New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[DesperateOne]

Closet, I shed skin like an iguana already with derma rolling. It is safe and build up new capillaries. You should stick with the derma rolling business.. just roll it harder! LOL Glycolic Acid peel can be add-on as well.. I am tempted to try it but I am at day 4 and my scalp is still full of yellow dead skin which is good. By rolling hard, you are activating Epidermal Growth Factors and speed up Keratinization which is slowed down in the presence of Androgen. According to Wikipedia.. the same Growth Factors help the migration of progenitor stem cell..

The majority of progenitor cells lie dormant or possess little activity in the tissue in which they reside. They exhibit slow growth and their main role is to replace cells lost by normal attrition. In case of tissue injury, damaged or dead cells, progenitor cells can be activated. Growth factors or cytokines are two substances that trigger the progenitors to mobilize toward the damaged tissue.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progenitor_cell

So if I remember correctly, you were going to start taking estrogen? Do you plan to inject it or what, will probably compliment you other cream.

 

[squeegee]

So if I remember correctly, you were going to start taking estrogen? Do you plan to inject it or what, will probably compliment you other cream.

What? LOL never said that. I said that estrogen accelerates keratinization and cell division. This is why females have beautiful soft looking skin.

- - - Updated - - -

Wounds to the skin will be repaired in part by the migration of keratinocytes to fill in the gap created by the wound. The first set of keratinocytes to participate in that repair come from the bulge region of the hair follicle and will only survive transiently. Within the healed epidermis they will be replaced by keratinocytes originating from the epidermis.[SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP]
At the opposite, epidermal keratinocytes, can contribute to de novo hair follicle formation during the healing of large wounds.[SUP][29]

[/SUP] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keratinocyte[SUP]
[/SUP]

 

[theRA]

what iv noticed is that I bleed more on the areas that have less hair, so in theory those areas have more blood flow and more capillaries, so here is where the logic is a bit weird - we are trying to promote blood flow on a place that already has more blood flow then non-bald areas....

 

[opti]

i ve read some articles that fat cells are giving the hair signals to grow.Since u bleed less in balded areas ,you have pretty less fat cells in the skin.would be my logic..

update :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7625861

 

[Rocky V]

i have a question for all of you. Would you consider your hair/scalp to be oily or dry? I feel like guys who have oily hair/scalps are more prone to male pattern baldness than people with dry hair/scalps.

Also, I think apple cider vinegar would be a good complement to dermarollers. It acts as an exfoliant.

 

[albert]

i have a question for all of you. Would you consider your hair/scalp to be oily or dry? I feel like guys who have oily hair/scalps are more prone to male pattern baldness than people with dry hair/scalps.

We discussed that before and yes, mbp people usually have shiny (i.e. oily) scalps - myself included.

BTW I roll hard and some dead skin falls out, specially from my temples/hairline, so I guess I'm doing the right thing. Seven weeks in and still waiting for some results, but I'm only shedding

 

[Jorged]

Proliferative Phase (3-5 Days) The first responders recruit the repair cells – fibroblasts and endothelial and epithelial cells. New blood vessels are formed (angiogenesis) to replace the damaged ones and to act as a transport for building materials and removal of waste from building new tissue. Initially there is an over abundance of blood vessels to cope with the increased oxygen demands of the repair process. Eventually they are destroyed once they are not required A wound must be hastily closed so new collagen type III is produced to form granulation tissue.

For what I have read the appearence of granulation tissue is a good sign. When a wound starts granulating it means that the body is starting to rebuild after the injury. This tissue may eventually scar over. This scar may fade over time, especially if the wound is small (in case of the dermaroller almost microscopic).

In some cases, specially when a wound is constantly being reopened, the body produces too much granulation tissue in a condition known as proud flesh. In the case of proud flesh the tissue constantly overgrows, not allowing the body to move on to the next stage healing, and very often into a bigger and permanent scar. So we will maybe not want to over dermaroll but give more time between sessions.

With the exception of very minor lesions, every wound results in some degree of scarring. An exception to this is animals with regeneration (many families of mice), which do not form scars and the tissue will grow back exactly as before.

The paradox here is that both microneedling (by induction of collagen) and chemical peels (like glycolic acid) are used for the removal of scars. Chemicals peels must be used with caution though, very deep peels can be susceptible to keloid formation, particularly for dark skinned individuals, therefore more scarring instead of the benefitial effect.

Maybe someone with more knowledge like PrincessRambo can elaborate further on this issue.

 

[Morinohtar]

squeegee, you should take a picture after you dermarolle, so we can see that bloodish head of your!!!!


I bleed more and more, getting used to the punctures. It hurts still, and will continue to, but i can endure more and more

 

[squeegee]

For what I have read the appearence of granulation tissue is a good sign. When a wound starts granulating it means that the body is starting to rebuild after the injury. This tissue may eventually scar over. This scar may fade over time, especially if the wound is small (in case of the dermaroller almost microscopic).

In some cases, specially when a wound is constantly being reopened, the body produces too much granulation tissue in a condition known as proud flesh. In the case of proud flesh the tissue constantly overgrows, not allowing the body to move on to the next stage healing, and very often into a bigger and permanent scar. So we will maybe not want to over dermaroll but give more time between sessions.

With the exception of very minor lesions, every wound results in some degree of scarring. An exception to this is animals with regeneration (many families of mice), which do not form scars and the tissue will grow back exactly as before.

The paradox here is that both microneedling (by induction of collagen) and chemical peels (like glycolic acid) are used for the removal of scars. Chemicals peels must be used with caution though, very deep peels can be susceptible to keloid formation, particularly for dark skinned individuals, therefore more scarring instead of the benefitial effect.

Maybe someone with more knowledge like PrincessRambo can elaborate further on this issue.

Scar over? The skin damaged by micro-needling doesn't induce scarring. Chemical Peels is another story. If you abuse it.. that could be long term side effects!.. but you have control over the derma-roller not the chemical peels.

- - - Updated - - -

squeegee, you should take a picture after you dermarolle, so we can see that bloodish head of your!!!!


I bleed more and more, getting used to the punctures. It hurts still, and will continue to, but i can endure more and more

LOl Ok I will..

 

[benjt]

Update from my side: Ever since the 20 or so new terminal hair that I noticed one and a half weeks ago, nothing new. I was hoping that there was more to come, but nothing as of now.

Maybe minoxidil is crucial and wounding alone doesnt cut it.

 

[Sparky4444]

Update from my side: Ever since the 20 or so new terminal hair that I noticed one and a half weeks ago, nothing new. I was hoping that there was more to come, but nothing as of now.

Maybe minoxidil is crucial and wounding alone doesnt cut it.

Yeah -- I wondering the same thing as I have really nothing, having been pretty much just wounding with the odd minoxidil application...There are a few vellus hairs popping up but those follicles shedded recently so they may just be hanging...the wounding may have helped them breathe a few more breath's here...

I have nothing on the slick temple that's been barren for years now...

 

[bhwbj]

Yeah -- I wondering the same thing as I have really nothing, having been pretty much just wounding with the odd minoxidil application...There are a few vellus hairs popping up but those follicles shedded recently so they may just be hanging...the wounding may have helped them breathe a few more breath's here...

I have nothing on the slick temple that's been barren for years now...

How long have you been rolling and how often do you roll? I am allergic to minoxidil and planned on starting a 1x/week 1.5mm rolling session (without minoxidil) next week..... I'm really interested in hearing from others who roll without using minoxidil. -Great thread here btw

 

[Jacob]

That yellow stain will not wash out the next morning, trust me. (I did try this)

But I did see someone post about 'white' curcumin.
I forgot which hairloss forum I read it in. it was 2 days ago. It was either this thread or the IH forum.
The white curcumin will not stain, apparently.

But it washes out every time- I use it nightly. Elsom uses nanosome and other tech- he explained at one point why it is their product doesn't actually "stain"..but I can't remember what was said. I've joked that I look like Homer Simpson with the stuff on my scalp- that is how yellow and "stained" it looks. But in the morning after shampoo'n it's no longer there.

And yeah, I've sent him/Elsom the link to that stuff- I think there's another brand out there as well that is white or pale colored. That doesn't mean he'll use it though..

- - - Updated - - -

Here's one of the other "white" ones: http://www.lotioncrafter.com/tetracurcuminoids.html

I'm sure that C[SUP]3[/SUP] Reduct stuff claims to be better though.

 

[odalbak]

For those that missed it like me, despite squeegee, an interesting post by joseph… in 2008. Beside dermarolling, he used retin-a and curcumin.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/25910-Skin-Needling/page15

 

[brunobald]

Odalbak, his best results were noted when using. topical lithium (orotate,) EGCG, MSM (or DMSO,) cayenne etc. He stated that the few thick hairs that appeared below his hair line seem to be DHT resistant, maybe suggesting they are totally new hairs? Follica also bang on about lithium as the holy grail.

Has anyone tried to contact Joseph49853?

 

[Jacob]

He hasn't been around since 2011 it says. Posts like that don't mean much unless he's still doing well hair-wise...

 

[albert]

I'd like to quote the following post from TBT and ask to you all guys what do you think (I posted this graph pages ago as well):

I'm switching over to dermarolling every two weeks. However, I'm being more aggressive with wounding each time I do it; drawing more blood, pressing as hard as possible (full 1.5mm depth), rolling many time over the same area and sometimes 1-3x in a single day.

A couple weeks ago I dermarolled 3 times in one day at 2 hour intervals and applied minoxidil shortly after during one of the sessions. It stung, due to the alcohol, but no side effects what so ever.

My reasons for waiting a two week period is in regards to the following graph on wounding and healing process:

Notice that at the 7-14 day mark there are a LOT of interesting things happening? By dermarolling/wounding every 7 days its POSSIBLE that we are in constant reset mode and the healing process is never achieved, thus not inducing the necessary growth factors.

When I waited my two week period, I noticed that a LOT of dead skin was being shed after 7 days, which could suggest that this time frame works.

 

[super]

Have to be honest here, but it's difficult for me to see which one is the after or before. There is one thing you can be sure of, is that you maintained. So congrats on that.

Did you look at them only small or did you click to open them and really see it? If you do, open the second pair of pictures, click next and then return. Do that and look to specific areas. You will see the crown area had a good progress, and overall the difference in volume is pretty good. Focus on the top of the head (no the crown area) and you will see huge differences in volume. Just go from one picture to the other and you will see. Crown aread progressed a little bit in many areas and the volume changed a lot, specially in the top front area of the head. If you focus on specific areas of the crown you will see that all of them progressed and got more hairs (volume).

Also, as i stated before. I had no hair on my temples. No i have, and the volume is getting better there too.

 

[Sparky4444]

How long have you been rolling and how often do you roll? I am allergic to minoxidil and planned on starting a 1x/week 1.5mm rolling session (without minoxidil) next week..... I'm really interested in hearing from others who roll without using minoxidil. -Great thread here btw

1x/week with 1.5mm...Japanese Mint Oil (Hagina) to numb the pain (works very well)....minoxidil with no-PPG every other day or say..

 

[Conpecia]

No it doesn't work at all. No photo, no positive post. A couple of vellus hair at best, at the price of unbearable physical suffering for months. This promising method has just become a valley of tears, a bitter collective deception. It was just a fraud inspired by Al Qaeda and aimed at promoting some local clinic in Mumbai, Maharashtra, and slowly kill westerners with scalp tumors. None of the researchers were real scientists but only gangsters wearing white coats. We've all become zombies, with a sick compulsion for self mutilation. Out of despair some even turned into the ultimate degeneracy: bukkake. There's no point for you coming back here. Just leave this wreck. Don't waste time posting questions or even read comments. Thanks.

what a story. alas, your reading comprehension is poor as your imagination. where in my original post did i question the effectiveness of dermarolling, tolstoy? i wanted to know if a consensus evolution has been made to the study's methodology, i.e. has it been improved upon. which is impossible to find here because there isn't a results only thread clearly and quickly identifying how long everybody has been rolling for, what needle they are using, how often they are rolling, pics of progress, etc.

but wait, i've interrupted you. do continue...