****ing hell this has turned into a swamp over here. have we made any concrete improvements to the published study's methodology or are we still just hoping that bigger needles and more weeks in between rolls will yield better results? is there anyone getting better results than others? and why is there no "results only" thread on this site?
New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?
- Thread starter Jlyncher
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odalbak
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 11
No it doesn't work at all. No photo, no positive post. A couple of vellus hair at best, at the price of unbearable physical suffering for months. This promising method has just become a valley of tears, a bitter collective deception. It was just a fraud inspired by Al Qaeda and aimed at promoting some local clinic in Mumbai, Maharashtra, and slowly kill westerners with scalp tumors. None of the researchers were real scientists but only gangsters wearing white coats. We've all become zombies, with a sick compulsion for self mutilation. Out of despair some even turned into the ultimate degeneracy: bukkake. There's no point for you coming back here. Just leave this wreck. Don't waste time posting questions or even read comments. Thanks.
- Reaction score
- 185
Some people observing improvements already, others just shedding, but this is moving on. Of course we're also hoping to get better results varying the procedure. I don't see anything wrong on it. If you want a "results only" thread, go create it.
Sparky4444
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 44
I'm posting a reply after each stabbing...Everyone should keep it to that --- At each stabbing, state the number you're at and what you're seeing...I'm at 5, got nothing, with good blood-letting...only non-PPG minoxidil every other day or so...not really being vigilante with the topicals...
Anything that can be ordered online in Europe which could help coping with dermarolling pain? Last time was awful
I smoke some weed
I use it only for therapeutic reasons, not recreational, I don't tolerate very good painkillers
peacemaker
Banned
- Reaction score
- 22
Hi guys, great thread!
I am a 21 yr old w/ Norwood 2. i look ok when i comb my hair to the side. i have lots of vellus hair, which i want to thicken to restore my hairline.
i guess i would be one of the best candidates for a pure dermaroller study because ive never used any supplements before (just 2 days of minoxidil before my gf hid it from me.)
i bought 1 mm 2 mm and 3mm dermarollers. i am planning to start from the 1mm and work my way up to the 3mm.
currently, the only supplements i am taking daily are a multivitamin tablet (which includes biotin and little saw palmetto) and krill oil tablet (for omega 3). i also workout daily.
my dermarollers will arrive in 2 weeks. i took a picture of my scalp and the vellus hair in hd and will document my progress for 3 months and share them w you. best of luck to everyone
I am a 21 yr old w/ Norwood 2. i look ok when i comb my hair to the side. i have lots of vellus hair, which i want to thicken to restore my hairline.
i guess i would be one of the best candidates for a pure dermaroller study because ive never used any supplements before (just 2 days of minoxidil before my gf hid it from me.)
i bought 1 mm 2 mm and 3mm dermarollers. i am planning to start from the 1mm and work my way up to the 3mm.
currently, the only supplements i am taking daily are a multivitamin tablet (which includes biotin and little saw palmetto) and krill oil tablet (for omega 3). i also workout daily.
my dermarollers will arrive in 2 weeks. i took a picture of my scalp and the vellus hair in hd and will document my progress for 3 months and share them w you. best of luck to everyone
K
karankaran
Guest
You are knocking at the wrong door, bud! here is how this thread works, there are a couple of people who swear by this methodology...Nothing wrong with it , but if you ask them about results or even hint at criticizing their approach or theory, they will turn hostile ...You can wait for some sane people to update results in the thread or wait for the study to be reproduced....
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BTW Guys, if you use 50% TCA peel it will reach the lower part of dermis , this can break fibrosis like nothing but might be dangerous coz of scarring...
odalbak
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 11
Here is how your bul**** works, you don't read this thread well and criticize its main contributors… Squeegee and princessrambo, have posted results. To critize their approach you just need to substantiate your skepticism with either clever arguments or scientific studies. Instead with have moaners, too lazy to read the thread or too dumb to provide intelligent arguments.
Whatever happened to that PGD 2 thing I saw like 40 articles from all kinds of reliable media sources saying male pattern baldness was basically cured in 2 years? How did we go from a cure to I guess rolling little spikes into our heads to increase blood flow or improve penetration or something? male pattern baldness treatments from what I am seeing are going backwards in progress somehow.
Ok. So i went to my doctor and finally got the CD with the pictures. Since they don't care lots about taking pictures, the pictures that were taken 3 months after i started are good, the others not so much. I have good pictures from July also, so i will use the ones from 3 months after the beggining of the treatment (first time they took pictures) and the ones from 1 year and one month after. So, the pictures that will be seeing here are from June 08th, 2012 and July, 27th, 2013
Important Facts
- We didn't start doing the dermarolling on all my scalp and temples from the start. We only started doing the rolling REALLY hard (we already took blood from the start, but now we do it harder) and in the whole scalp in January. I also only started using minoxidil in December. So my results got a lot better from january on. And now my hair is even better, it is getting better way faster now. I think i will be able to take new pictures in the same place in 1 month to see the differences. I bet my hair improved a lot since July.
- As i said before. My hair was falling fast (finasteride was NOT stopping it) till i started doing the procedure. This means i did not only experienced regrowth, the treatment prevented me from going completely bald. If it didn't stop my hair from falling, i would be completely (or almost completely) bald by now.
- I only did the procedure 1x per month, sometimes only after 1.5 month. So, the pictures were 1 year apart, but things were VERY slow. Now i am doing it twice a month and the results are coming very fast, i am seeing comestic improvements constantly. In the studies, the procedure only started to work after 6 procedures had been done. This would be like 7 months to me (the way i was doing before), and i only started minoxidil way later, so, that is why i think the results are faster now.
Results
The pictures are not exactly in the same position, but in this you can see a pretty good regrowth on my crown area (pretty sure it is way better now);
Now pictures from the top. Here you can see a lot more volume on the top and overall:
And here there are the microscope pictures i said my doctor took last time. You can see all kinds of new hair growing (some really new, some not so much and also full grown hair) in my crown area. This was taken also before the procedure, so you can see a lot of tiny holes where new hair may or may not start growing.
Well, that is it. There are pictures from the procedures too (when we didn't do as much damage as we do now) that i could share. I think there is a video on the cd too. When i have more time i will check.
- - - Updated - - -
I have been saying and no one believes me. This **** works, if done properly.
Important Facts
- We didn't start doing the dermarolling on all my scalp and temples from the start. We only started doing the rolling REALLY hard (we already took blood from the start, but now we do it harder) and in the whole scalp in January. I also only started using minoxidil in December. So my results got a lot better from january on. And now my hair is even better, it is getting better way faster now. I think i will be able to take new pictures in the same place in 1 month to see the differences. I bet my hair improved a lot since July.
- As i said before. My hair was falling fast (finasteride was NOT stopping it) till i started doing the procedure. This means i did not only experienced regrowth, the treatment prevented me from going completely bald. If it didn't stop my hair from falling, i would be completely (or almost completely) bald by now.
- I only did the procedure 1x per month, sometimes only after 1.5 month. So, the pictures were 1 year apart, but things were VERY slow. Now i am doing it twice a month and the results are coming very fast, i am seeing comestic improvements constantly. In the studies, the procedure only started to work after 6 procedures had been done. This would be like 7 months to me (the way i was doing before), and i only started minoxidil way later, so, that is why i think the results are faster now.
Results
The pictures are not exactly in the same position, but in this you can see a pretty good regrowth on my crown area (pretty sure it is way better now);
Now pictures from the top. Here you can see a lot more volume on the top and overall:
And here there are the microscope pictures i said my doctor took last time. You can see all kinds of new hair growing (some really new, some not so much and also full grown hair) in my crown area. This was taken also before the procedure, so you can see a lot of tiny holes where new hair may or may not start growing.
Well, that is it. There are pictures from the procedures too (when we didn't do as much damage as we do now) that i could share. I think there is a video on the cd too. When i have more time i will check.
- - - Updated - - -
I have been saying and no one believes me. This **** works, if done properly.
DesperateOne
Banned
- Reaction score
- 18
You belong on the other forum, this one is too advanced for you. TBT is for the kiddies and this one is for grown ups.
Are you blind? There is a lot, specially if you look at the second pictures. Plus, as i said, but you probably didn't read, my hair fast falling very fast, without the treatment i would be NW6 by now. Easily.
Jacob
Senior Member
- Reaction score
- 44
Holy :shock: ..gone for 4 days and it takes longer to catch up on this thread than all the other hair loss forums I visit, combined.
Scalp peels was another big topic some time ago. I think it came up again with the LLLT talk- using it in conjunction with laser'n. I personally will probably hold off on something like that until after the winter, if it looks like I'm not getting results others may be getting. I have been using an anti-fibrosis topical for quite some time(mainly just once or twice a week) so maybe I'm ok in that area anyway.
I saw curcumin, topically, mentioned. It's something that's in one of the Elsom topicals I use. Yes, it "stains"..is very yellow. But it washes out in the morning.
Scalp peels was another big topic some time ago. I think it came up again with the LLLT talk- using it in conjunction with laser'n. I personally will probably hold off on something like that until after the winter, if it looks like I'm not getting results others may be getting. I have been using an anti-fibrosis topical for quite some time(mainly just once or twice a week) so maybe I'm ok in that area anyway.
I saw curcumin, topically, mentioned. It's something that's in one of the Elsom topicals I use. Yes, it "stains"..is very yellow. But it washes out in the morning.
squeegee
Banned
- Reaction score
- 132
Wounding enhances epidermal tumorigenesis by recruiting hair follicle keratinocytes
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/10/4099/F4.expansion.html
Wounding enhances epidermal tumorigenesis by recruiting hair follicle keratinocytes.
Kasper M, Jaks V, Are A, Bergström Å, Schwäger A, Svärd J, Teglund S, Barker N, Toftgård R.
Source
Center for Biosciences and Department of Biosciences and Nutrition, Karolinska Institutet, Novum, 141 83 Huddinge, Sweden.
Erratum in
Abstract
Chronic wounds and acute trauma constitute well-established risk factors for development of epithelial-derived skin tumors, although the underlying mechanisms are largely unknown. Basal cell carcinomas (BCCs) are the most common skin cancers displaying a number of features reminiscent of hair follicle (HF)-derived cells and are dependent on deregulated Hedgehog (Hh)/GLI signaling. Here we show, in a mouse model conditionally expressing GLI1 and in a model with homozygous inactivation of Ptch1, mimicking the situation in human BCCs, that the wound environment accelerates the initiation frequency and growth of BCC-like lesions. Lineage tracing reveals that both oncogene activation and wounding induce emigration of keratinocytes residing in the lower bulge and the nonpermanent part of the HFs toward the interfollicular epidermis (IFE). However, only oncogene activation in combination with a wound environment enables the participation of such cells in the initiation of BCC-like lesions at the HF openings and in the IFE. We conclude that, in addition to the direct enhancement of BCC growth, the tumor-promoting effect of the wound environment is due to recruitment of tumor-initiating cells originating from the neighboring HFs, establishing a link between epidermal wounds and skin cancer risk.
[h=1]Epidermal stem cells arise from the hair follicle after wounding[/h]
http://www.fasebj.org/content/21/7/1358.full
Dickkopf 1 promotes regression of hair follicles.
Kwack MH, Kim MK, Kim JC, Sung YK.
Source
Department of Immunology, School of Medicine, Kyungpook National University, Daegu, Korea.
Abstract
Recently, we suggested that Dickkopf 1 (DKK-1) is a pathogenic mediator involved in male pattern baldness. As premature catagen onset is a key characteristic of male pattern baldness, in this study, we evaluated whether DKK-1 has a role as a catagen inducer in hair cycling. Herein, we report that recombinant human DKK-1 (rhDKK-1) injection into the hypodermis of mice during anagen caused premature onset of catagen, whereas neutralizing DKK-1 antibody delayed anagen-to-catagen transition in mice. Moreover, treatment with rhDKK-1 led to a decrease in final hair follicle length, whereas DKK-1 antibody led to an increase compared with control animals. In addition, DKK-1 and DKK-1 messenger RNA expression is most upregulated in follicular keratinocytes of late anagen in depilation-induced hair cycle progression. Moreover, we observed that rhDKK-1 blocks canonical Wnt-mediated activation of β-catenin signaling and induces the proapoptotic protein Bax, resulting in apoptosis in outer root sheath keratinocytes. Taken together, our data strongly suggest that DKK-1 is involved in anagen-to-catagen transition in the hair cycle by regulating the activity of follicular keratinocytes.
Dihydrotestosterone-inducible dickkopf 1 from balding dermal papilla cells causes apoptosis in follicular keratinocytes.
Kwack MH, Sung YK, Chung EJ, Im SU, Ahn JS, Kim MK, Kim JC.
Source
Department of Immunology, School of Medicine, Kyungpook National University, Daegu, Korea.
Abstract
Recent studies suggest that androgen-driven alteration to the autocrine and paracrine factors produced by scalp dermal papilla (DP) cells may be a key to androgen-potentiated balding. Here, we screened dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-regulated genes in balding DP cells and found that dickkopf 1 (DKK-1) is one of the most upregulated genes. DKK-1 messenger RNA is upregulated in 3-6 hours after 50-100 nM DHT treatment and ELISA showed that DKK-1 is secreted from DP cells in response to DHT. A co-culture system using outer root sheath (ORS) keratinocytes and DP cells showed that DHT inhibits the growth of ORS cells, and neutralizing antibody against DKK-1 significantly reversed the growth inhibition of ORS cells. Analysis of co-cultured ORS cells showed a significant increment of sub-G1 apoptotic cells in response to DHT. Also, recombinant human DKK-1 inhibited the growth of ORS cells and triggered apoptotic cell death. In addition, DHT-induced epithelial cell death in cultured hair follicles was reversed by neutralizing DKK-1 antibody. Moreover, immunoblotting showed that the DKK-1 level is up in the bald scalp compared with the haired scalp of patients with androgenetic alopecia. Altogether, our data strongly suggest that DHT-inducible DKK-1 is involved in DHT-driven balding.
http://www.pnas.org/content/108/10/4099/F4.expansion.html
Wounding enhances epidermal tumorigenesis by recruiting hair follicle keratinocytes.
Kasper M, Jaks V, Are A, Bergström Å, Schwäger A, Svärd J, Teglund S, Barker N, Toftgård R.
Source
Center for Biosciences and Department of Biosciences and Nutrition, Karolinska Institutet, Novum, 141 83 Huddinge, Sweden.
Erratum in
- Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2012 Apr 3;109(14):5548. Svärd, Jessica [added]; Teglund, Stephan [added].
Abstract
Chronic wounds and acute trauma constitute well-established risk factors for development of epithelial-derived skin tumors, although the underlying mechanisms are largely unknown. Basal cell carcinomas (BCCs) are the most common skin cancers displaying a number of features reminiscent of hair follicle (HF)-derived cells and are dependent on deregulated Hedgehog (Hh)/GLI signaling. Here we show, in a mouse model conditionally expressing GLI1 and in a model with homozygous inactivation of Ptch1, mimicking the situation in human BCCs, that the wound environment accelerates the initiation frequency and growth of BCC-like lesions. Lineage tracing reveals that both oncogene activation and wounding induce emigration of keratinocytes residing in the lower bulge and the nonpermanent part of the HFs toward the interfollicular epidermis (IFE). However, only oncogene activation in combination with a wound environment enables the participation of such cells in the initiation of BCC-like lesions at the HF openings and in the IFE. We conclude that, in addition to the direct enhancement of BCC growth, the tumor-promoting effect of the wound environment is due to recruitment of tumor-initiating cells originating from the neighboring HFs, establishing a link between epidermal wounds and skin cancer risk.
[h=1]Epidermal stem cells arise from the hair follicle after wounding[/h]
http://www.fasebj.org/content/21/7/1358.full
Dickkopf 1 promotes regression of hair follicles.
Kwack MH, Kim MK, Kim JC, Sung YK.
Source
Department of Immunology, School of Medicine, Kyungpook National University, Daegu, Korea.
Abstract
Recently, we suggested that Dickkopf 1 (DKK-1) is a pathogenic mediator involved in male pattern baldness. As premature catagen onset is a key characteristic of male pattern baldness, in this study, we evaluated whether DKK-1 has a role as a catagen inducer in hair cycling. Herein, we report that recombinant human DKK-1 (rhDKK-1) injection into the hypodermis of mice during anagen caused premature onset of catagen, whereas neutralizing DKK-1 antibody delayed anagen-to-catagen transition in mice. Moreover, treatment with rhDKK-1 led to a decrease in final hair follicle length, whereas DKK-1 antibody led to an increase compared with control animals. In addition, DKK-1 and DKK-1 messenger RNA expression is most upregulated in follicular keratinocytes of late anagen in depilation-induced hair cycle progression. Moreover, we observed that rhDKK-1 blocks canonical Wnt-mediated activation of β-catenin signaling and induces the proapoptotic protein Bax, resulting in apoptosis in outer root sheath keratinocytes. Taken together, our data strongly suggest that DKK-1 is involved in anagen-to-catagen transition in the hair cycle by regulating the activity of follicular keratinocytes.
Dihydrotestosterone-inducible dickkopf 1 from balding dermal papilla cells causes apoptosis in follicular keratinocytes.
Kwack MH, Sung YK, Chung EJ, Im SU, Ahn JS, Kim MK, Kim JC.
Source
Department of Immunology, School of Medicine, Kyungpook National University, Daegu, Korea.
Abstract
Recent studies suggest that androgen-driven alteration to the autocrine and paracrine factors produced by scalp dermal papilla (DP) cells may be a key to androgen-potentiated balding. Here, we screened dihydrotestosterone (DHT)-regulated genes in balding DP cells and found that dickkopf 1 (DKK-1) is one of the most upregulated genes. DKK-1 messenger RNA is upregulated in 3-6 hours after 50-100 nM DHT treatment and ELISA showed that DKK-1 is secreted from DP cells in response to DHT. A co-culture system using outer root sheath (ORS) keratinocytes and DP cells showed that DHT inhibits the growth of ORS cells, and neutralizing antibody against DKK-1 significantly reversed the growth inhibition of ORS cells. Analysis of co-cultured ORS cells showed a significant increment of sub-G1 apoptotic cells in response to DHT. Also, recombinant human DKK-1 inhibited the growth of ORS cells and triggered apoptotic cell death. In addition, DHT-induced epithelial cell death in cultured hair follicles was reversed by neutralizing DKK-1 antibody. Moreover, immunoblotting showed that the DKK-1 level is up in the bald scalp compared with the haired scalp of patients with androgenetic alopecia. Altogether, our data strongly suggest that DHT-inducible DKK-1 is involved in DHT-driven balding.
K
karankaran
Guest
I have read this thread from page 1 , so do not oink... I have never criticized anybody's results, infact results are more than welcome, I am a fan of princessrambo's findings, what that guy was asking is if we can have a results thread.... I have contributed to this thread by sharing my insights.... do not act as if you ****ing own this place or thread....regarding me being dumb , you socialist piece of ****. for you being intelligent means - just saying yes to everything people like you say.... and btw i am a graduate student at one of the best universities in the world and I do not need a certificate from you regarding my intelligence.... summing everything in two words , **** off...
squeegee
Banned
- Reaction score
- 132
Schooling and being top student has nothing to do with intelligence... ..misconception of the modern society. Keep drinking the kool-aid TOP STUDENT
K
karankaran
Guest
I can see hair regrowth and I am more sure that the study works.... I was thinking of starting it from 1st May but I cannot wait, I will start from 1st November and see how it goes....
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