rapidly is why I am suggesting you not wait or waste time on other approaches that have a very low chance of changing anything for you because they are very similar to other things you have already tried and failed with. I wish you would have already switched off it 2-3 months ago like we talked about so you'd already have 2-3 months of normal hormones.
We know with finasteride it usually takes around 3 months before shedding stops and this is considered the norm for effective hair treatments. It is the timeline I experienced on daro as well. The first 3 months even on a very effective treatment hair loss can accelerate from Telogen Effluvium.
Progress must therefore be judged in months not days. You will need at least 3-6 months of normal estrogen levels in the blood before you can know if that has fixed the issue.
I think you will keep losing hair at this rate as long as you keep taking ethinyl estradiol, and the shedding won't stop until at least 3 months after you stop the Diane.
Read about menopausal hair loss and it all sounds like you:
Menopause is a natural biological process that all women experience at some point in their lives. During this time, the body goes through numerous physical changes as it adjusts to fluctuating hormone levels. Many women have unpleasant symptoms during menopause, including hot flashes, mood swings, and insomnia. Hair loss is another common occurrence.
Most women experience overall hair thinning rather than noticeable bald spots. The thinning can occur on the front, sides, or top of the head. Hair may also fall out in large clumps during brushing and showering.
Research suggests that hair loss during menopause is the result of a hormonal imbalance. Specifically, it’s related to a lowered production of estrogen and progesterone. These hormones help hair grow faster and stay on the head for longer periods of time. When the levels of estrogen and progesterone drop, hair grows more slowly and becomes much thinner.
https://www.healthline.com/health/menopause/hair-loss#2
Most women experience overall hair thinning rather than noticeable bald spots. The thinning can occur on the front, sides, or top of the head. Hair may also fall out in large clumps during brushing and showering.
Research suggests that hair loss during menopause is the result of a hormonal imbalance. Specifically, it’s related to a lowered production of estrogen and progesterone. These hormones help hair grow faster and stay on the head for longer periods of time. When the levels of estrogen and progesterone drop, hair grows more slowly and becomes much thinner.
https://www.healthline.com/health/menopause/hair-loss#2
Diane 35 is not a proper treatment for menopausal estrogen deficiency. As we have reviewed in depth ethinyl estradiol does not replace the natural function of estradiol or estriol. Excessive, deficient, and imbalanced estrogen stimulation can all cause hair loss.
You need to fix this. Or accept that you will continue losing hair until you do.