I went to the gym today - no more pubs

[Oknow]

Just for the sake of argument... if you want to be athletic why not practice athletics? Long jump, sprint, high jump, javelin... some of these you can do with not much equipment. For me it only adds to my stress and I look forward to my days off when I can sit back and enjoy TV or books. I disagree that it makes one look better; one always falls or rises to the attractiveness level of their hair in my opinion. If @Norwoodcel doesn't like it, there are plenty of alternatives that he might prefer. I just don't like the idea of gymgoers thinking that they are better than non gymgoers.

because I want to be muscular too

Many athletes do a mixture of weights and cardio - Ronaldo for example

 

[Butterbean Head]

In my early 20's i did the whole bodybuilding thing.. I had decent results.. Only made it up to Brad Pitt in fightclub level

It was a ballache looking back.. all that food i had to stuff myself full of, creatine, whey powder supplements etc.. it becomes an obsession.
I'm an ectomorph framecel. People like me are running the race uphill as opposed to natural chad framed people.

My goals now are just to get lean and defined, get rid of my belly and lose the double chin. There are other benefits as well like getting rid of depression and making the skin look nice

I'm 6ft 3 and 103kg of prime sublime Nordic marrow, yet due to the fact I'm a big hairy scary bald monster...........

 

[doubleindemnity]

because I want to be muscular too

Many athletes do a mixture of weights and cardio - Ronaldo for example

But do you perform this athletic training?

Anyway yes that's great. You want to be muscular so gym training is good for you. If @Norwoodcel doesn't want to, he doesn't have to. It's another cope. Imagine instead sitting at home and reflecting on how your life has turned out so terribly. That is tougher than any workout one can do.

 

[Oknow]

But do you perform this athletic training?

Anyway yes that's great. You want to be muscular so gym training is good for you. If @Norwoodcel doesn't want to, he doesn't have to. It's another cope. Imagine instead sitting at home and reflecting on how your life has turned out so terribly. That is tougher than any workout one can do.

Just basic cardio, should play a sport to be honest

 

[Norwoodcel]

Contrary to popular belief, big muscles are not optimal in attracting women.

Women want a lean athletic build with definition.. - Hence their love of those hawwwt bad boi Abs baby!

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Contrary to popular belief, big muscles are not optimal in attracting women.

Women want a lean athletic build with definition.. - Hence their love of those hawwwt bad boi Abs baby!

Cope. That's not contrary to popular belief, but popular belief of copemaxxing treadmill users and dishonest roasties.
The professional bodybuilder body type is a niche attraction, even though let's face it, Arny never had any problem whatsoever attracting hot women. And neither did Markus Rühl and that guy is ugly as f*****g sin and facing a deadend career wise.
Women do like the ectomorph boy type a lot too IF (big if) you have a great face, frame, good height and great hair. It's definetely an extremely popular archetype but if you have these qualities, you can do almost anything apart from getting fat to be popular. I am not convinced that women would be any less attracted to Brad Pitt if he was a bit more muscular.
Just look at Henry Caville, he is one of the most panty dropping actors of our time and a MASSIVE roidhead.

Don't delude yourself with flawed correlations here. Doing grandma aerobics won't turn you into Brad Pitt or Christian Bale. These guys can afford to be less muscular and even scrawny sometimes, because they are of a certain blessed phenotype. You are not them. You will just look as embarrassingly mediocre as any other middle aged, balding fart who thinks he might 'pick up fitness' but still refuse to commit because he is somehow more highbrow than the lifters. Free weight lifting is great, even for weightloss. In any aspect the superior exercise to machines generally speaking.

You said that many people who lift are not top models, which is true, but the lowest of the low in the gym hierarchy are desperate men who refuse to use weights because of their insecurity and the stigma. Both physically and mentally. They visit the place for months and do their retarded whole body workout for months and often you couldn't even tell they did any type of sports, at best they become even more frail and weak looking than before. Cringe inducing.

 

[doubleindemnity]

Cope. That's not contrary to popular belief, but popular belief of copemaxxing treadmill users and dishonest roasties.
The professional bodybuilder body type is a niche attraction, even though let's face it, Arny never had any problem whatsoever attracting hot women. And neither did Markus Rühl and that guy is ugly as f*****g sin and facing a deadend career wise.
Women do like the ectomorph boy type a lot too IF (big if) you have a great face, frame, good height and great hair. It's definetely an extremely popular archetype but if you have these qualities, you can do almost anything apart from getting fat to be popular. I am not convinced that women would be any less attracted to Brad Pitt if he was a bit more muscular.
Just look at Henry Caville, he is one of the most panty dropping actors of our time and a MASSIVE roidhead.

Don't delude yourself with flawed correlations here. Doing grandma aerobics won't turn you into Brad Pitt or Christian Bale. These guys can afford to be less muscular and even scrawny sometimes, because they are of a certain blessed phenotype. You are not them. You will just look as embarrassingly mediocre as any other middle aged, balding fart who thinks he might 'pick up fitness' but still refuse to commit because he is somehow more highbrow than the lifters. Free weight lifting is great, even for weightloss. In any aspect the superior exercise to machines generally speaking.

You said that many people who lift are not top models, which is true, but the lowest of the low in the gym hierarchy are desperate men who refuse to use weights because of their insecurity and the stigma. Both physically and mentally. They visit the place for months and do their retarded whole body workout for months and often you couldn't even tell they did any type of sports, at best they become even more frail and weak looking than before. Cringe inducing.

View attachment 166994

Muscles are a waste of time for attracting. Period. Try it for yourself and see. Bodybuilding should be done because you want to do it and enjoy it. Arnie attracted with his hair, ambition (not just a normal amount of ambition but Arnie level) and general success, not his Mr Olympia physique. Remember that a NW1 or NW2 can outdo a year of your training and diet with a single hour haircut. Even in the photo above, the hair and the beard make it.

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Muscles are a waste of time for attracting. Period. Try it for yourself and see. Bodybuilding should be done because you want to do it and enjoy it. Arnie attracted with his hair, ambition (not just a normal amount of ambition but Arnie level) and general success, not his Mr Olympia physique. Remember that a NW1 or NW2 can outdo a year of your training and diet with a single hour haircut. Even in the photo above, the hair and the beard make it.

I did, made me way more successful with women and gave my confidence an enjoyable boost. There are several other benefits of course. Additional strength comes in handy in combat (sport), works as a deterrent for people looking for trouble and even helped me immensely when fixing stuff on my grandma's house all the time.

Not sure if you are aware but bodybuilding is a professional thing, if you don't compete professionally you are not a bodybuilder but just someone who works out. And you are delusional to think that Arnie wouldn't slay in a disco or a pub without being Governer of California. I'd bet all my savings that he did, even before becoming Mr. Universe.

You skipped over Caville it seems.

 

[doubleindemnity]

I did, made me way more successful with women and gave my confidence an enjoyable boost. There are several other benefits of course. Additional strength comes in handy in combat (sport), works as a deterrent for people looking for trouble and even helped me immensely when fixing stuff on my grandma's house all the time.

Not sure if you are aware but bodybuilding is a professional thing, if you don't compete professionally you are not a bodybuilder but just someone who works out. And you are delusional to think that Arnie wouldn't slay in a disco or a pub without being Governer of California. I'd bet all my savings that he did, even before becoming Mr. Universe.

You skipped over Caville it seems.

Then you are one of the few, it seems. For majority of guys, muscle will not improve their attractiveness or at least that's what I'm arguing. Strength for combat is very overrated. Former boxing champion Carl Froch was wiry and very thin if he were a gym rat. Maybe he wasn't very strong but he was one of the top at combat. Combat strength comes mostly from bodyweight and maneuvering it. Deontay Wilder's right hand is considered more devastating than Anthony Joshua's but AJ will most likely win in a strength contest. Strength is useful in sport but I'm restricting our discussion to attractiveness and specifically imagining a guy who has no interest in muscle or working out but it doing it for any attractiveness boost.

I am talking about amateur, noncompetitive bodybuilding. The people who may follow a bulking and cutting cycle, measure their diet and track changes in their physique but never step on stage. I was talking about Arnie's success as Mr Olympia as a movie star. He did it because he is Arnie; he has great hair and a totally magnetic personality. You can see how all of his past lovers say that they were attracted to the fact that he is the quintessential self made man. Henry Cavill... tall with great hair. That is already the ideal physique. Anything above that is irrelevant. I also think that a lot of these Hollywood people either use extra supplements or have enough time in their off season to train up to 10 times per week and eat up to 6 times per week and so are not a reasonable argument to use for regular folk like us.

 

[Butterbean Head]

Cope. That's not contrary to popular belief, but popular belief of copemaxxing treadmill users and dishonest roasties.
The professional bodybuilder body type is a niche attraction, even though let's face it, Arny never had any problem whatsoever attracting hot women. And neither did Markus Rühl and that guy is ugly as f*****g sin and facing a deadend career wise.
Women do like the ectomorph boy type a lot too IF (big if) you have a great face, frame, good height and great hair. It's definetely an extremely popular archetype but if you have these qualities, you can do almost anything apart from getting fat to be popular. I am not convinced that women would be any less attracted to Brad Pitt if he was a bit more muscular.
Just look at Henry Caville, he is one of the most panty dropping actors of our time and a MASSIVE roidhead.

Don't delude yourself with flawed correlations here. Doing grandma aerobics won't turn you into Brad Pitt or Christian Bale. These guys can afford to be less muscular and even scrawny sometimes, because they are of a certain blessed phenotype. You are not them. You will just look as embarrassingly mediocre as any other middle aged, balding fart who thinks he might 'pick up fitness' but still refuse to commit because he is somehow more highbrow than the lifters. Free weight lifting is great, even for weightloss. In any aspect the superior exercise to machines generally speaking.

You said that many people who lift are not top models, which is true, but the lowest of the low in the gym hierarchy are desperate men who refuse to use weights because of their insecurity and the stigma. Both physically and mentally. They visit the place for months and do their retarded whole body workout for months and often you couldn't even tell they did any type of sports, at best they become even more frail and weak looking than before. Cringe inducing.

View attachment 166994

What an ugly f***!

 

[disfiguredyoungman]

Then you are one of the few, it seems. For majority of guys, muscle will not improve their attractiveness or at least that's what I'm arguing.

Oh yeah, sure you seem to have figured it out and the million of guys training just aren't smart enough to get it. Year after year after year. That's a big fat cope from me.

Strength for combat is very overrated. Former boxing champion Carl Froch was wiry and very thin if he were a gym rat. Maybe he wasn't very strong but he was one of the top at combat. Combat strength comes mostly from bodyweight and maneuvering it. Deontay Wilder's right hand is considered more devastating than Anthony Joshua's but AJ will most likely win in a strength contest. Strength is useful in sport but I'm restricting our discussion to attractiveness and specifically imagining a guy who has no interest in muscle or working out but it doing it for any attractiveness boost.

Another really uninformed opinion for a million reasons. Carl Froch had low body fat and an extremely solid bizeps, 100% he was working out. But you know why boxers are often wiry? Because they cut weight, because there are weight classes and more muscles and weight mean you have an immense advantage over otherwise evenly matched opponents. So no one wants to compete in the higher weight class and thus starves himself to avoid that. And no you cannot arbitrarily differentiate weight from muscle mass. As the name is indicating, additional muscles are just additional functional weight.
But I could break your argument down even further than that. Boxing is a great combat sport and training in that makes you an expert in...well, boxing. Which is: punching someone with wrapped and cushioned hands and defending against his strikes. It can be a pleasing sport, but its rigid and limiting rule system removes it a lot from any real combat and even most other combat sports. In real fighting and combat sports with less limiting rules, clinching and wrestling become integral. Both aspects are technical as well, but they put an even higher emphasis on strength than mere boxing (in which muscle mass is already extremely important).

At a certain threshhold overcoming strength with better technique becomes exponentially hard, until it is virtually impossible no matter what IP Man movies and the like, like to pretend. When The Mountain sparred with Mc Gregor it looked as if a big brother playfought with his sibling and had to try hard not to hurt him by accident. And that's a guy who at that time never trained martial arts a day before in his life. Anyways a tangent as you yourself said...albeit a more interesting one than the main discussion.

You can see how all of his past lovers say that they were attracted to the fact that he is the quintessential self made man. Henry Cavill... tall with great hair. That is already the ideal physique. Anything above that is irrelevant. I also think that a lot of these Hollywood people either use extra supplements or have enough time in their off season to train up to 10 times per week and eat up to 6 times per week and so are not a reasonable argument to use for regular folk like us.

Women say a lot of things to appear less superficial but more and more are openly admitting that they are attracted to a rather muscular build nowadays. I think the bottom line is this: Working out didn't improve your chances much, because you have several other drawbacks as you have repeatedly stated. That doesn't mean, that going to the gym won't help a lot of other men in slightly different situations, it just means that it is not magic.

Meanwhile being a scrawney f***** on a treadmill absolutely doesn't improve anybodys outlook on women, despite maybe (maybe!) a tiny, tiny subset of men with a very special type of super attractive look, that was given to them by god. All of them who would never spend a single day in their lives on a hairloss incel forum.
So don't have your workout programme inspired by Ronaldo's or Brad Pitt's, because you will never ever be him or be like him.

 

[LouisSarkozy]

true gymmaxing is useless if you're under 6ft1 with poor muscle insertion/ frame . if you 're under that height and sub4 facially with fucked up muscle insertion /frame just christiano ronaldomax with bodyweight and cardio and keep a lean body for health otherwise you're gonna end up looking like a coping gymcell.

if you're over 6ft3 and ugly you can roid and run niche game with mentally ill female tho despite being ugly af.....

 

[doubleindemnity]

Oh yeah, sure you seem to have figured it out and the million of guys training just aren't smart enough to get it. Year after year after year. That's a big fat cope from me.
View attachment 167011


Another really uninformed opinion for a million reasons. Carl Froch had low body fat and an extremely solid bizeps, 100% he was working out. But you know why boxers are often wiry? Because they cut weight, because there are weight classes and more muscles and weight mean you have an immense advantage over otherwise evenly matched opponents. So no one wants to compete in the higher weight class and thus starves himself to avoid that. And no you cannot arbitrarily differentiate weight from muscle mass. As the name is indicating, additional muscles are just additional functional weight.
But I could break your argument down even further than that. Boxing is a great combat sport and training in that makes you an expert in...well, boxing. Which is: punching someone with wrapped and cushioned hands and defending against his strikes. It can be a pleasing sport, but its rigid and limiting rule system removes it a lot from any real combat and even most other combat sports. In real fighting and combat sports with less limiting rules, clinching and wrestling become integral. Both aspects are technical as well, but they put an even higher emphasis on strength than mere boxing (in which muscle mass is already extremely important).

At a certain threshhold overcoming strength with better technique becomes exponentially hard, until it is virtually impossible no matter what IP Man movies and the like, like to pretend. When The Mountain sparred with Mc Gregor it looked as if a big brother playfought with his sibling and had to try hard not to hurt him by accident. And that's a guy who at that time never trained martial arts a day before in his life. Anyways a tangent as you yourself said...albeit a more interesting one than the main discussion.



Women say a lot of things to appear less superficial but more and more are openly admitting that they are attracted to a rather muscular build nowadays. I think the bottom line is this: Working out didn't improve your chances much, because you have several other drawbacks as you have repeatedly stated. That doesn't mean, that going to the gym won't help a lot of other men in slightly different situations, it just means that it is not magic.

Meanwhile being a scrawney f***** on a treadmill absolutely doesn't improve anybodys outlook on women, despite maybe (maybe!) a tiny, tiny subset of men with a very special type of super attractive look, that was given to them by god. All of them who would never spend a single day in their lives on a hairloss incel forum.
So don't have your workout programme inspired by Ronaldo's or Brad Pitt's, because you will never ever be him or be like him.

I don't follow MMA so I didn't know that strength really counts for so much. But Carl Froch weighed less than 80kg and is over 6ft. Nobody is going to be gym strong with that body shape. A 6ft guy will have to weigh more to be strong in the gym. My argument was that any weight at all is what influences striking strength. It can be muscle or body fat. Deontay Wilder punches harder than Anthony Joshua because he has more body weight, although he may well have less muscle mass, I argue. But you have almost convinced me, because I did indeed see olympic wrestlers having a muscular build. And as for the guy in the photos, he will look the same with clothes, which is my point.

Maybe you are right about me but this is a hair loss forum and guys here have aggressive hair loss so they have the same drawbacks that I had and I expect that they will find the same. Now you could go and promote muscle building to guys with hair and say that it will be effective. But at that point who cares... guys with hair generally won't have that much trouble being attractive anyway.

 

[Norwoodcel]

So much coping and delusion in this thread.

Brad Pitt in fight club is optimal for women.
Or an Olympic swimmer build.

These men look athletic fit and like they "get sh*t done" in the eyes of the primitive female brain.

Bodybuilders look pathetic and try hard and are sub optimal. But i agree that they still win over dad bod normies.

 

[Feelsbadman]

So much coping and delusion in this thread.

Brad Pitt in fight club is optimal for women.
Or an Olympic swimmer build.

These men look athletic fit and like they "get sh*t done" in the eyes of the primitive female brain.

Bodybuilders look pathetic and try hard and are sub optimal. But i agree that they still win over dad bod normies.

agree
my ex ran off with some cloud looking guy on tonnes of steroids

i'd rather look like me even though i'm ugly then look like that

i have the lean athletic/ abs look
looks better than roids
(except for like the top 5% of roid guys who are actually good looking like jeff seid not the average gym bro on tonnes of roids)

 

[justinbieberscombover]

So much coping and delusion in this thread.

Brad Pitt in fight club is optimal for women.
Or an Olympic swimmer build.

These men look athletic fit and like they "get sh*t done" in the eyes of the primitive female brain.

Bodybuilders look pathetic and try hard and are sub optimal. But i agree that they still win over dad bod normies.

The gay tryhard bodybuilder look isn't attractive but being naturally broad and strong without obsessing and bulking up is hot to women. They aren't trying to date a twig. Especially if you aren't a tall guy you're gonna need more mass..

I was slim with well defined abs my whole life, and only lately I started taking lifting more seriously and bulked up and women find me hotter now.

Stop finding excuses and work out.

 

[justinbieberscombover]

agree
my ex ran off with some cloud looking guy on tonnes of steroids

i'd rather look like me even though i'm ugly then look like that

i have the lean athletic/ abs look
looks better than roids
(except for like the top 5% of roid guys who are actually good looking like jeff seid not the average gym bro on tonnes of roids)

Jeff Seid isn't good looking. Looks like a circus freak

Only closeted incels worship him

 

[doubleindemnity]

So much coping and delusion in this thread.

Brad Pitt in fight club is optimal for women.
Or an Olympic swimmer build.

These men look athletic fit and like they "get sh*t done" in the eyes of the primitive female brain.

Bodybuilders look pathetic and try hard and are sub optimal. But i agree that they still win over dad bod normies.

Brad and olympic swimmers look just like average people when wearing clothes.

 

[justinbieberscombover]

Brad and olympic swimmers look just like average people when wearing clothes.

Cope

Brad Pitt

Regular skinny guy who doesn't work out

 

[Oknow]

Cope

Brad Pitt

View attachment 167018

Regular skinny guy who doesn't work out

View attachment 167020

View attachment 167019

I’m by no means massive but since working out , I do think women find me more attractive. Many love strong arms, and shoulders.

I remember dating a woman recently who outright said she wouldn’t have gone for me if I was not in shape at all

the guy wearing the green t shirt, sunken chest, poor posture (rounded shoulders) and skinny arms was how I used to look like