Insulin resistance, PCOS, and male pattern baldness

[Reibun]

This has got to be one of the most informative forum topics I have came across. I have been wondering much of this, but haven't found many people supporting these ideas. Good job and thanks everyone for providing all this information. I am going to follow all of this advice from this point on and see how everything works out.

Thanks again

 

[abcdefg]

Okay someone stop all their treatments take good pictures and follow this diet religiously for 1 year. Then take after pictures and show us how much hair was lost. Talk is cheap we need to see proof from as many people as possible.

 

[fodandahalf]

This may be completely unrelated to your theory. Nevertheless, I have a diabetic friend (19yo) who seems to be losing his hair. It seems thinner up front and I can definitely see a bald patch around his crown area. Before the diabetes his diet was terrible, and he ate ridiculous amounts of sugar, but surprisingly ended up with type 1(around the age of 15,) which is supposedly genetic. His diet has oddly enough not changed since, and his reluctance to take insulin injwections has landed him in hospital on several occasions. I have only recently noticed this evident hair loss, and to be fair it could be down to a deficiency considering what he eats. I don't know exactly where I was going with this, but there you go.

 

[Artas]

I am completely new to this theory so excuse many of my questions. My main question is is it good to lower your SHBG levels or raise them?

Because many foods and supplements (many spoken about hair loss treatments) on here (http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Free_Testosterone_SHBG.aspx) lower SHBG levels yet others raise them? :dunno:

Could someone help me with this confusion?

 

[Bryan]

I am completely new to this theory so excuse many of my questions. My main question is is it good to lower your SHBG levels or raise them?

I don't think SHBG has any influence on balding. At least, I'm not aware of any scientific evidence that it does.

 

[Broons85]

Artas, to answer your question directly, you would want to raise your SHBG in order to have better hair. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the thinking on SHBG in hairloss (I don't really have an opinion myself): In men who are balding, their hair follicle is sensitive to a molecule called dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Excessive DHT speeds up the hair follicle in some men (note: some men have high DHT and are not balding). DHT is a derivative of testosterone. When there's excess testosterone around, it gets converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (there may be others). That is the enzyme that is targeted by Propecia/Rogaine. SHBG fits in by binding up the excess free testosterone and thereby sequestering it away from 5-alpha reductase. If there's little SHBG, then the free testosterone is free to be to be converted to DHT by 5-alpha reductase, and hence your hair follicle is in trouble. That's how I understand it. But those of you who have read this thread know that I believe that all of this is secondary to the real culprit: excess insulin.

I think the reason why there is so much extra testosterone and so little SHBG in the first place is that there's so much insulin around. When you have so much insulin, your body thinks that it should be growing etc. So it makes testosterone, and stops making SHBG, because SHBG keeps testosterone from getting out of control. DHT is actually more powerful than testosterone and should make your hair grow faster, except that your hair follicles become resistant to it, just like insulin, and the excess amounts become toxic, and likely recruit inflammation,

So keep your carbs/insulin down, keep your immune system calm (gluten etc.), and your SHBG will be higher, and your hair follicles will be more responsive to the insulin and DHT that is there. Think of it like an ipod: if you blast the music all the time, you won't be able to hear it after a while. Turn the music DOWN, and your ears heal, then you can hear it again, ironically enough. It's the same concept for hormones.

abcdefg, I haven't posted any pictures, but I do have some. I'll post them at some point. My stomach would be more impressive than my hair. I don't do it for abs, but it's a nice bonus. My hair, also, is thicker, not terribly noticeably, but still noticeable. The fact that it got thicker, as opposed to just not getting thinner, is nice. I know you want real proof in pictures, so I'll post them soon.

stableforehead, the link between type 1 diabetes and gluten is becoming more prominent, even in science (we talked about it in one of my PhD classes). Though it's a single case, all this stuff is connected.

 

[balder]

Many athletes with healthy diets and exercise are balding and many winos with crappy diets are NW1

 

[Bryan]

Artas, to answer your question directly, you would want to raise your SHBG in order to have better hair.

I think that's an unfortunate claim that simply plays into the obsession that some people have with SHBG. I think the accuracy of that claim depends to a considerable extent on exactly how one would go about raising his own SHBG! For example, what do you suppose would happen if you were somehow able to inject a significant amount of it (SHBG) directly into your bloodstream every day? I'll tell you what would happen: your body would start producing more testosterone, to help make up for the amount that was being bound by the extra SHBG! You can't just go manipulating the levels of important hormones like androgens (directly or indirectly) without expecting the body to react through various feedback loops.

 

[Broons85]

Artas, to answer your question directly, you would want to raise your SHBG in order to have better hair.

I think that's an unfortunate claim that simply plays into the obsession that some people have with SHBG. I think the accuracy of that claim depends to a considerable extent on exactly how one would go about raising his own SHBG! For example, what do you suppose would happen if you were somehow able to inject a significant amount of it (SHBG) directly into your bloodstream every day? I'll tell you what would happen: your body would start producing more testosterone, to help make up for the amount that was being bound by the extra SHBG! You can't just go manipulating the levels of important hormones like androgens (directly or indirectly) without expecting the body to react through various feedback loops.

Bryan, not sure if you read the rest of my post, but that's why I said later in the post that I don't have an opinion on it. I wanted to answer his question directly, but I meant it in the sense that according to "experts," you would want to raise SHBG in the context of hair loss. The rest of my post was merely to explain the reasoning behind that claim, and I gave my opinion on why I don't think that it's totally relevant, given that low SHBG is likely an artifact of all of the other hormones being thrown off. I think you're absolutely right: you can't just mess with one hormone. You have to get at the root of it, which in hair loss is excess insulin.

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Artas, to answer your question directly, you would want to raise your SHBG in order to have better hair. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the thinking on SHBG in hairloss (I don't really have an opinion myself): In men who are balding, their hair follicle is sensitive to a molecule called dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Excessive DHT speeds up the hair follicle in some men (note: some men have high DHT and are not balding). DHT is a derivative of testosterone. When there's excess testosterone around, it gets converted to DHT by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (there may be others). That is the enzyme that is targeted by Propecia/Rogaine. SHBG fits in by binding up the excess free testosterone and thereby sequestering it away from 5-alpha reductase. If there's little SHBG, then the free testosterone is free to be to be converted to DHT by 5-alpha reductase, and hence your hair follicle is in trouble. That's how I understand it. But those of you who have read this thread know that I believe that all of this is secondary to the real culprit: excess insulin.

I think the reason why there is so much extra testosterone and so little SHBG in the first place is that there's so much insulin around. When you have so much insulin, your body thinks that it should be growing etc. So it makes testosterone, and stops making SHBG, because SHBG keeps testosterone from getting out of control. DHT is actually more powerful than testosterone and should make your hair grow faster, except that your hair follicles become resistant to it, just like insulin, and the excess amounts become toxic, and likely recruit inflammation,

So keep your carbs/insulin down, keep your immune system calm (gluten etc.), and your SHBG will be higher, and your hair follicles will be more responsive to the insulin and DHT that is there. Think of it like an ipod: if you blast the music all the time, you won't be able to hear it after a while. Turn the music DOWN, and your ears heal, then you can hear it again, ironically enough. It's the same concept for hormones.

abcdefg, I haven't posted any pictures, but I do have some. I'll post them at some point. My stomach would be more impressive than my hair. I don't do it for abs, but it's a nice bonus. My hair, also, is thicker, not terribly noticeably, but still noticeable. The fact that it got thicker, as opposed to just not getting thinner, is nice. I know you want real proof in pictures, so I'll post them soon.

stableforehead, the link between type 1 diabetes and gluten is becoming more prominent, even in science (we talked about it in one of my PhD classes). Though it's a single case, all this stuff is connected.

Any sign of those pics? Thought not.

 

[Broons85]

Any sign of those pics? Thought not.

Nashville, the point of this thread isn't to post pics to prove this theory. It's to discuss the effects of diet (and anything else) on hair loss. Also, my pictures may overstate the effects. I think lighting, length of hair, whether or not it's recently been washed, etc. can really effect how it looks. My pictures make it look BETTER than it actually is. I wouldn't want this forum to turn into people discussing perception of pictures. I've been eating this way for only about 9 months (not 100% strict, but probably 90%), so I wanted to wait the full year before I really looked into seeing results. I'd like this thread to stick to the discussion of the underlying causes of hair loss, whether it be diet, lifestyle, pollution, etc, and not turn into people posting pictures and then having everyone argue over whether or not you can see any changes. That's why I'm hesitant to put any up: people may focus on the pictures, and I've only been eating this way for 9 months. I ate the other way for 25 years. If you're looking for people to prove that it works through pictures, this isn't the right thread for you. The point is to discuss the science behind hair loss, and what could be causing it. I don't have any proof, I just have a theory. Until a better one comes along, I'm sticking to this one.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, not sure if you read the rest of my post, but that's why I said later in the post that I don't have an opinion on it. I wanted to answer his question directly, but I meant it in the sense that according to "experts," you would want to raise SHBG in the context of hair loss. The rest of my post was merely to explain the reasoning behind that claim, and I gave my opinion on why I don't think that it's totally relevant, given that low SHBG is likely an artifact of all of the other hormones being thrown off. I think you're absolutely right: you can't just mess with one hormone. You have to get at the root of it, which in hair loss is excess insulin.

Okay, but from now on whenever you're asked about SHBG, why not just respond with something similar to what I said earlier, and not help reinforce these simple-minded ideas that some people have about SHBG?

 

[Nashville Hairline]

Any sign of those pics? Thought not.

Nashville, the point of this thread isn't to post pics to prove this theory. It's to discuss the effects of diet (and anything else) on hair loss. Also, my pictures may overstate the effects. I think lighting, length of hair, whether or not it's recently been washed, etc. can really effect how it looks. My pictures make it look BETTER than it actually is. I wouldn't want this forum to turn into people discussing perception of pictures. I've been eating this way for only about 9 months (not 100% strict, but probably 90%), so I wanted to wait the full year before I really looked into seeing results. I'd like this thread to stick to the discussion of the underlying causes of hair loss, whether it be diet, lifestyle, pollution, etc, and not turn into people posting pictures and then having everyone argue over whether or not you can see any changes. That's why I'm hesitant to put any up: people may focus on the pictures, and I've only been eating this way for 9 months. I ate the other way for 25 years. If you're looking for people to prove that it works through pictures, this isn't the right thread for you. The point is to discuss the science behind hair loss, and what could be causing it. I don't have any proof, I just have a theory. Until a better one comes along, I'm sticking to this one.

Just create another thread with your story and your pics of hair improvement and this one can carry on. C'mon this is exciting..we've never seen any success pics from people who aren't treating with the usual finasteride/minoxidil/dutasteride/spironolactone etc

 

[Broons85]

I will post pictures.

I also wanted to bring up something else to get people's opinions. In thinking along the lines of insulin resistance, I started thinking about oxidative damage (not just applicable to hair loss). If there is insulin resistance, then that means that there is not a lot of glucose (sugar) getting into the hair follicle. If there isn't a lot of sugar, then there is not a lot of oxidative phosphorylation happening. if this happens, then the follicle will be starved for energy (ATP). On top of that, oxygen will still be diffusing into the cells of the follicle. Since glucose normally serves as the final electron acceptor in oxidative phosphorylation, there will be excess oxygen, and hence free radicals, floating around in the follicle. That will lead to cellular damage/death, and hair loss? Any thoughts on the lack of glucose creating an environment ripe for oxidative damage?

 

[guy_28]

There may be something to this theory I think.

I am somewhat allergic to bread and dairy products.

I did not eat much of this before I went to college, but when I got there I suddenly began on a crappy diet(alot of pizza and so forth). It was then my hair loss began. This may be a coincidence, or it may not.

 

[cuebald]

Any sign of those pics? Thought not.

Nashville, the point of this thread isn't to post pics to prove this theory.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

nice dodge

 

[hairhoper]

This is a load of old bollocks.

If hairloss was down to insulin and glutonous diets we'd know it by now.

*Edited to tone down.

 

[abcdefg]

The simple observational differences between men and women proves something like hormones is the cause of hair loss nothing else. We have not seen a 100 percent androgen inhibitor yet but that alone could prevent male pattern baldness forever. We know castration does and it makes perfect sense when we know most women like 95 percent have every hair on there head at like age 60. Its clear the hormonal difference between men and women is the cause since women with insulin problems and all kinds of diet problems exist and most still keep their hair. We just need a better topical anti androgen to prevent male pattern baldness and then start finding a way to regrow large amounts of hair like hair multiplication for men that are missing most of their hair already.

 

[Broons85]

Its clear the hormonal difference between men and women is the cause since women with insulin problems and all kinds of diet problems exist and most still keep their hair.

I agree completely. However, you should look into PCOS. First I think you have to think of it in the context of what's causing the hormones to get out of balance, and to that extent, what we have control over. What's causing us, men, to create more androgen? I think it's decreased sensitivity to insulin from poor nutrition/sedentary lifestyle. Since we're less responsive to insulin, we're also less responsive to androgens (they're linked). So, your body makes more androgens to make up for the lack of sensitivity. This causes problems, especially if you're not responsive to those androgens. Women aren't affected as easily because they produce more estrogen rather than androgen. But the root cause is still the same. That's why women get breast cancer (estrogen) and men go bald and get prostate cancer (androgens). Men make more androgen in response to decreased sensitivity to insulin, while women make more estrogen. Androgen is more toxic to hair, hence why men have the baldness and women typically don't. The women who DO produce androgen for whatever reason, end up with hair loss. Just look at PCOS. PCOS correlates with male pattern baldness (in males of the families of women with PCOS), and it also correlates with insulin resistance. Women with PCOS often have high DHT, low SHBG, and insulin resistance. Many of them experience hair loss. It's pretty obvious if you look at it this way that it's all about controlling your insulin/blood sugar with diet.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

Its clear the hormonal difference between men and women is the cause since women with insulin problems and all kinds of diet problems exist and most still keep their hair

Not sure about that.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12775957

e prevalence of extensive loss of hair (at least grade II or III on Ludwig's scale) was quite high (31.2%). The insulin resistance associated parameters, such as waist and neck circumferences, abdominal obesity measured by waist-to-hip ratio, mean insulin concentration (11.3 mU/l versus 9.95 mU/l, p=0.02) or urinary albumin-to-creatinine ratio (1.80 versus 1.58, p=0.01), were significantly higher in women with extensive hair loss compared to those with normal hair or only minimal hair loss (grade I on Ludwig's scale).