New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[CursedMen]

Has anyone used Aminexil without minoxidil or any thoughts about it? Aminexil is a more recent discovery that has been used commonly in shampoos for hair loss prevention. It has been found to prevent the hardening of the hair shaft and collagen buildup around it. A lot of the products are for women. Doesn't mean it won't help out guys. Derma rolling is centered around getting rid of the collagen. Roller + Aminexil =????

 

[squeegee]

Has anyone used Aminexil without minoxidil or any thoughts about it? Aminexil is a more recent discovery that has been used commonly in shampoos for hair loss prevention. It has been found to prevent the hardening of the hair shaft and collagen buildup around it. A lot of the products are for women. Doesn't mean it won't help out guys. Derma rolling is centered around getting rid of the collagen. Roller + Aminexil =????

That would be a no brainer for sure.. Aminexil + derma rolling. That one looks good.

http://www.amazon.com/SPECTRAL®-DNC...UTF8&qid=1384715877&sr=8-23&keywords=aminexil

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Interesting study about NO.

Excessive nitric oxide impairs wound collagen accumulation.

Julie E Park, Morton J Abrams, Philip A Efron, Adrian Barbul


Department of Surgery, Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland; Department of Surgery, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland.
Journal of Surgical Research (Impact Factor: 2.02). 12/2012; DOI:10.1016/j.jss.2012.11.056 Source: PubMed

ABSTRACT BACKGROUND: Nitric oxide (NO) plays a major regulatory role in wound collagen synthesis. We hypothesized that this regulatory role is tightly controlled by the levels of NO in the wound environment and that supranormal wound NO generation impairs wound collagen accumulation. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We used the model of turpentine-induced granuloma in male Sprague-Dawley rats as a sterile inflammatory stimulus generating large amounts of NO. In this environment, NO generation increased by 260%, whereas collagen deposition was significantly reduced by 38.5% (729.7 ± 81.5 versus 449.4 ± 76.3 μg hydroxyproline/100 mg sponge, P<0.05). Inhibition of NO synthase activity using 300 mM L-N6-(1-iminoethyl)-lysine, a highly potent and selective inhibitor of inducible NO synthase, significantly reduced NO elevation by 43.3% and increased wound collagen deposition by 37.3% (P<0.05). These effects occurred without any anti-inflammatory effects of L-N6-(1-iminoethyl)-lysine as assessed by the white blood cell counts and levels of interleukins 1 and 6. CONCLUSIONS: The data show that high levels of NO within the wound environment significantly reduce wound collagen deposition. Inhibition of NO generation restores collagen levels to normal levels. The regulatory effects of NO on wound collagen appear to be highly correlated with the amount of NO generated.

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[h=1]Nitric oxide inhibits androgen receptor-mediated collagen production in human gingival fibroblasts.[/h]Lin SJ, Lu HK, Lee HW, Chen YC, Li CL, Wang LF.
[h=3]Source[/h]Shin-Kong Wu Ho-Su Memorial Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan Periodontal Department, College of Oral Medicine, Taipei Medical University, Taipei, Taiwan.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Lin S-J, Lu H-K, Lee H-W, Chen Y-C, Li C-L, Wang L-F. Nitric oxide inhibits androgen receptor-mediated collagen production in human gingival fibroblasts. J Periodont Res 2012; 47: 701-710. © 2012 John Wiley & Sons A/S Background and Objective:  In our previous study, we found that flutamide [an androgen receptor (AR) antagonist] inhibited the up-regulation of collagen induced by interleukin (IL)-1β and/or nifedipine in gingival fibroblasts. The present study attempted to verify the role of nitric oxide (NO) in the IL-1β/nifedipine-AR pathway in gingival overgrowth. Material and Methods:  Confluent gingival fibroblasts derived from healthy individuals (n = 4) and those with dihydropyridine-induced gingival overgrowth (DIGO) (n = 6) were stimulated for 48 h with IL-1β (10 ng/mL), nifedipine (0.34 μm) or IL-1β + nifedipine. Gene and protein expression were analyzed with real-time RT-PCR and western blot analyses, respectively. Meanwhile, Sircol dye-binding and the Griess reagent were, respectively, used to detect the concentrations of total soluble collagen and nitrite in the medium. Results:  IL-1β and nifedipine simultaneously up-regulated the expression of the AR and type-I collagen α1 [Colα1(I)] genes and the total collagen concentration in DIGO cells (p < 0.05). IL-1β strongly increased the expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) mRNA and the nitrite concentration in both healthy and DIGO cells (p < 0.05). However, co-administration of IL-1β and nifedipine largely abrogated the expression of iNOS mRNA and the nitrite concentration with the same treatment. Spearman's correlation coefficients revealed a positive correlation between the AR and total collagen (p < 0.001), but they both showed a negative correlation with iNOS expression and the NO concentration (p < 0.001). The iNOS inhibitor, 1400W, enhanced IL-1β-induced AR expression; furthermore, the NO donor, NONOate, diminished the expression of the AR to a similar extent in gingival fibroblasts derived from both healthy patients and DIGO patients (p < 0.05). Conclusion:  IL-1β-induced NO attenuated AR-mediated collagen production in human gingival fibroblasts. The iNOS/NO system down-regulated the axis of AR/Colα1(I) mRNA expression and the production of AR/total collagen proteins by DIGO cells.

 

[opti]

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Interesting study about NO.

Excessive nitric oxide impairs wound collagen accumulation.

Julie E Park, Morton J Abrams, Philip A Efron, Adrian Barbul


Department of Surgery, Sinai Hospital of Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland; Department of Surgery, Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, Maryland.
Journal of Surgical Research (Impact Factor: 2.02). 12/2012; DOI:10.1016/j.jss.2012.11.056 Source: PubMed

ABSTRACT BACKGROUND: Nitric oxide (NO) plays a major regulatory role in wound collagen synthesis. We hypothesized that this regulatory role is tightly controlled by the levels of NO in the wound environment and that supranormal wound NO generation impairs wound collagen accumulation. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We used the model of turpentine-induced granuloma in male Sprague-Dawley rats as a sterile inflammatory stimulus generating large amounts of NO. In this environment, NO generation increased by 260%, whereas collagen deposition was significantly reduced by 38.5% (729.7 ± 81.5 versus 449.4 ± 76.3 μg hydroxyproline/100 mg sponge, P<0.05). Inhibition of NO synthase activity using 300 mM L-N6-(1-iminoethyl)-lysine, a highly potent and selective inhibitor of inducible NO synthase, significantly reduced NO elevation by 43.3% and increased wound collagen deposition by 37.3% (P<0.05). These effects occurred without any anti-inflammatory effects of L-N6-(1-iminoethyl)-lysine as assessed by the white blood cell counts and levels of interleukins 1 and 6. CONCLUSIONS: The data show that high levels of NO within the wound environment significantly reduce wound collagen deposition. Inhibition of NO generation restores collagen levels to normal levels. The regulatory effects of NO on wound collagen appear to be highly correlated with the amount of NO generated.

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Nitric oxide inhibits androgen receptor-mediated collagen production in human gingival fibroblasts.

Lin SJ, Lu HK, Lee HW, Chen YC, Li CL, Wang LF.
Source

Shin-Kong Wu Ho-Su Memorial Hospital, Taipei, Taiwan Periodontal Department, College of Oral Medicine, Taipei Medical University, Taipei, Taiwan.

Abstract

Lin S-J, Lu H-K, Lee H-W, Chen Y-C, Li C-L, Wang L-F. Nitric oxide inhibits androgen receptor-mediated collagen production in human gingival fibroblasts. J Periodont Res 2012; 47: 701-710. © 2012 John Wiley & Sons A/S Background and Objective:  In our previous study, we found that flutamide [an androgen receptor (AR) antagonist] inhibited the up-regulation of collagen induced by interleukin (IL)-1β and/or nifedipine in gingival fibroblasts. The present study attempted to verify the role of nitric oxide (NO) in the IL-1β/nifedipine-AR pathway in gingival overgrowth. Material and Methods:  Confluent gingival fibroblasts derived from healthy individuals (n = 4) and those with dihydropyridine-induced gingival overgrowth (DIGO) (n = 6) were stimulated for 48 h with IL-1β (10 ng/mL), nifedipine (0.34 μm) or IL-1β + nifedipine. Gene and protein expression were analyzed with real-time RT-PCR and western blot analyses, respectively. Meanwhile, Sircol dye-binding and the Griess reagent were, respectively, used to detect the concentrations of total soluble collagen and nitrite in the medium. Results:  IL-1β and nifedipine simultaneously up-regulated the expression of the AR and type-I collagen α1 [Colα1(I)] genes and the total collagen concentration in DIGO cells (p < 0.05). IL-1β strongly increased the expression of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) mRNA and the nitrite concentration in both healthy and DIGO cells (p < 0.05). However, co-administration of IL-1β and nifedipine largely abrogated the expression of iNOS mRNA and the nitrite concentration with the same treatment. Spearman's correlation coefficients revealed a positive correlation between the AR and total collagen (p < 0.001), but they both showed a negative correlation with iNOS expression and the NO concentration (p < 0.001). The iNOS inhibitor, 1400W, enhanced IL-1β-induced AR expression; furthermore, the NO donor, NONOate, diminished the expression of the AR to a similar extent in gingival fibroblasts derived from both healthy patients and DIGO patients (p < 0.05). Conclusion:  IL-1β-induced NO attenuated AR-mediated collagen production in human gingival fibroblasts. The iNOS/NO system down-regulated the axis of AR/Colα1(I) mRNA expression and the production of AR/total collagen proteins by DIGO cells.

damn its all about collagen:O

im still curious if the new terminal hair are gonna be similiar to those balidng once and are dht sensible

 

[squeegee]

Fibrosis is the formation of excess fibrous connective tissue in an organ or tissue in a reparative or reactive process. This can be a reactive, benign, or pathological state. In response to injury this is called scarring and if fibrosis arises from a single cell line this is called a fibroma. Physiologically this acts to deposit connective tissue, which can obliterate the architecture and function of the underlying organ or tissue. Fibrosis can be used to describe the pathological state of excess deposition of fibrous tissue, as well as the process of connective tissue deposition in healing.

Fibrosis is similar to the process of scarring, in that both involve stimulated cells laying down connective tissue, including collagen and glycosaminoglycans. Immune cells called Macrophages, and damaged tissue between surfaces called interstitium release TGF beta. This can be because of numerous reasons, including inflammation of the nearby tissue, or a generalised inflammatory state, with increased circulating mediators. TGF beta stimulates the proliferation and activation of fibroblasts, which deposit connective tissue.[SUP][2][/SUP]

Fibrosis is a process that follows chronic inflammation. Fibrotic tissue is like a scar tissue, thick, and rigid, due to excess accumulation of protein below the skin.
Skin fibrosis occurs in a variety of human diseases, most notably systemic sclerosis (SSc). The end stage of scleroderma in human skin consists of excess collagen deposition in the dermis with loss of adnexal structures and associated adipose tissue.

 

[opti]

Do we have to forever inhibt that dumb fibrosis?sucks a bit though

 

[2young2retire]

opti no forever. in the dermaroll study the baldies that grw hair kept regrowing hair months after dropping minoxidil and dermarolling.

indeed though its all about the collagen.

:O

 

[squeegee]

Do we have to forever inhibt that dumb fibrosis?sucks a bit though

I really think that only maintenance is needed with the derma roller. Just like going to the gym. Get muscles, keep on going to maintain size and tone. Same goes for your hair. Hardening of the collagen,bad collagen deposition,lost of elastin is a sign of aging, this is why people have wrinkles. Just reverse Androgen Alopecia with proper rolling then maintenance 1 or 2 times a month. Pretty easy.

 

[saintsfan92344]

I really think that only maintenance is needed with the derma roller. Just like going to the gym. Get muscles, keep on going to maintain size and tone. Same goes for your hair. Hardening of the collagen, collagen deposition,lost of elastin is a sign of aging, this is why people have wrinkles. Just reverse Androgen Alopecia with proper rolling then maintenance 1 or 2 times a month. Pretty easy.

squeegee you make it sound like like a miracle cure, I sure hope your right, I am going to roll a little more aggressive this week I think, I have been reading what everyone else is doing and I think I am at the low end of the wounding, I don't really press hard and do 4 passes over each area then 4x diagonal in an x pattern

 

[squeegee]

squeegee you make it sound like like a miracle cure, I sure hope your right, I am going to roll a little more aggressive this week I think, I have been reading what everyone else is doing and I think I am at the low end of the wounding, I don't really press hard and do 4 passes over each area then 4x diagonal in an x pattern

I don't believe in miracles cure. I believe in science and hard work. That guy pretty much proved it that if we are patient and roll it every week, we will get results and would be able to keep the hair without using minoxidil for maintenance. Collagen Induction therapy or micro-needling is a really smart way to reverse Male Pattern Baldness.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/25910-Skin-Needling/page15

 

[Bombarie]

Squeegee, do you think dermarolling with 1.5mm Will reduce eye wrinkels too? Im Also Rolling THE eyes, but wrinkles arent getting less visuable

 

[squeegee]

Squeegee, do you think dermarolling with 1.5mm Will reduce eye wrinkels too? Im Also Rolling THE eyes, but wrinkles arent getting less visuable

yes. I rolled my whole face yesterday.. It takes a lot sessions and takes time to see the visual effects according to the derma rolling experts.. but yeah it will work.

[video=youtube;uLCJ5VHTfiY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLCJ5VHTfiY[/video]

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GLycolic acid Peels can be uselful to fight fibrosis..

[h=1]Glycolic acid treatment increases type I collagen mRNA and hyaluronic acid content of human skin.[/h]Bernstein EF, Lee J, Brown DB, Yu R, Van Scott E.
[h=3]Source[/h]DakDak Photoaging Technologies, Wynnewood, Pennsylvania, Department of Dermatology and Cutaneous Biology, Jefferson Medical College, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA.

[h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]BACKGROUND:[/h]Chronic solar irradiation results in both morphologic and functional changes in affected skin. alpha-hydroxy acids, such as glycolic acid, have been shown to improve photodamaged skin.
[h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]To investigate alterations in collagen gene induction and epidermal and dermal hyaluronic acid production as a result of administered glycolic acid.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]In this study we compared collagen gene expression from skin biopsy specimens, and epidermal and dermal hyaluronic acid immunohistochemical staining between glycolic acid-treated and vehicle-treated skin. Forearm skin was treated with 20% glycolic acid lotion or a lotion vehicle control twice a day for 3 months.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]Epidermal and dermal hyaluronic acid and collagen gene expression were all increased in glycolic acid-treated skin as compared to vehicle-treated controls.
[h=4]CONCLUSION:[/h]Our data suggest that epidermal and dermal remodeling of the extracellular matrix results from glycolic acid treatment. Longer treatment intervals may result in collagen deposition as suggested by the measured increase in mRNA.

 

[Jlyncher]

Congrats on the regrowth Dana, here's to seeing much more.

Funny you mention focusing on one or two terminals, that's exactly what I did in the early weeks. It really kept me motivated, I had some hairs spring out next to a scar so they were easy to spot every day. Seems like they turbo charge in the 3-4 days after rolling and you practically watch them grow. Now I have more of them, and the scar is gone so it's harder to keep an eye on them, but that's a problem I can live with, lol.

Thanks for the pics, Casperz I think they helped clarify things.

awesome. do you have pictures? the way i take my pictures is using my samsung S4, the quality is like none other. every strand gets captured if you use flash

Been out for a bit, here's a couple of the hairline. The scar's not completely gone, you can see it in this pic on the right, there were no hairs in this area when I started. You can find the new hairs by their length, all the shorter hairs are new, some still weak, some starting to thicken up. The bottom quarter all the way across is mostly new hairs that have popped up, and if you look in the top left you can see more going further back in the scalp. The hair on the bottom right in the second pic is the one I was watching obsessively when I started out, lol. It started out weak, and now it's looking pretty good so I have hope for all the other weakling hairs too!

 

[squeegee]

Been out for a bit, here's a couple of the hairline. The scar's not completely gone, you can see it in this pic on the right, there were no hairs in this area when I started. You can find the new hairs by their length, all the shorter hairs are new, some still weak, some starting to thicken up. The bottom quarter all the way across is mostly new hairs that have popped up, and if you look in the top left you can see more going farther back in the scalp. The hair on the bottom right in the second pic is the one I was watching obsessively when I started out, lol. It started out weak, and now it's looking pretty good so I have hope for all the other weakling hairs too!
View attachment 22294View attachment 22295

Regrowing your juvenile hairline Jlyncher!:salut:

 

[Jlyncher]

I'll be a happy SOB if I do!

 

[squeegee]

I'll be a happy s.o.b. if I do!

You should be an happy SOB right now, because it looks like it is happening

 

[CursedMen]

Squeegee you mentioned that rolling potentially rids the scalp of "bad" collagen and creates "good" collagen what type is bad and what type is good?

 

[squeegee]

Squeegee you mentioned that rolling potentially rids the scalp of "bad" collagen and creates "good" collagen what type is bad and what type is good?

Not really what type is bad or wrong, The problem is the hardening and excess accumulation of it (fibrotic collagen tissues) due to chronic inflammatory environment. PGD2 produced in excess is a classic example of local chronic inflammation sign which is active during the process of Androgen Alopecia. Also, hypoxia plays a role in fibrosis which is common in baldness as well.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19546236

 

[CursedMen]

So possibly, extra DHT in follicle -> PTGDS -> PGD2 -> inflammation ->Fibrosis -> inhibition of hair growth? Now let us talk about cytokines such as interleukin (IL)-1β which act as hormonal regulators and can up-regulate collagen. Do they have any role in this??

 

[squeegee]

So possibly, extra DHT in follicle -> PTGDS -> PGD2 -> inflammation ->Fibrosis -> inhibition of hair growth? Now let us talk about cytokines such as interleukin (IL)-1β which act as hormonal regulators and can up-regulate collagen. Do they have any role in this??

It is a cascade triggered by DHT. You can also Dkk-1, wnt-signaling to your list. It is really tough to point the finger at one problem. DHT itself have a role in collagen content in the skin and also have some effects to the process called keratinization. We should focus at the end results of it. Fibrosis. Micro-needling promotes keratinization of the skin, induced new collagen formation,induction of elastin and keratin and free up progenitor cells to the bulbs of the hair impaired by hardened collagen, fibrosis. Hair cycles goes back in business then normal hair growth follow. Remodelization of the local area where hair grow.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17657240
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23358095
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15610513

Micro Needling promotes normal Keratinization of the skin.

[video=youtube;OKosGSm7Ps4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKosGSm7Ps4[/video]

 

[CursedMen]

Good point I guess you would pretty much have to alter your DNA if you wanted to stop it from ever happening. So instead of breaking the chain to hair loss at DHT like finasteride. Rolling breaks the chain by reducing Fibrosis.