I feel like people don't understand incels

[vondoom]

I'm sure there are some guys that exist that would do that at 24, but I sure don't know anyone like that. Do you? Still sounds like girls making poor choices and picking the worst.

Why aren't they picking guys that don't have a problem with responsibility? That actually want to start a family?

One explanation for guys running away; could be just how promiscuous girls are these days... If she doesn't know who the father is, she will lie and pick a guy anyway. Why should you have to forego having your own to raise someone else's offspring?

If she's had sex with more than a couple, that's a giant red flag. Same with refusing a paternity test.

It also seems that the best solution to all this, would be to stop denying men abortion rights.

all the people i know where i used to live got married and had kids at around 30, maybe a bit later... but all have been dating for years at that time, some even since they have been 15...
everyone i know now in the east did that way later...
but i dont know anyone who abandoned their children even after divorce (noone i know back home is divorced, but a few people i know where i am now are divorced, goes way faster here apparently)...

denying abortion rights doesnt work that way, i leave it at that...

running away only has two reasons: you dont want to take responsibility and you dont want to take financial responsibility...

 

[Moro]

all the people i know where i used to live got married and had kids at around 30, maybe a bit later... but all have been dating for years at that time, some even since they have been 15...
everyone i know now in the east did that way later...
but i dont know anyone who abandoned their children even after divorce (noone i know back home is divorced, but a few people i know where i am now are divorced, goes way faster here apparently)...

denying abortion rights doesnt work that way, i leave it at that...

running away only has two reasons: you dont want to take responsibility and you dont want to take financial responsibility...

Yeah, exactly. The idea of men running away from kids sounds like a stereotype. One that's hard to find irl.

Sure it is. You'd be surprised just how prevalent the outright sexist discrimination is.
I remember asking ages ago in YT comments "Why didn’t he just have an abortion?" and this torrent of foul sexists had a problem with even considering giving men human rights.

I don't think those are the only two. What about the reason I just mentioned? Being lied to and the girl trying to foist someone else's child onto you. That's a pretty valid one. There might be others too.

 

[vondoom]

Yeah, exactly. The idea of men running away from kids sounds like a stereotype. One that's hard to find irl.

Sure it is. You'd be surprised just how prevalent the outright sexist discrimination is.
I remember asking ages ago in YT comments "Why didn’t he just have an abortion?" and this torrent of foul sexists had a problem with even considering giving men human rights.

I don't think those are the only two. What about the reason I just mentioned? Being lied to and the girl trying to foist someone else's child onto you. That's a pretty valid one. There might be others too.

well that happens, but i never heard about that in real life... i also dont know any women who sleep around... used to maybe from 16 til 20, or something, but so did anybody else... you usually know who the father is, the ones who dont are a minority...

yeah thing with that discussion is that the dude has to pay, so he could/should have a say in it, on the other hand his body isnt affected and you usually choose health over money... i think that is the only reasoning behind it... as far as i know if you dont sign anything, you dont have to pay (at least that seems to be the way here)...

 

[Moro]

well that happens, but i never heard about that in real life... i also dont know any women who sleep around... used to maybe from 16 til 20, or something, but so did anybody else... you usually know who the father is, the ones who dont are a minority...

yeah thing with that discussion is that the dude has to pay, so he could/should have a say in it, on the other hand his body isnt affected and you usually choose health over money... i think that is the only reasoning behind it... as far as i know if you dont sign anything, you dont have to pay (at least that seems to be the way here)...

Still seems like an alternate reason for men running. Being told you're going to be a father would be like winning the lottery, I can't fathom guys running away. You were just successful at life, time to run, doesn't make any sense.

The health of the mother isn't a valid reason to deny human rights though.
For example, if a woman rapes a young boy and gets pregnant. Unless an abortion is life threatening, which I don't think it is, I don't see why the health of the mother should be prioritised over human rights.

Feminists/communists even have a phrase for forced pregnancy. They go "my body, my choice" except half the DNA is his... Imagine being a young boy and your rapist saying "my body, my choice" to you.

 

[vondoom]

Still seems like an alternate reason for men running. Being told you're going to be a father would be like winning the lottery, I can't fathom guys running away. You were just successful at life, time to run, doesn't make any sense.

The health of the mother isn't a valid reason to deny human rights though.
For example, if a woman rapes a young boy and gets pregnant. Unless an abortion is life threatening, which I don't think it is, I don't see why the health of the mother should be prioritised over human rights.

Feminists/communists even have a phrase for forced pregnancy. They go "my body, my choice" except half the DNA is his... Imagine being a young boy and your rapist saying "my body, my choice" to you.

you intervene with someones body, that affects health (you also cant do that like ten times, or however you feel like) and that is why its valued more than somebodies wallet...

what you are saying here are extreme cases and those are cases that are a crime and neither you or me get to judge that... you can have your opinion, but thats all... sounds like all the other frustrated me... we better talk about what is happening in general, if we need to talk about it... and that is either baby trapped, or dude refusing protection, nobody gets pregnant by accident...

in case i got my gf pregnant and that pregnancy is not terminated, i would be fucked until retirement, or even later...


the dudes who do run away are either too young and dont want rhe responsibility, dont have the money, or just wanted to bang the chick and refused to use protection... that is the majority of cases...

then you got some wonen who want to baby trap the dude (and he most likely wont have it)...
and you got people who break up and then refuse to acknowledge the kid because they start a new relationship...

 

[Moro]

you intervene with someones body, that affects health (you also cant do that like ten times, or however you feel like) and that is why its valued more than somebodies wallet...

what you are saying here are extreme cases and those are cases that are a crime and neither you or me get to judge that... you can have your opinion, but thats all... sounds like all the other frustrated me... we better talk about what is happening in general, if we need to talk about it... and that is either baby trapped, or dude refusing protection, nobody gets pregnant by accident...

in case i got my gf pregnant and that pregnancy is not terminated, i would be fucked until retirement, or even later...

the dudes who do run away are either too young and dont want rhe responsibility, dont have the money, or just wanted to bang the chick and refused to use protection... that is the majority of cases...

then you got some wonen who want to baby trap the dude (and he most likely wont have it)...
and you got people who break up and then refuse to acknowledge the kid because they start a new relationship...

Not really. Supposedly abortion was made safe thanks to advances in medical technology, then legalised way back in 1970. I'm pretty sure it would have been made even safer since 1970. That was 50 years ago after all.

It's not about the money. Let's say someone takes your DNA and makes a Von Doom clone against your wishes. It's a violation.

I don't think it's that extreme. It might not even be as rare as you think. I'm sure most guys that have been forced into a pregnancy could relate to it.

I just can't picture a majority of guys running because of more responsibilities.

Yeah, the crazy girl saying "don't worry, I'm on the pill" while not being on the birth control pill.

 

[vondoom]

Not really. Supposedly abortion was made safe thanks to advances in medical technology, then legalised way back in 1970. I'm pretty sure it would have been made even safer since 1970. That was 50 years ago after all.

It's not about the money. Let's say someone takes your DNA and makes a Von Doom clone against your wishes. It's a violation.

I don't think it's that extreme. It might not even be as rare as you think. I'm sure most guys that have been forced into a pregnancy could relate to it.

I just can't picture a majority of guys running because of more responsibilities.

Yeah, the crazy girl saying "don't worry, I'm on the pill" while not being on the birth control pill.

still you cant abort as often as you want to...

cloning me would be against my wishes... i dont see that happening, though...

how can you get forced into pregnancy, without getting lied to?

i can easily picture everyone running from the responsibility when he just wanted to have some fun, wasnt that far into the relationship, is still in university, or has a ton of student loans to pay back, or similar...
your mindset is different, that is why you cant see it... for you it would be nice to have a family, for others it isnt... hell, i cant even wrap my head around that i might have to marry^^

 

[Moro]

still you cant abort as often as you want to...

cloning me would be against my wishes... i dont see that happening, though...

how can you get forced into pregnancy, without getting lied to?

i can easily picture everyone running from the responsibility when he just wanted to have some fun, wasnt that far into the relationship, is still in university, or has a ton of student loans to pay back, or similar...
your mindset is different, that is why you cant see it... for you it would be nice to have a family, for others it isnt... hell, i cant even wrap my head around that i might have to marry^^

Why not? It was made safe and legalised back in 1970, wasn't it?

It could be a possibility in the future. You see how it's a violation, right?
Having a baby is basically smashing together two people's DNA. 50% hers, 50% his, roughly. Except one person has all the rights over it, the other has none. Completely unfair.

By the father's right to an abortion be denied.

No, I can't picture a majority wanting to be useless. Perhaps I am in a bubble and don't see that people can be like that. I don't know.

 

[vondoom]

Why not? It was made safe and legalised back in 1970, wasn't it?

It could be a possibility in the future. You see how it's a violation, right?
Having a baby is basically smashing together two people's DNA. 50% hers, 50% his, roughly. Except one person has all the rights over it, the other has none. Completely unfair.

By the father's right to an abortion be denied.

No, I can't picture a majority wanting to be useless. Perhaps I am in a bubble and don't see that people can be like that. I don't know.

yeah forget it, i was wrong... unless something goes wrong you technically can abort as often as you want to...

i dont think the people see themselves as useless, they just didnt plan for a baby and the time and costs that come with it, or wouldnt even have the time, so they choose the easy way out... i dont think that happens too often inside normal relationships, though... then most get their act together and try to make the most of it... new job, new apartment and so on, whatever needs to be done, as good as possible...

i also think that most of the bad examples are just the ones you hear about...
to get back on subject: you hear more about finasteride side effects and finasteride not going well, than about finasteride working well, because if all is fine, why bother talking about it?^^

 

[Moro]

yeah forget it, i was wrong... unless something goes wrong you technically can abort as often as you want to...

i dont think the people see themselves as useless, they just didnt plan for a baby and the time and costs that come with it, or wouldnt even have the time, so they choose the easy way out... i dont think that happens too often inside normal relationships, though... then most get their act together and try to make the most of it... new job, new apartment and so on, whatever needs to be done, as good as possible...

i also think that most of the bad examples are just the ones you hear about...
to get back on subject: you hear more about finasteride side effects and finasteride not going well, than about finasteride working well, because if all is fine, why bother talking about it?^^

No, not thought of as, that they want to be useless. For example, people don't quit their job to go flip burgers or work at McDonald's -- It's unheard of.

Or when they advance to a new belt in martial arts. "Congratulations, here's your new belt." Someone going "Oh, no thanks, I want to stay as a white belt." What? That's not done, it's so strange.

I can't see that as being common. Same with being successful with conception and life.

Just some other possible explanations for men fleeing from having children.

 

[vondoom]

No, not thought of as, that they want to be useless. For example, people don't quit their job to go flip burgers or work at McDonald's -- It's unheard of.

Or when they advance to a new belt in martial arts. "Congratulations, here's your new belt." Someone going "Oh, no thanks, I want to stay as a white belt." What? That's not done, it's so strange.

I can't see that as being common. Same with being successful with conception and life.

Just some other possible explanations for men fleeing from having children.

there are a lot of people who dont do sh*t once they are in a relationship, especially once they are married... then they live on the couch and play video games... and that is mostly men... you can imagine that they are not going to put much effort into anything... not understandable for me either, but that is how it is...

 

[Moro]

there are a lot of people who dont do sh*t once they are in a relationship, especially once they are married... then they live on the couch and play video games... and that is mostly men... you can imagine that they are not going to put much effort into anything... not understandable for me either, but that is how it is...

If my girl had something she liked doing, I wouldn't want to stop her from doing it. Men do put a lot of effort and time in games, I don't think it's a good idea to sacrifice that and become resentful.

Surely you can maintain a relationship and still play video games.

Not maintaining sounds more like a problem of girls not communicating. They can go for years or even decades without saying that there's a problem. Divorce out of the blue and say stuff like "I needed to go find myself" leaving you going "gee, I wonder what the problem was."

 

[vondoom]

If my girl had something she liked doing, I wouldn't want to stop her from doing it. Men do put a lot of effort and time in games, I don't think it's a good idea to sacrifice that and become resentful.

Surely you can maintain a relationship and still play video games.

Not maintaining sounds more like a problem of girls not communicating. They can go for years or even decades without saying that there's a problem. Divorce out of the blue and say stuff like "I needed to go find myself" leaving you going "gee, I wonder what the problem was."

of course you can, you just need to find a balance... i mean im not much better, i also got times when i spend a huge amount of time on my hobbies... but i got some sort of balance, i dont know, everything works out eventually...
a lot dont do that and just dont do anything (goes for women, too, but i think its way worse in men)...

ah yeah you got to figure that out^^ i think in the west that isnt that bad... at least not in my experience... now in the east, it isnt unheard of that you get the divorce papers all of a sudden... its also not unheard of that you get the divorce papers already signed in your name and you cant do much against it (dont know how often that really happens, but you hear/read about it)...

 

[Moro]

ah yeah you got to figure that out^^ i think in the west that isnt that bad... at least not in my experience... now in the east, it isnt unheard of that you get the divorce papers all of a sudden... its also not unheard of that you get the divorce papers already signed in your name and you cant do much against it (dont know how often that really happens, but you hear/read about it)...

How is that even possible? If she doesn't tell you what the problem is, you're not going to somehow just know. If she really cared, she wouldn't keep her partner in the dark in the first place.

Isn't using someone else's signature some sort of fraud?

 

[vondoom]

How is that even possible? If she doesn't tell you what the problem is, you're not going to somehow just know. If she really cared, she wouldn't keep her partner in the dark in the first place.

Isn't using someone else's signature some sort of fraud?

well technically it is fraud... they dont use signatures here though, you got a personal seal... so you take the husbands seal, stamp it and done... happens usually with foreign husbands close before the visa is over, to really get rid of him^^ i always find that very funny...

well conversation is key, you just have to pay kore attention and it usually works without saying too much... its not impossible and its not like there are no signs at all...

 

[Moro]

well technically it is fraud... they dont use signatures here though, you got a personal seal... so you take the husbands seal, stamp it and done... happens usually with foreign husbands close before the visa is over, to really get rid of him^^ i always find that very funny...

well conversation is key, you just have to pay kore attention and it usually works without saying too much... its not impossible and its not like there are no signs at all...

"Personal seal"
"Those damn foreigners"
Japan?

A sign? Like an actual sign with writing on it? Similar to protest signs.
If it's not that, it's not going to work. It's the same as being kept in the dark.

 

[vondoom]

"Personal seal"
"Those damn foreigners"
Japan?

A sign? Like an actual sign with writing on it? Similar to protest signs.
If it's not that, it's not going to work. It's the same as being kept in the dark.

yeah japan... seal like a stamp...

i think it is possible, i usually know in what mood my gf is and can figure out why, or at least if its my fault, or if it isnt...

 

[Moro]

yeah japan... seal like a stamp...

i think it is possible, i usually know in what mood my gf is and can figure out why, or at least if its my fault, or if it isnt...

I had a feeling it was Japan. I really want to visit the Gundam statue hey.

Oh, so you have to keep quizzing her "Is it the dishes?" lol Well, at least you know when there's a problem. Better than nothing I suppose.

 

[vondoom]

I had a feeling it was Japan. I really want to visit the Gundam statue hey.

Oh, so you have to keep quizzing her "Is it the dishes?" lol Well, at least you know when there's a problem. Better than nothing I suppose.

i dint have to quiz, because we dont have any issues except money (true japanese style)... but even that isnt too serious, because there isnt much that can be done about it atm...

 

[UnLuckyLuciano]

balding should prompt you to hurry up and settle down,

Why? Just because Im unlucky and life wants to see me suffer ?