You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
How to deal with side effects from Propecia
- Thread starter Ende
- Start date
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
Low SHBG wasn't expected. It got me thinking. Estrogen increases during treatment with finasteride. SHBG increases with estrogen, and enhances the estrogenic effects on the body, because it has greater affinity for androgens, especially DHT - which is the estrogen antagonist. When you quit because of side effects, you have a problem with excessive estrogen. A lot of the DHT which then gets produced, binds to SHBG, which in turn frees up MORE estrogen. Increased free testosterone, will lead to further increased estrogen level as well, because of aromatization. Then SHBG raises again, and you're fucked. What do you think, Mens Rea??epro said:i did it e2 too high, shbg too low
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
Well first and formost i'd like to see what epro's actual readings are. "Too low" is a little vague. I'd say "too low" is under 15 nmol/L, which i doubt is the case.
I do think, although the general rule of SHBG going up with estrogen rings true, the relationship isn't as strong in practice as in theory. I see incongruent levels of SHBG and E2 all the time.
The one thing, i guess, wrong with that feedback loop is that you say when there is a flow of DHT binding to more SHBG creating more free testosterone, in theory, then you can end up with "more estrogen". However, since given the fact that, as you noted, DHT is the estrogen antagonist, we don't really know where that leaves net estrogen levels as a result of this initial DHT surge (which should serve to reduce them). It seems to depend on the individual, really, doesn't it?
I honestly can't make any sense out of my own hormonal profile anymore so I'll not pretend the theory fits where it should. In Jan i read with high DHT, Testosterone, Estrogen AND SHBG. LOL.
Enden said:Low SHBG wasn't expected. It got me thinking. Estrogen increases during treatment with finasteride. SHBG increases with estrogen, and enhances the estrogenic effects on the body, because it has greater affinity for androgens, especially DHT - which is the estrogen antagonist. When you quit because of side effects, you have a problem with excessive estrogen. A lot of the DHT which then gets produced, binds to SHBG, which in turn frees up MORE estrogen. Increased free testosterone, will lead to further increased estrogen level as well, because of aromatization. Then SHBG raises again, and you're f***ed. What do you think, Mens Rea??epro said:i did it e2 too high, shbg too low
Well first and formost i'd like to see what epro's actual readings are. "Too low" is a little vague. I'd say "too low" is under 15 nmol/L, which i doubt is the case.
I do think, although the general rule of SHBG going up with estrogen rings true, the relationship isn't as strong in practice as in theory. I see incongruent levels of SHBG and E2 all the time.
The one thing, i guess, wrong with that feedback loop is that you say when there is a flow of DHT binding to more SHBG creating more free testosterone, in theory, then you can end up with "more estrogen". However, since given the fact that, as you noted, DHT is the estrogen antagonist, we don't really know where that leaves net estrogen levels as a result of this initial DHT surge (which should serve to reduce them). It seems to depend on the individual, really, doesn't it?
I honestly can't make any sense out of my own hormonal profile anymore so I'll not pretend the theory fits where it should. In Jan i read with high DHT, Testosterone, Estrogen AND SHBG. LOL.
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
Honestly, in all of "PFS syndrome" the crash after 2-3 weeks of normality that many sufferers experience, is the hardest thing to explain.
I have no idea how exactly it happens but i'm pretty sure for the 2-3 weeks of normality the body is extremely strained trying to "re-balance" and normalise itself. This all comes to a head after 2 or 3 weeks when all the feedback mechanisms are hitting each other head on, seemingly resetting "default" for many.
I never had the crash AFAIK, did you?
Enden said:It makes sense since people initially feel better, then everything turns around within two weeks, and they're suddenly worse off than they were on the drug.
Honestly, in all of "PFS syndrome" the crash after 2-3 weeks of normality that many sufferers experience, is the hardest thing to explain.
I have no idea how exactly it happens but i'm pretty sure for the 2-3 weeks of normality the body is extremely strained trying to "re-balance" and normalise itself. This all comes to a head after 2 or 3 weeks when all the feedback mechanisms are hitting each other head on, seemingly resetting "default" for many.
I never had the crash AFAIK, did you?
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
No, I just didn't improve like I should.Mens Rea said:I never had the crash AFAIK, did you?
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
Too low SHBG level means a SHBG level below 8 nmol/l - and it sounds like a doctor told him that it was too low. It's weird though. You usually only hear about low SHBG level in relation to TRT and steroid abusers.
Too low SHBG level means a SHBG level below 8 nmol/l - and it sounds like a doctor told him that it was too low. It's weird though. You usually only hear about low SHBG level in relation to TRT and steroid abusers.
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
Yes, both. Always been a hairy guy, probably top 10% in the hairnyness scale LOL
Enden said:I remember something else I was going to ask you about; body hair. Do you have a full beard? Full chest of hair? I'm just wondering.
Yes, both. Always been a hairy guy, probably top 10% in the hairnyness scale LOL
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
It's my DHT level that is :woot: though. 4.9. Double what is should be.
God know what pre-finasteride was, but wouldn't it be ironic if finasteride made things worse?!
Enden said:Yeah, no wonder. Your natural testosterone level is HIGH.
It's my DHT level that is :woot: though. 4.9. Double what is should be.
God know what pre-finasteride was, but wouldn't it be ironic if finasteride made things worse?!
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
This my results:
Estradiol- 45,1pg/ml (7,6-42,6)
LH- 5,15 mIU/ml (1,7-8,6)
Progesteron- 0,716 ng/ml (0,2-1,4)
Prolactin- 17,38 ng/ml (4,6-21,4)
Testosteron- 6,85 ng/ml (2,80-11,00)
SHBG- 16,0 nmol/l (20,0-70,0)
So as you can see 2 values aren't in range.
This my results:
Estradiol- 45,1pg/ml (7,6-42,6)
LH- 5,15 mIU/ml (1,7-8,6)
Progesteron- 0,716 ng/ml (0,2-1,4)
Prolactin- 17,38 ng/ml (4,6-21,4)
Testosteron- 6,85 ng/ml (2,80-11,00)
SHBG- 16,0 nmol/l (20,0-70,0)
So as you can see 2 values aren't in range.
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
SHBG is an indicator of the testosterone/estrogen ratio. Low usually means androgen dominance (which it should be), high means estrogen dominance. However, I think your SHBG level will raise again. You should take care of the estrogen level, and continue monitoring all those blood values.
SHBG is an indicator of the testosterone/estrogen ratio. Low usually means androgen dominance (which it should be), high means estrogen dominance. However, I think your SHBG level will raise again. You should take care of the estrogen level, and continue monitoring all those blood values.
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
Exercising is good. An aromatase inhibitor is essential. Large doses of zinc works as an AI. Your prolactin level is high as well. Personally, I would deplete it with cabergoline. 0.25 mg twice a week for a couple of weeks should do it. This has no negative consequences.
Exercising is good. An aromatase inhibitor is essential. Large doses of zinc works as an AI. Your prolactin level is high as well. Personally, I would deplete it with cabergoline. 0.25 mg twice a week for a couple of weeks should do it. This has no negative consequences.
Re: How to deal with side effects from finasteride
I know what you meant, but like I said; it seems to be caused by unfavorable ratios between DHT, testosterone and estrogen - fluctuations. There is no easy way to fix this. I recommended an approach to this problem.
I know what you meant, but like I said; it seems to be caused by unfavorable ratios between DHT, testosterone and estrogen - fluctuations. There is no easy way to fix this. I recommended an approach to this problem.