New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[princessRambo]

I think a lot of people have won the endocrine fight against hair loss, meaning, most people have treatments good enough to keep DHT at bay. Problem is, the damage has already been done for most of us. Further DHT suppression will do little to bring back the dying follicles. For those lucky bastards who started treatment very early, not enough damage has been done to prevent reviving the damaged follicle . I see it like having a wolf attack your lamb, if you react quickly and the wolf gets only a single bite to the leg, the lamb will probably survive with a single band aid. But if you wait too long, you might need not only band aids, but organ transplants, high precision surgery and possibly alien technology to revive the lamb.

This is why it is important to attack hair loss from multiple angles when you come from a very high norwood. Suppressing dht and adding only minoxidil will only get the lamb (miniaturized un-pigmented hair) to say baaahhh in the dying bed. The scalp is already in a very high state of fibrosis, there might even be NF Kappa b signaling independent of DHT's downstream effects at that point and activating the release of cytokines inducing inflammation, I highly suspect this might be the primary source of lipocalin type PGD2 that Cotsarelis has found to be extremely high in balding scalp (personal opinion, broscience certified).

I mean we already know that once the balding process progresses, even castration isn't enough. This is one of the reason why I use different internals and topical to address not only dht, but NF kappa b, pgd2, pge2, pgf2a, sensory neuron activation and repair, wnt/b catenin activation, etc. Furthermore, this is where I think dermarolling might help slowly reverting the sub cutaneous scalp tissues to a descent state through wound healing. I do believe we need to still keep dht at bay, but I intuit that if someone had to dermaroll weekly and got complete reversal (hypothetically), if we still continue keeping dht in check then rolling can be scaled back to once a month or even longer to keep everything else in check.

Meanwhile, I love the TNT dudes pounding on Lebron's hairline every chance they get :woot:, I personally think he shouldn't "come home", he still has a little bit that can be salvaged unlike those 3 stooges at TNT that keep bringing it up.

[video=youtube;1h0tsofQdww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h0tsofQdww[/video]

 

[Sparky4444]

I think a lot of people have won the endocrine fight against hair loss, meaning, most people have treatments good enough to keep DHT at bay.

really??? I beg to differ...other than finasteride, what else is spankin' DHT??? And even finasteride doesn't spank it to the point where it needs to...

 

[super]

LOL, you are a funny guy oda

@super: Where did you see that nettle root inhibits DHT? I can't find a single study stating this, I am just curious, as I haven't come across one yet. From what I know, the mechanism behind its use for BPH is still unclear, but not related to reducing 5AR.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17509841

I will try to do a research and find the information about it blocking 5ar. I am pretty sure it does, and it also blocks aromatase. But i read its ability to block 5AR is very weak (but the study i read used only 300mg i think, i take 2000mg a day). So i don't know if it frees more DHT than it blocks. But Nettle Roots is indicated by lots and lots of different "natural treatments" and different cultures to prevent hair loss. Like milenar cultures. So, since many molecules from the nettle root do many different things (i read some block the SHBG, others block 5ar, others aromatase), maybe the empirical evidence those cultures have is more important.

I will try to use it and see if, in a month or two my results get worst or not. I will also cicle Nettle Roots, since it is diuretic, in order to not get dehydrated. I know it is used, and proven to work, to counter the symptoms of BPH. And that is one of the reasons i took it. Because of the finasteride and high estrogen levels, i was peeing constantly and it disturbed my sleep, so i started eating a lot of broccoli and now nettle roots. Broccoli has indole-3-carbinol, that regulates estrogen levels, making you have more "good estrogen" and getting rid off the bad, it also blocks DHT from binding to prostate and scalp cells (don't know to what extent, but the effects on the prostate are powerful). It has been 20 days after i started using both (now i am supplementing I3C too), and my peeing problems vanished.

So, idk if Nettle Roots being great for the prostate could have any relation with hair, since a lot of the treatments that are good for the prostate are also good for the hair. There aren't many studies about it till now, though.

Well, i will use and see. Untill now, i didn't notice my hair falling (is still getting better fast with the treatment), i fixed my peeing problems and my skin is way better (taking both supplements). Those are the facts till now.

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What i'd like to see is a progressing hairline (as opposed to receding). This is the ultimate challenge. When that happens the last skeptics will blush like dermarolled scalps. Stopping deforestation is great but we need all our sacred trees back. Let's dig holes in this devastated soil.

I will really try to get the pictures my doctors have been taking from my treatment. According to him, the hair in my crown area progressed a lot, so it will be one of the evidence you are talking about.

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@Princessrambo

Here is a research about the Nettle. My supplement is Stinging Nettle, not only the roots, so the whole thing must have more effects. I am in a hurry, so this one is the first i found, i believe it may talk about the other effects i spoke about. I will reasearch more later.

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/stinging-nettle

(i read it quickly, it doesn't say much, only a comparison to finasteride, i will find more later, try looking for Stinging Nettle instead of Nettle Roots)

 

[Sparky4444]

Supposedly there is a S-Equol supplement being released this fall by some brand...can't remember ...but I also found this

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...plement-shows-heart-health-benefits-for-obese

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..it says that only 30-50% of people have the bacteria necessary to produce Equol naturally...hmmmmmm....30%-50% right in the target range for the population of males experiencing hairloss...

 

[ganonford]

Can somebody who is not in any kind of 5 alpha reductase supression regimen still expect any kind of result (even if it is very small)?

 

[princessRambo]

really??? I beg to differ...other than finasteride, what else is spankin' DHT??? And even finasteride doesn't spank it to the point where it needs to...

What I am saying is when baldness advances so far, there is so much finasteride or dutasteride can do. You can't spank it further, Norwood 7 taking 1kg of dutasteride will not grow back their hair, period. Most people take enough finasteride already to suppress dht to a very very low level . What I am also saying is that many people are taking enough dosage of 5AR inhibitor already to lower their blood dht level even below 10 ng/dl (which is extremely low), I have seen DHT profiles of people close to 5ng/dl taking extremely high dosage of dutasteride and still nothing, . My point is that enough people are already taking enough anti androgen. The main reason for lack of regrow when in an advanced stage of hair loss is that the hormonal profile isn't the only factor at that point.

About equol, there are already studies showing that non-equol producers can into into equol producer within months by taking daidzein rich isoflavones, miso paste will further guarantee this happening as it contains one of the four critical bacteria, gives me stinking poop though...

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Dr. Van Voorhees: What is the mechanism that accounts for the miniaturization of hair?
Dr. Cotsarelis: We know that inhibiting the testosterone pathway slows down the miniaturization of the follicle. Jaworsky, Kligman, and Murphy had a paper 20 years ago showing that half the time there is also inflammation around the hair follicle, which led to some thought that maybe inflammatory cells including mast cells were contributing to hair loss. Studies and case reports of transgender operations where men become women and receive high doses of estrogen show that a scalp that was almost completely bald can have, after castration and high estrogen supplementation, a tremendous amount of hair growth.

What Cots is basically saying here is even after you chop off the ballz, completely annihilating further DHT synthesis, hair won't grow back unless you factor in other stuff, he still noted tremendous amount of growth, but not complete regrowth, there might still large amount of fibrosis and inflammation even after turning into a women by high estrogen therapy.

 

[selfaware]

.....In my idea, problems with sebum flow are important to start the alopecia process

Armando, when I first started shopping around for minoxidil some months ago, one of the online-places (a clinic in NY, if memory serves me) was talking about how sebum blocks minoxidil from getting down to the follicle. They were selling a treatment-liquid (might've been a shampoo) which they said would dissolve old sebum and remove it.

Also of interest....they said that minoxidil works ONLY when it's at/around the follicle.

'Course, they might say that just to sell their solution. But it does make some sense (and DNC and others push their lipo/nano somes for exactly this reason also).

And it also makes some sense that sebum might indeed block topicals from getting to the follicles. I.e., topicals can't diffuse through dried sebum.

Has anyone else seen mention of these things?....Does anyone have studies or links to actual studies on...

- does sebum block topicals? If so, all of them or only some?
- What solvents/cleaners DO remove sebum?...that is, actually DISSOLVE the old/dried sebum?

Note: I don't have refs for this, but I've gotten the impression, from the sum of reading a thousand things (lol), that shampoos only clean 'fresh' sebum, like from the hair itself. I don't think shampoos do any 'dissolving' of old sebum that's down inside the follicular pore.

thanks guys

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After my derma rolling session I always apply copper peptides along with emu oil and even though it stings a little, my scalp feels awesome! Makes my scalp look a lot more pinkish though...

I saw a study a week ago which said that applying emu-oil immediately after wounding will stop the process. I think they said it had to be at least 6hrs later. I've only read the abstract so far, but I -think- it's one I downloaded. I'll look for it. And there's a good chance I first heard of this study right here in this thread....like, 80 pgs ago...LOL... Anyway, search this thread for 'emu oil' and look for links....ya might find it.

ps; I haven't had time yet to do a full pubmed search on the copper peptides thing. If anyone has a few links to GOOD papers, real handy, and no trouble for you to post, I'd be grateful.

 

[Bombarie]

What about bruising our heads like a big hickey? Would'nt we do big damage underneath the skin?

Also im banging with the knockels of my hand on my head till it Gets a bit sore! Its like a hard massage!

 

[selfaware]

....I just got my peppermint oil today, will try and test it on my arm and see how much I need to dilute it. .......
Damn, I just applied 2 drops of that oil and it burns, I think I might have gone too much. It does have to be diluted in some water.

DO, to the best of my knowledge, Peppermint Oil and Japanese Mint Oil are two different things....sourced from completely different plants. I would not expect peppermint-oil to be any kind of useful anaesthetic.

Note: I saw an abstract of a study some months ago that said that peppermint-oil enhanced hair growth....or slowed loss...something along those positive lines.

 

[Armando Jose]

Interesting commentary about minoxidil and sebum plug selfaware

I think also that a shampoo in contact only minutes with scalp can not dissolve the pug sebum inside the scalp, other thing is a lotion used overnight, an example jojoba plus essential oils, Other is PG, used in the formulation with minoxidil

This study can help to understand the penetration of substances thought hair
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20600888
Follicular and percutaneous penetration pathways of topically applied minoxidil foam.


I also understand that only anagen follicles are "open", In germany exits studies in this issue

But dermarroling is another method to introduce chemicals in the skin

 

[selfaware]

Oh man... the whole thinning vs. thickening matter really confuses me, as there are multiple papers out there that definitely state that bald areas actually thicken. Maybe there are two effects at work, one thickening (through fibrosis), one thinning (through... whatever?), and the thickening is stronger?

benjt, it's possible that you're confusing a thickening (from fibrosis) of ONE LAYER, with a thickening of the whole 'skin'. It's virtually certain that the TOTAL thickness, between bone and air, is decreasing at old age. Besides the studies, human literature has been full of such references for millenia....e.g., "the ancient one's skin was like parchment"...etc. etc..

I'd expect that the one layer DOES get thicker from fibrosis, even as the SUBcutaneous FAT layer gets THINNER with age and/or alopecia. That's my take on it anyway, with the research I've done to date.

On this same subject, but from a different angle.... The sub/fat layer is said to hold many tiny blood vessels. Presumably, the growth-factors etc. that we're encouraging come FROM that layer. So even if we don't wound all the way into the bone, those growth factors should be influencing/growing the fat layer, even with shallower wounding. Likely the effect IS better/faster with more depth, but it's likely that super-depth is not -necessary-...only helpful for speed of results and full coverage (i.e. the proportionally large untreated area between the puncture-wounds).

fwiw, I started this thread from the beginning, and along the way, I've read many of the studies linked, and as I accumulate information, I'm leaning more and more towards 1.5mm and a very serious rolling-session done much less often. In other words, I wish to get as full a coverage of skin-area as I can....literally tens of thousands of punctures...apply the topicals after the recommended delay, and then let my body do its thing for at least 2 weeks, but more likely a full month before the next (again, serious full-coverage) rolling session. I expect to continue applying topics between rolling.

ps; with the recent mention (by pRambo I think?) of angiogenesis, I'm thinking of adding to the topical mix one of the compounds used by the iron-pumpers specifically for angiogenesis.

 

[squeegee]

Weekly is too short of a recovery period to benefits from derma rolling. It's been 5 days and my head is still shedding, sensitive. Out of 7 days , your head is inflamed for like 3-4 days.. so why rolling the next week? I am going bi-weekly, 3mm, deep and bloody. Only way to go to get the real benefits from the roller. Go mild, have weak results! According to numerous derma roller websites, some downtime can be 40 days+ depending to the size of the needles. The skin need time to recover and I don' think weekly is a good timeframe set for male pattern baldness madness.

 

[selfaware]

hola Armando!

And thanks very much for that link to the penetration study! That'll be helpful, and simply bringing it up on screen will give me related links and follow-on work that cites it.

Yes, the DR definitely helps with penetration...of -anything-. So I think there's quite a bit of value to periodic shallow DR, of say, .5mm...every few days during the month between deep 'wounding' sessions. It would tend to save money and compounding hassle also...since I think the solvents/carriers perhaps are not critical at all when solution is applied with .5mm DR.

Interesting commentary about minoxidil and sebum plug selfaware

I think also that a shampoo in contact only minutes with scalp can not dissolve the pug sebum inside the scalp, other thing is a lotion used overnight, an example jojoba plus essential oils, Other is PG, used in the formulation with minoxidil

This study can help to understand the penetration of substances thought hair
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20600888
Follicular and percutaneous penetration pathways of topically applied minoxidil foam.


I also understand that only anagen follicles are "open", In germany exits studies in this issue

But dermarroling is another method to introduce chemicals in the skin

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Terrybart....exactly what compounds were used in that 'peel' ?

I know it's likely you don't recall...and likely didn't even wonder at it back then...but if the person who did the peel is still available to your calls, it's likely they'll know what they were using back then. Would you find out for us the exact composition and post it? thanks!

three questions for those on the dermaroller program...

Do you need to induce bleeding for it to be effective?
Do you need to use minoxidil like the study(im allergic)
How do we know these are permament results.. will we have to have a maintenance dermaroll plan forever?

One experience I wanted to share (and I actually shared on another forum) was that about 10 years ago I had a bad case of acne so was given a TCA peel to clear up some marks. My skin peeled like crazy, but I will never forget that I got amazing growth where some of the TCA was applied to my temple, but that it wasn't permament growth. Granted I was only given ONE PEEL, so I've always wondered if the growth might have been permament if I had received more. Maybe we are on to something.. here's to hoping!

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.....You do need minoxidil in order to get terminal hair, minoxidil induces PGE2 which in turn induces fgf9, which is needed to turn the stem cells into hair follicles. If you're allergic you would have to gamble with something else and hope for the best.

fyi...PGE2 itself is available from a few of the IOP's. I.e., the offshore pharmacies. Search for "prostaglandin"...or look in their 'hormones' category...since half the stuff on those sites is misspelled anyway...lol...

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if ur skin is thin on the temples and needs to be thicker why dont we use emu/jojoba oil then after rolling etc? I guess these oils are pretty good in rebuilding fat cells

Opti, do you happen to have links handy, to those studies which show that emu or jojoba was good =specifically= for the fat-cells? I only have studies saying that emu is good for hair-health in general. Doesn't mention the subcutaneous fat-layer. thanks!

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Just wanted to post this.

For the life of me, I cannot recall why they said 192 is better than the 540 needle one.
I will post again if I remember it.

Maybe someone reading this can chyme in.

Closet, I'll bet you saw that at Sarah's site...the OwnDoc site. I recall reading the same thing some time back. If you find the reason again, do post it please.

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This was posted in the semen thread. Just as relevant here.
Wound healing phases:

Yes!...I recall seeing that graph (I'm a member there too...but haven't spent much time there).

I didn't study it carefully back then...but today...

Here are things that strike my eye, and thoughts:

- See how the Angiogenesis is peaking/mostly-complete at 1 month?
- Maturation, also, is becoming substantial at around 1 month
- If I'm understanding correctly, differentiation is still going on for about 7-14 days
- I wonder what 'Contraction' means/is ?? The source-paper likely says. Note it takes 14 days to complete.
- It is interesting to note that tissue-strength is still only 50% even at 3 months.
- Might "basement membrane" and "epithelialization" include the Subcutaneous Fat layer we need to grow?
- Odd that 'complete' is done much much sooner than 'incomplete'. Wonder if that's actually a labelling error/swap?
- Regardless of whether labels are swapped in error, it still seems to be mostly done by only 1-4 days. Interesting...
- If I understand correctly, we WANT inflammation; to a certain degree, for a certain time. Am I correct in this conclusion?
- If so, note how spread out inflammation is...becoming significant at 2-3 hours...but lasting for weeks! This seems to me to relate to the timing of application of anything that damps inflammation (even by accident, as some carriers/solvents do).

By the way, in regards to Numbing/Pain...I just saw this in my 'notes' file....not sure where I copied it from, or when...and I have not tried this myself... (emph. is mine)

"Get yourselves some ibuprofen and make some cream out of it. Apply it to the skin where you roll later on. Ibuprofen numbs nerve ends."

Also in regards to numbing....I've not seen this mentioned, but it occurs to me, seems obvious to me....put on (whatever) numbing-cream with a shallow (.5mm) DR, to vastly increase the amount getting in...and likely also vastly increasing speed of numbing effect. If someone has already suggested this, sorry for the repeat.

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TNTS, great chart on curcumin! Thanks for that. I've never seen that info collected in a single such easy to use way.

I didn't said that was new, but it's not very old also. I just said that in follica patent, Egfr inhibitor is the primary weapon for every new hair follicle development.
I don't think that if we be able to found something for blocking egfr in the scalp, it should be for a long time, because of the side effects that may be occure, but just until the epidermis stem cells take the message for differentation to a dp cells during wound healing. So, that way, we avoid the possibility that new skin and not hair follicle, will be the results of the wound.
But, even if new hair follicle show up, by blocking Egfr, it will be larger and stronger, as the patent says.

All egfr inhibitor drugs that reffered in the patent, are way too pricey, except leflunomide. At least in Europe.
I have no idea about how dangerous leflunomide is, i haven't searching it.
I just mention it.





There is also and natural egfr inhibitors, like liposomal curcumin, but it blocks alot of other things and i don't know what we really need in healing process.

View attachment 21603

 

[albert]

Weekly is too short of a recovery period to benefits from derma rolling. It's been 5 days and my head is still shedding, sensitive. Out of 7 days , your head is inflamed for like 3-4 days.. so why rolling the next week? I am going bi-weekly, 3mm, deep and bloody. Only way to go to get the real benefits from the roller. Go mild, have weak results! According to numerous derma roller websites, some downtime can be 40 days+ depending to the size of the needles. The skin need time to recover and I don' think weekly is a good timeframe set for male pattern baldness madness.

It's okay if you think it's better to not follow the exact study procedure, but I'm curious about how you hide your (most likely) red and inflamed skin during the healing time, so nobody points at you and run away scared.

 

[TheShopKeeper]

I saw a study a week ago which said that applying emu-oil immediately after wounding will stop the process. I think they said it had to be at least 6hrs later. I've only read the abstract so far, but I -think- it's one I downloaded. I'll look for it. And there's a good chance I first heard of this study right here in this thread....like, 80 pgs ago...LOL... Anyway, search this thread for 'emu oil' and look for links....ya might find it.

ps; I haven't had time yet to do a full pubmed search on the copper peptides thing. If anyone has a few links to GOOD papers, real handy, and no trouble for you to post, I'd be grateful.

Crap! So that means my last few rolls will amount to nothing. Back to square one I go...

 

[Sparky4444]

Crap! So that means my last few rolls will amount to nothing. Back to square one I go...

On this angle, I'm wondering if using Japanese Mint Oil is not helping either -- it does numb to help with the pain, but it is an anti-inflammatory as well....might just have to stab and bear it

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It's okay if you think it's better to not follow the exact study procedure, but I'm curious about how you hide your (most likely) red and inflamed skin during the healing time, so nobody points at you and run away scared.

...holy crap --- this is typical of weak, feeble, ego-centric balding men ...you think everyone is looking at you, judging you, pointing at you -- like anyone gives a crap about your scalp and what you look like ... f-u-c-k me I am tempted to let myself go bald so I don't come off like a weak little worm of a human :thumbdown2:

 

[selfaware]

Nooooooooo! Please, don't leave us.
We are many who value your input here immensely. (there will probably be hundreds of users who are not registered who value you just as much). If there is a private thread, I'd very much like to be part of it.

Seconded !

In fact, it's really odd....but in the 3 days since I began reading this thread from page-1, PR's posts have stopped showing up for me. The only time I see them now is when someone quotes him. It's bugging me because his posts have been consistently valuable...well-researched, well thought out, well-written. Anyone know what's going on?...why I suddenly can't see his posts any more?
thanks!

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You can also use the dermaroller as a stamp. I go so slowly sometimes with the roller that it's pretty much similar. That being said I do think rolling creates more damage as needles don't only get inserted, they're moving inside each wound as you roll. Unlike the stamp.

odal, that was my very first thought also, when I first looked at the pens a few days ago. Visualizing the geometry of the tips while rolling...those tips are pulling the skin quite severely as they're moving down to max depth, then pulling again on the other 'side' of the hole on the way out. 'course, we don't KNOW that that additional stress or 'massage' makes any difference...but my intuition says it probably does help. More 'stress', more 'severe' wound....= more healing activity?

 

[benjt]

benjt, it's possible that you're confusing a thickening (from fibrosis) of ONE LAYER, with a thickening of the whole 'skin'. It's virtually certain that the TOTAL thickness, between bone and air, is decreasing at old age. Besides the studies, human literature has been full of such references for millenia....e.g., "the ancient one's skin was like parchment"...etc. etc..

I'd expect that the one layer DOES get thicker from fibrosis, even as the SUBcutaneous FAT layer gets THINNER with age and/or alopecia. That's my take on it anyway, with the research I've done to date.

On this same subject, but from a different angle.... The sub/fat layer is said to hold many tiny blood vessels. Presumably, the growth-factors etc. that we're encouraging come FROM that layer. So even if we don't wound all the way into the bone, those growth factors should be influencing/growing the fat layer, even with shallower wounding. Likely the effect IS better/faster with more depth, but it's likely that super-depth is not -necessary-...only helpful for speed of results and full coverage (i.e. the proportionally large untreated area between the puncture-wounds).

Meanwhile, I came to the exact same conclusions, though I posted them in another thread (either the Detumescence Therapy or the Thermal Profile one).

fwiw, I started this thread from the beginning, and along the way, I've read many of the studies linked, and as I accumulate information, I'm leaning more and more towards 1.5mm

Don't know if you've seen one of my recent posts, but I gave a detailed account about why you need exactly 1.5 mm (or rather, at least 1.21 and less than 1.785 mm).

@ the others: I've been going on about fibrosis around follicles ever since I joined these forums and I completely agree that it is what effectively damages the follicles. There is one very crucial question to be answered though:
1. is the PGD2 produced in the follicles and spills over into neighboring tissue after androgen-induced overproduction?
or 2. is the PGD2 produced as a response of the body to local DHT, i.e., an immune response?

Also, the cross section of fibrotic scalp provided by squeegee actually made me less optimistic. Have you noticed how degenerate those follicles are? Some of them seem crushed and squeezed such that they are basically cut in half. I'm wondering if they will recover just by resolving fibrosis.

 

[selfaware]

Just want to say for all the guyz here who still got a full head of hair, that's my case, i'm like a nw1.5 with a little temple recession/thinning.
So i'm not using the dermaroller for the baldspot cause i don't have baldspots yet, i'm using it on area with some hair, And i can tell you that the dermaroller will make your hairs going trought a shed, my temples(and only my temples) took a big hit since the beginning of the use of a dermaroller.
I hope that its a good sign cuz i really lost so much hair in the space of few weeks

1st august-1st september : 1.0mm dermaroller
1st september-today:2.0mm dermaroller
Also using minoxidil like the study

For what it's worth...minoxidil ALONE causes huge shedding for a lot of people. I started minoxidil 4 wks ago (DNC-L) and it's freaking me out...LOL... I've lost literally HALF my hair. Like you, I still have good hair all over my head except the two recessions in the front. Because the hair that's in between those two recessions was obviously thinning, I've been applying the DNC-L through that central-front area along with the two 'bald' recessions. HALF the hair in that central-front zone has fallen out in just 4 wks. I keep reading that this is normal....so I'm sticking with it. Expect to begin DR'ing in a week or two; when all the tools and supplies for chosen topical blends finish coming in.

 

[squeegee]

Dermal Rolling is the only skin recovery and rejuvenation treatment that target and regulate 3 key skin cells: keratinocytes, melanocytes (melanin) and fibroblasts, without compromising the surface or integrity of the epidermis.
Growth factors released through Dermal Rolling result in corrective and regenerative healing. Unlike other methods, collagen is formed from the dermis upwards. Creating type III collagen or healthy collagen bundles verses growth factors released when when the epidermis is damaged by ablative (surface) or heat methods which in contrast produce cicatricial healing (collagen forms from the surface or top down). This is not substantive collagen. It is Collagen type One or scar collagen.
- See more at: http://skindynamicsrx.com/dermal-rolling#sthash.TIGB3Hqp.dpuf

ROLLING/STAMPING FREQUENCY
●
0.2 or 0.25 mm long needles can be used every second day on the same skin area.
●
0.5 mm long needles can be used once or twice or three times a week on the same skin area.
●
1 mm can be used every 10 to 14 days on the same skin area.
●
1.5 mm can only be used once every three to four weeks on the same skin area.
●
2.0 mm can only be used once every five weeks on the same skin area, and only if you have the
knowledge to judge which part of the skin is thick enough to safely use this needle length.
These are general, conservative guidelines. Males generally have thicker skin and can roll a bit more
frequently. Some parts of the body such as the back and buttocks have thicker skin than other areas, and
there you can shorten the interval somewhat.
You can roll with short-needled dermarollers in between the
sessions with long-needled dermarollers.

TEMPORARY EFFECTS AND PERMANENT RESULTS
When using a dermaroller with needles longer than 1 mm, you may experience some pinpoint bleeding
when rolling. This is normal and harmless. Clean the area with disinfecting alcohol. Apart from the
occasional pinpoint bleeding, you will not bleed after rolling, neither will your face swell up for days. Some
minor swelling and redness for a day or two could occur.
The rolled area will be red (like sunburn) for an hour or two.
The rolled area might start "peeling"a little after some days. Don't pick at the loose skin.
The full cycle of collagen production is a very slow, multistage process which can't be rushed. Don't expect
quick miracles. It can take up to ten months to get substantial results. It is essential to stick to the schedule
and don't give up after a few rollings. Because progress will be slow but certain, make pictures of your skin
before and during microneedling treatment and judge your progress from those.
It is not true that the more frequently you roll the better results you obtain. The skin has to be regenerated
after each roll and the initially triggered new collagen will be eventually turned into even a different type of
collagen.
Good results often start to appear only after approximately ten months
. After that, with
every passing month, if you keep rolling, the results will improve. So if you want substantial, permanent

results, you need to roll at least for about 15 to 20 months

http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf

What do we know about microneedling with the Dermaroller[SUP]®[/SUP]? Microneedles (MN) stimulate skin stem cells and cause skin cells to proliferate (cell division/multiplication). The penetration of a MN into the skin is sensed by the TEP (Trans-Epidermal-Potential) as an injury stimulus. An injury, like a cut, is defined as a disruption of tissue. This is not the case when non-traumatic micro needles puncture and penetrate the dermis without cutting it. Pricking channels are created. This stimulus, which we can also call an alarming signal, is transmitted to the cells around the pricking channel within a distance of not more than 1 to 3 mm. Although the non-traumatic needles do not disrupt the tissue (in the sense of creating a wound) the so-called wound-healing process is triggered. This process is possibly slightly altered by the MN. Skin cells communicate by means of electrical signals (electro-taxis) and chemical signals (chemo-taxis). These signals are transmitted by electrical currents (in the range of millivolt) and/or electromagnetic fields and stimulate the genes in their vicinity to multiply and to produce new cells such as fibroblasts, keratinocytes, etc. Fibroblasts are the real architects of skin structure and its repair. Wound closure by fibroblasts as they were stimulated by electrical fields was video-recorded by Min Zhao et al [1]. When the fibroblasts reach the “point of action” (wound or pricking channel) they synthesize a particular type of collagen fibres (type III). This is a one way process which cannot be reversed and which results in the production of additional collagen layers (more density). If at the “point of action” there is “nothing to repair” because there was no real wound or injury as it occurs when MN penetrate the dermis, then the new collagen fibres integrate themselves into the existing skin structure (matrix). In addition, Tissue-Growth-Factors (TGF) control the integration of new protein-molecules into the tissue. These factors (which act as signals or commands) control the structure of the new collagen fibres either to close (repair) a wound that finally results in a scar, or they settle in the existing cell structure matrix. In the case of microneedling, TGF β3 is the controlling factor for cell integration. It is the same TGF that prevents scar formation when an embryo is injured in the uterus (e.g. after amniocentesis).

Most of us are familiar with acne scars, a condition that affects young people beginning at puberty. Enclosed blackheads become inflamed and infected. Some assist in spreading this process by squeezing, scratching and other manipulations of the skin. The widespread inflammation destroys healthy tissue frequently resulting in depressed scars. However, acne scars respond very well to microneedling regardless of their appearance (crater-like or like an ice-pick), provided that the physician is well trained and that the treatment is performed under sanitary conditions. After the cicatrical (scar) tissue is sufficiently needled “according to the guidelines of our manual”, new fibroblasts migrate into the scar-bed and fill it with new collagen layers. Simultaneously, the cells that line the inner aspect of blood vessels called endothelial cells, proliferate creating new blood vessels. New tiny blood vessels (capillaries) migrate into the (old) perforated scar tissue and provide the newly formed tissue with nutrition, oxygen and blood pigments (haemoglobin). In this case the haemoglobin acts like a cosmetic pigment, and the former pale scar adopts the coloration of the surrounding healthy skin.

http://dermaroller.com/all-about-scars