New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[opti]

Opti , I know you have started to use finasteride topical in your regimen , can I ask which finasteride topical are you using? do you make it by yourself? I also think since we do rolling it is important to use something more than normal minoxidil. Thats only my feeling about it

******* topical finasteride...its 0,25% finasteride(2,5mg finasteride per ML) so you can mix it 1:10 to your minoxidil or whatev.

@Parsia: But 2young didnt have a single shed.Thats why i wonder myself

 

[shivers20]

Disturbing the skin with a blow dryer, poor mans dermaroller haha. Seriously, blow dryer was used to treat Rosacea, interesting read nonetheless.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3390233/#!po=52.4390

 

[Parsia]

******* topical finasteride...its 0,25% finasteride(2,5mg finasteride per ML) so you can mix it 1:10 to your minoxidil or whatev.

@Parsia: But 2young didnt have a single shed.Thats why i wonder myself

Ok, thanks for your soon answer dude , I think promox which dr.klein made it would be a good option too. when I talked with him he told me it has not the same as you make it by yourself and more effective ( I don't know is it fact or just for marketing), what do you think?

@Opti :does 2young has a result with rolling ? For me I went to shedding process but just like 1-2 days and the interesting
thing is I see many small hair like 1mm- 2mm which does not look like hair ! I had this experience before ! So I really do not know whats going on exactly.

 

[2young2retire]

regarding shed i must say my f ucking male pattern baldness had accelerated much some months before starting treatment.maybe i already had shed whatever before starting it.

 

[Youcandoit]

regarding shed i must say my f ucking male pattern baldness had accelerated much some months before starting treatment.maybe i already had shed whatever before starting it.

I had no shedding only new growth, I haven't used minoxidil, and been taking msm and vitamin c up to 6000 mg each, I don't know why you guys are shedding, I also started eating vegetables, before I never really ate them daily or even weekly sometimes. Mainly just spring salads.

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regarding shed i must say my f ucking male pattern baldness had accelerated much some months before starting treatment.maybe i already had shed whatever before starting it.

I had no shedding only new growth, I haven't used minoxidil, and been taking msm and vitamin c up to 6000 mg each, I don't know why you guys are shedding, I also started eating vegetables, before I never really ate them daily or even weekly sometimes. Mainly just spring salads.


also the the violet ray also cures hypoxia.

Hair Loss and Hypoxia

It has been demonstrated that oxygen deficiency (hypoxia) exists in balding scalp, and that the microvasculature around the follicle in balding areas is deficient compared to the microvasculature around follicles with normal hair growth. Oxygen starvation leads to limited hair growth and compromised cellular repair mechanisms. It is believed by many that local tissue hypoxia may be the underlying pathophysiology by which age, genetics, and androgens interact to cause baldness.1
The effects of DHT in male pattern baldness are related to the microvasculature deficiencies. The increase in androgen (DHT) production in the scalp area inhibits mitosis, and induces insulin sensitivity in the follicular area. This insulin resistance further induces vasoactive substances that cause microvascular insufficiency and local tissue hypoxia with progressive miniaturization of hair follicles.2 Once the oxygen starvation is initiated by DHT, the energy production within the cells in the hypoxic area is also shut down. Under hypoxic conditions the mitochondria shut down as a survival mechanism.3
Hair regrowth requires that we overcome the hypoxia caused by excessive androgen production, and the purpose of the red and green light is to reoxygenate the tissue and reinvigorate the mitochondria so energy production can resume.

dht can only survive in hypoxia environments,

 

[hairregrowth21]

Very interesting post shivers20.




So basically adding exogenous PGE2 to the wound prevents scar formation and better tissue remodeling. Very interesting, PGE2 is already shot up to an insane level immediately after wounding this might be what's driving the initial tissue remodeling mechanism. Our initial assumptions about not introducing an anti-inflammatory right away might be false after all. So wait a couple of hours for initial coagulations to take place, apply a cox2 inhibitor add exogenous PGE2 daily for better remodeling. Interestingly, looking at their high and low pge2 levels, semen falls right in between with 23 ug/ml... just saying... :whistle:

bump...

What would be a good cox2 inhibitor and exogenous pge2?

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Thanks Armando, this post fell through the cracks and I have missed it, . I love browsing through alt.balspot, such a wealth of information I have learned from that site when I first started looking into hair loss. So many smart and dedicated helpers with links to many good studies in there, unless you run into posts from a guy by the name of Ernie Primeau...

@closet: Thanks for the tip, are you noticing any improvement with deep rolling?

On a unrelated note, here are my daily internal drugs, I might be missing a few because of space constraint

Bump...

 

[hairregrowth21]

about my topicals: you already know one of them , I use Calciportriol every other day (occasionally every 3 days). I use capsaicin mixed with keto 1% + caffeine shampo 3 times a day (stays on for 10-15mn), yeah lots of broscientist will tell you that keto should only be used couple of times a week, I say, show me a single study claiming that, it's something that's been repeated over and over without any facts behind it.
In fact the japanese study on 2% keto vs 2% minoxidil used a cream that stayed on all night.

I also use topical EGCG + resveratrol (tried topical curcumin but the yellow stain is unbearable). I also have different mixtures combining capsaicin with EGCG and resveratrol as a leave in topical, but it is not a high concentration of cap, otherwise, leaving it in burns like a mofo. I have now included minoxidil 4 times a day to my daily regiment since I started the wounding thing.

Again some people will say that will stop your heart, I say, broscience, in fact there is study that tried application of minoxidil 2 4 6 and 8 times a day and they didn't find any more systemic increase from 8 times to 2 times, the authors concluded that the initial application saturates the scalp enough to prevent further systemic absorption. So if you are not sensitive to a single dose of topical minoxidil's system effect, you will like not feel anything different applying 8 times a day.

Now does that work better? The study didn't investigate the efficacy, but only the systemic absorption. Lots of people concluded from that study that 2 times is as much efficient as 8 times, but that again is broscience because 4h is maximum absorption time of minoxidil, so it stands to reason that if you space them out by 4h, you are likely benefiting the hair follicles (I tend to go off topic sometimes). Sorry for the typos, typing on my cellphone while trying to catch up on Homeland

Reason I love curcumin so much, well, I am telling you guys, that little molecule is magical. At least I might live longer:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/may/01/scientists-ageing-process



What is the most potent inhibitor of NF Kb? Curcumin, even more so when combined with resveratrol. It seems NF KB pops its ugly head in almost all known inflammatory diseases.

bump...

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And this is the one I was looking for:

On an unrelated noted, since some people asked what I use: here is my anti 5AR regimen:

As soon as waking up in a fasted state:

10mg piperine in the morning on empty stomach followed by 320mg saw palmetto, +5000mcg biotin + 400mg Green tea extract (containing 200mg EGCG), 650mg curcumin, 2000mg evening primrose oil, 1000mg omega 3 (exact amount of omega 3, not fish oil containing fillers). 1000 mg MSM, 1000MG sililca, 5000iu cholecalciferol, 2 cups soy milk, walnuts and almonds, generic multi vitamin.

2 hours later:

a cup of concentrated tea infusion with white and black tea with a spoon of coconut oil into the tea (lauric acid) and a tea spoon of cayenne peper in the tea

Noon
60mg of soy isoflavones pill + iodine kelp cap + 10 mg piperine followed by 500mg of resveratrol + 650 mg of curcumin, followed by the tea infusion stated above + 2000mg of evening primrose oil + 1000 mg omega 3 (exact amount of omega 3 with no fillers) + 1000mg msm+ 1000mg silica,

2 hours later:
my custom tea infusion again (as listed above),

Before bed: 2000mg evening primrose oil + 1000mg pure omega 3 + 1000mg msm +1000mg silica + 16000% daily value worth of b12 + 450 mg of magnesium + the custom tea infusion state above + 1 scoop of fermented soy (japanese miso paste).

There is too many studies backing a lot of these and many people have tried these in the past, I personally attribute my success so far to consistency (never missed a dosage, except on unsual circumstances, like when traveling internationally on a long flight when the drugs are in the checked in luggage or some weird occasion like that). Use of piperine is key in my opinion as it dramatically increases pills bio-availability, curcumin for example is very poorly absorbed but piperine can increase the absorption rate by up to 2000%. Same with ECGC, Saw palmetto etc.

Lets look the study behind saw palmetto alone compared to finasteride:

Inhibition of the activity of 'basic' 5 alpha-reductase (type 1) detected in DU 145 cells and expressed in insect cells.



A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to determine the effectiveness of botanically derived inhibitors of 5-alpha-reductase in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia.



Inhibition of androgen metabolism and binding by a liposterolic extract of "Serenoa repens B" in human foreskin fibroblasts.



There is also the famous merck sponsorded research (not bothering posted that here) that completely discredited LSERs in comparison to finasteride but to me it's a matter of increased absorption and consistency, heck you will find users here who have used finasteride even dutasteride for years with nothing to show for, but nobody really knows how consistent anybody is.

The last and most important aspect of my regiment is... prayer lol. Since people asked, this is what I use, on a side note, I have zero side effects, now back on topic.

 

[opti]

srsly you need like 5 hrs a day to use that regimen,its like 1000 pills etc..and expensive as fk too


btw many ppl said that bald ppl lack a good blood flow...why eat 100pills if they wont even reach follicles?

 

[opti]

the only things that might help to accelerate Hair growth and not halt hair loss are in my opionion MSM,Biotin and silicium gel .Others may be just good for ur body,but things like vit c etc ,you ll the daily ratio by eating a fruit more the less.(excludes ppl who suffer hair loss from iron deficit or sth. else)

 

[bboy4]

This is just irrational, gratuitous pessimism. It's a scientific fact that balding area of the scalp are hypoxic. So it's completely logical that in for hair to grow terminal this needs to be overcome. Quite how we would do this and what effect it would have due to the interplay of other factors is a complex question, but to just write it off as a folksy old wives tales is just ignorant at best. I think you need to address your fatalistic attitude if you're going to be posting in the experimental section. Optimism is axiomatic here and while it needs tempering with rational, objective criticism, irrational, dismissive pessimism is just dead weight.

 

[bushbush]

It's a scientific fact that balding area of the scalp are hypoxic.

Can you link a reputable reference for that?

 

[bboy4]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8628793

 

[bushbush]

Thanks. Though the paper makes correlative observations without suggesting cause and effect.

 

[karankaran]

I think we are missing few important points about PrincessRambo's Regimen. I have LISTED Supporting studies with my arguments.

1) Rambo has done extensive research and if you guys see, he was taking Piperine before taking supplements. In certain cases ,it can increase bio-availability several folds as documented in scientific literature. Like green tea , cur cumin by 2000%.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15284381, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9619120]

2) He uses fermented soy or soy isoflavones aglycones which is more readily absorbed than non fermented soy. Again, a little known but established fact.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10867038]

3) Curcumin synergizes with resveratrol in certain cases , it could be that it does for hair loss too.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19838927]

I believe his combination of supplements is extremely well thought out and cannot be shrugged under the carpet. His supplements regimen is backed by certain amount of science, although not completely settled.

I can write about every thing he uses which i think has benefited him hugely. But then it will take a lot of space.

 

[hairregrowth21]

Dont worry about space were already at 500 pages

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In regards to thickening vellus hairs:

"Expansion Technology, unique nano-technology with micro-sized particles, delivers Creatine and Wheat Protein, potent body-building ingredients, into each hair shaft increasing the thickness of each strand for a volumized, full appearance."

http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Black-Vo...s=luxury-beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1389993078&sr=1-1

We were on the bodybuilding parallels a while back. Creatine and Wheat Protein to thicken the hair follicles? Has anyone tried Jack Black? It has really good reviews...


Also:
Micro proteins from wheat and bearberry:
Apply to washed and towel dried hair, patting the hair dry so that the serum can penetrate hair fibers, leave in for 10 to 15 minutes, rinse thoroughly:
http://www.amazon.com/diego-dalla-p...=luxury-beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1389993164&sr=1-51

 

[opti]

Creatin used to increase DHT levels aswell as testo levels,if your allergic to DHT you re f**** up by creatin

i dunno how this shampoo shell work lol

 

[BeliefISKEY]

I agree with the first part. I had a regimen like that at one point with at least 3/4 of the supplements in that picture. It was insane and it didn't do anything for my hair.

For the second part: it's not because many people say it that it must be true, you know this blood flow theory is the first idea that popped up on the internet as early as in the 90's.

That's the kind of things grandma's suggest to you. This theory has been around since the dawn of the internet and it has never helped anyone.

Lol it has never helped anyone? THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INCREASED WOUNDING/BLOOD FLOW & CREATING NEW VASCULARITY LOL. For the last couple of decades it's all been about DHT, NOTHING ELSE. This thread, as well as OTHER blood flow threads, are producing the best results anybody has ever seen.... EVER lol. There are also two studies that wipe out your old prehistoric quack theories & validate the blood flow theory.

Please follow the rules and keep this thread clean & on topic.

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I think we are missing few important points about PrincessRambo's Regimen. I have LISTED Supporting studies with my arguments.

1) Rambo has done extensive research and if you guys see, he was taking Piperine before taking supplements. In certain cases ,it can increase bio-availability several folds as documented in scientific literature. Like green tea , cur cumin by 2000%.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15284381, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9619120]

2) He uses fermented soy or soy isoflavones aglycones which is more readily absorbed than non fermented soy. Again, a little known but established fact.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10867038]

3) Curcumin synergizes with resveratrol in certain cases , it could be that it does for hair loss too.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19838927]

I believe his combination of supplements is extremely well thought out and cannot be shrugged under the carpet. His supplements regimen is backed by certain amount of science, although not completely settled.

I can write about every thing he uses which i think has benefited him hugely. But then it will take a lot of space.

Please keep this thread clean and please stay on topic. You want to post about this type of stuff? Make your own thread. =]

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Can you link a reputable reference for that?

Lol there are 3+ studies which clearly prove this to be true. But then again, if I post anything that isn't about pills or something you have to push, it is "unscientific" Why are you even here? You never even post about Dermarolling. The last link you posted was a .gov/quackwatch-like site & you don't contribute to anything on this thread.

http://mobile.journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/_layouts/oaks.journals.mobile/articleviewer.aspx?year=2010&issue=11000&article=00079

^^ Better results than any study I've seen. Everyone experienced a halt in hair loss & a good amount regrew hair.

Well then..... Now that I got that out of the way I can STAY ON TOOIC NOW. PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC BUSHBUSH.

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I had no shedding only new growth, I haven't used minoxidil, and been taking msm and vitamin c up to 6000 mg each, I don't know why you guys are shedding, I also started eating vegetables, before I never really ate them daily or even weekly sometimes. Mainly just spring salads.

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I had no shedding only new growth, I haven't used minoxidil, and been taking msm and vitamin c up to 6000 mg each, I don't know why you guys are shedding, I also started eating vegetables, before I never really ate them daily or even weekly sometimes. Mainly just spring salads.


also the the violet ray also cures hypoxia.

Hair Loss and Hypoxia

It has been demonstrated that oxygen deficiency (hypoxia) exists in balding scalp, and that the microvasculature around the follicle in balding areas is deficient compared to the microvasculature around follicles with normal hair growth. Oxygen starvation leads to limited hair growth and compromised cellular repair mechanisms. It is believed by many that local tissue hypoxia may be the underlying pathophysiology by which age, genetics, and androgens interact to cause baldness.1
The effects of DHT in male pattern baldness are related to the microvasculature deficiencies. The increase in androgen (DHT) production in the scalp area inhibits mitosis, and induces insulin sensitivity in the follicular area. This insulin resistance further induces vasoactive substances that cause microvascular insufficiency and local tissue hypoxia with progressive miniaturization of hair follicles.2 Once the oxygen starvation is initiated by DHT, the energy production within the cells in the hypoxic area is also shut down. Under hypoxic conditions the mitochondria shut down as a survival mechanism.3
Hair regrowth requires that we overcome the hypoxia caused by excessive androgen production, and the purpose of the red and green light is to reoxygenate the tissue and reinvigorate the mitochondria so energy production can resume.

dht can only survive in hypoxia environments,

Hey man, can you PM me? I can't seem to PM you.

 

[hairregrowth21]

Please keep this thread clean and please stay on topic. You want to post about this type of stuff? Make your own thread. =]

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These are supplements that were used to help recreate 1 inch of hairline in a 3 month time period along with dermarolling.

How is that not relevant?

 

[bushbush]

Unfortunately , some newbies here have created a culture where if some one criticizes the lack of scientific backing for their experimental treatments, they say "oh you are against ALL experimental treatments". That is not true. There are plenty of experimental treatments with good scientific backing and with proper knowledge, they can be used to achieve success. The criticism for others come only because they are just theories propagated by members with no evidence or proof.

There lies the difference!

This. It all depends on evidence --- peer reviewed papers from scientific journals.

 

[mungyana]

I think we are missing few important points about PrincessRambo's Regimen. I have LISTED Supporting studies with my arguments.

1) Rambo has done extensive research and if you guys see, he was taking Piperine before taking supplements. In certain cases ,it can increase bio-availability several folds as documented in scientific literature. Like green tea , cur cumin by 2000%.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15284381, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9619120]

2) He uses fermented soy or soy isoflavones aglycones which is more readily absorbed than non fermented soy. Again, a little known but established fact.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10867038]

3) Curcumin synergizes with resveratrol in certain cases , it could be that it does for hair loss too.
[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19838927]

I believe his combination of supplements is extremely well thought out and cannot be shrugged under the carpet. His supplements regimen is backed by certain amount of science, although not completely settled.

I can write about every thing he uses which i think has benefited him hugely. But then it will take a lot of space.

Why bother? Hairloss-Research.ORG has done the job for ya, and for us. Beside, I believe most of us don't take scalp wounding as a sole treatment. Squeegee himself as the biggest proponent of scalp wounding also take supplement. Even diet alone when you're in alternative treatment can help a lot. I remember I had a very good result with oleanolic acid, apigenin, soy isoflavone and sophora flavescen when I was away from cigarette and sugar.

The idea is we would like to add anything that supported by valid theories to maximize hair growth and regrowth.