Oral Steroid Made My Hair Grow Back Thicker!

[whatevr]

What do you think the best available treatments are currently?

Very individual. Use the least aggressive treatments necessary to maintain a satisfactory level of hair.
I would try prostaglandin angle with cetirizine and ancillaries like castor oil and stemoxydine as entry level and likely to have the least side effects.

Take a gamble on finasteride if that doesn't work (oral, topical doesn't seem any safer and works even less).

Once you have to use androgen receptor antagonists it gets ugly really quickly but for some people that is the only thing that can help, since that's what the cause is for most of us in the first place (we don't make endogenous androgen receptor antagonists in our hair for whatever reason).

Antioxidants like glutathione in high doses work to a point. I think there is also some promise in DKK1 and TGF beta inhibitors but there is nothing out there specifically for hair yet.

 

[Selb]

In line with what I wrote above, I believe estrogen is unnecessary when your hair follicles synthesize normal amounts of epi-testosterone to protect them from androgens.

That is why "non-male pattern baldness" dudes can run hard steroid cycles, PCT with antiestrogens like arimidex and tamoxifen, and not have more than a couple of hairs knocked off their head. Estrogen is not that critical for male hair. It is only critical in those prone to male pattern baldness because it marginally helps compensate for lack of epi-T by counteracting T and knocking down 5-AR. As a monotherapy for male pattern baldness, E2 works poorly. You have to use gobs of estrogen to make a dent unless you also use androgen inhibitors with it. I think that says everything.

If that’s the case, why not supplement with epitestosterone?

And estrogen isn’t just critical for those reasons, it also regrows or activates dormant follicles. It reverses the cascading processes associated with male pattern baldness. If stopping androgens worked, dutasteride would cure baldness. But even then you still need regrowth. Like even if we restored proper hormonal levels in the follicles with a good epitestosterone ratio, you won’t regain lost hair. We need treatments to actually grow back crap from thinning or bald areas. The best thing we have for that is minoxidil and microneedling or oral minoxidil

 

[whatevr]

If that’s the case, why not supplement with epitestosterone?

And estrogen isn’t just critical for those reasons, it also regrows or activates dormant follicles. It reverses the cascading processes associated with male pattern baldness. If stopping androgens worked, dutasteride would cure baldness. But even then you still need regrowth. Like even if we restored proper hormonal levels in the follicles with a good epitestosterone ratio, you won’t regain lost hair. We need treatments to actually grow back crap from thinning or bald areas. The best thing we have for that is minoxidil and microneedling or oral minoxidil

Same reason you don't 'supplement' any other anti-androgen - systemic side effects. The amount of epitestosterone in serum is fine, so adding it systemically would screw you up with sides probably. And the other question is if the ratio is fine in serum, why is there so little in the hair follicle? Probably because it synthesizes its own, and injecting it may not deliver significant amounts to the follicle where it's actually needed.

My comment regarding estrogen working poorly was in regard to stopping hair loss on its own. There are obviously 2 components to hair loss - maintenance, and regrowing, which is a whole other ball game. I agree that estrogen is helpful for regrowth, but only ONCE you've fully stopped the damage with an anti-androgen.

 

[Norwoody]

I mean, practically there is something quite close to a "cure" in HRT, but it has a side effect of breasts and destroying masculinity.... Which begs the question, would micro doses of HRT even work? It seems like some have tried with no great regrowth results, just seems that you have to go all or nothing with it. The people who are on stuff like bica and flut don't seem to have much regrowth at low doses, at high doses they get results but also significant sides..

 

[Selb]

I mean, practically there is something quite close to a "cure" in HRT, but it has a side effect of breasts and destroying masculinity.... Which begs the question, would micro doses of HRT even work? It seems like some have tried with no great regrowth results, just seems that you have to go all or nothing with it. The people who are on stuff like bica and flut don't seem to have much regrowth at low doses, at high doses they get results but also significant sides..

We’ve gotta wait for smarter drug delivery systems before we can take advantage of HRT for hairloss

 

[Harleyj888]

There is nothing to explain. Obviously reducing DHT reduces the ratio of androgens:antiandrogens in the hair follicle which results in a healthier environment for hair to grow in.

That doesn't make it the right way of dealing with things however. Research should be directed at why there is a lack of epitestosterone in balding follicles and how to restore the hormonal balance to normal so that the hair follicle can be protected from androgens once again.

But you’re saying the cause of hair loss is a high test to epitest ratio. How does finasteride increase epitest? infact wouldn’t finasteride make the test:epi test ratio worse as fina increases your testosterone levels marginally?

 

[whatevr]

But you’re saying the cause of hair loss is a high test to epitest ratio. How does finasteride increase epitest? infact wouldn’t finasteride make the test:epi test ratio worse as fina increases your testosterone levels marginally?

Epitestosterone is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor and an androgen receptor antagonist. Do you see where this is going yet?

 

[czecha]

Given that athletes have taken epitestosterone and competed on the highest of levels I‘m under the impression that many people here have tried wilder stuff than buying epi-t, and taking it orally or making it a topical.
I just read the studies, quite amazing I never heard of them. They seem strong.
Is no one comfortable playing the lab rat?

 

[czecha]

Floyd Landis had a 11:1 t/e ratio in urine and no signs of balding. If your theory is true, this is only happening in the follicle/peripheral tissue

https://academic.oup.com/jat/article-pdf/24/2/102/2537057/24-2-102.pdf

 

[ChemHead]

In line with what I wrote above, I believe estrogen is unnecessary when your hair follicles synthesize normal amounts of epi-testosterone to protect them from androgens.

That is why "non-male pattern baldness" dudes can run hard steroid cycles, PCT with antiestrogens like arimidex and tamoxifen, and not have more than a couple of hairs knocked off their head. Estrogen is not that critical for male hair. It is only critical in those prone to male pattern baldness because it marginally helps compensate for lack of epi-T by counteracting T and knocking down 5-AR. As a monotherapy for male pattern baldness, E2 works poorly. You have to use gobs of estrogen to make a dent unless you also use androgen inhibitors with it. I think that says everything.

I haven't looked into the role of epi-testosterone and I haven't really seen a whole lot of clinical literature about its role in hair loss, so I won't deny that what you're saying could have plausibility.

However, the reason why E2 as a monotherapy doesn't work (without levels that would be the equivalent of a MTF transition dosage) is not because estrogens are not part of the problem. It's purely due to reaction kinetics. Here's an explanation I wrote in another thread about this exact issue:

If he supplements with topical estrogen on his scalp, that would make up for the missing level of testosterone to estrogen conversion. Why not let him treat it using estrogen?

Because the only way this works is by flooding your body with enough estrogens that would cause a male to female transition. The only way estrogens given externally will ever reach your hair follicles is by sufficient osmotic pressure... The concentration of estrogens in serum have to be so high that they diffuse into the cell. And the high levels of exogenous estrogens will cause problems far worse than he already has. There is no round about way to solve this issue with pharmaceuticals.

Think about it this way... Let's say you want to make a pickle from a cucumber and you need to expose the cucumber to a strong brine.. a strong concentration of salt water, right. But let's say you're going to make this pickle in a giant pool of water rather than a jar. And you've decided your method will be to put the cucumber in the large pool and then sprinkle copious amounts of salt around the cucumber every once in awhile. It's possible that maybe a little bit of that salt ends up in the cucumber, but pretty much all of that salt will diffuse outwardly as its concentration equilibrates throughout the pool. The only way that cucumber is going to have a sufficient amount of saltwater diffuse into it is if that entire pool is overwhelmed with a high amount of salt and the osmotic pressure is sufficient to force saltwater into that cucumber. It's the same problem with using any topical drug and expecting it to work.

The hair follicle needs to produce its own estrogenic activity intracellularly and then deal with cleaning up those estrogens after they're used so they don't end up in high concentrations floating around in the blood causing problems. That's how's the body is supposed to work.

 

[whatevr]

Floyd Landis had a 11:1 t/e ratio in urine and no signs of balding. If your theory is true, this is only happening in the follicle/peripheral tissue

https://academic.oup.com/jat/article-pdf/24/2/102/2537057/24-2-102.pdf

That is largely the case. See this study:

Comparative studies on level of androgens in hair and plasma with premature male-pattern baldness - PubMed

We verified that the distribution of androgenic steroids is unlike in various regions of individual subjects. Moreover, the increased DHT/T ratio in balding plasma indirectly confirms the high activity of 5alpha-reductase type II.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Interestingly, they also found statistically significant increases of T and DHT in balding people in plasma, which is interesting, because normally they test the whole serum and the consensus in those studies was that there is no difference.

 

[czecha]

I’m regrowing some hair rn on chemheads diet
Difficult to tell what is lighting and what isn’t when it comes to density, but there are certainly new hair on my hairline. Can only recommend
It’s only been 2-3 weeks and I did cheat a couple times

 

[Finasteridegyno]

People are genetically different. While some people may have higher genetic expression of enzymes in certain areas of the body, others may be much lower in that particular enzymatic expression. So, an example of a scenario which might account for your concern is that perhaps some of those 80-90% of people have lower expression of aromatase or, perhaps, lower expression of estrogen receptors in areas that make their hypothalamus less likely to experience increased estrogenic activity due to the consequential increase in testosterone due to 5AR antagonism.

Let's look at the opposite scenario. Let's say that a person has high estrogen receptor expression and high aromatase expression in all the wrong places and little to none in the scalp. Now give them a 5AR antagonist. In the scalp, 5AR is bound and there is a local increase in testosterone and a modest increase in its metabolism to estrogens via aromatase. In other areas of the body (but, most importantly, the hypothalamus), there is a much higher increase in metabolism to estrogens relative to the scalp. So, what does this mean? The modest increase in estrogenic activity in the scalp is much lower than the increase in estrogenic activity in other tissues and the hypothalamus. Because of this, hypothalamic downregulation of steroid synthesis will occur well before you are able to experience significant benefits to hair growth and hypothalamic downregulation of steroid synthesis will result in even lower level of estrogenic activity in the scalp that if that person had never take a 5AR antagonist. And this is why some people may possibly experience shedding that simply just gets worse rather than improving.

This is also the reason why some people experience gynecomastia quite easily while others don't. The ones that experience it naturally likely have high aromatase expression and high estrogen receptor expression in breast tissue, but low estrogen receptor and/or low aromatase expression in the other areas of the body (which leads to lower overall estrogens in serum) and lower expression in the hypothalamus. So, the beast tissue gets tons of estrogenic activity, but the hypothalamus is "happy" with its level of estrogenic activity and doesn't intervene to lower steroid synthesis to reduce estrogenic activity.

In my own body, for example, I likely have quite low aromatase expression and/or estrogen receptor expression in breast tissue because even with a supraphysiological concentration of testosterone injected exogenously, I do not experience estrogenic side effects in breast tissue and even if I did, my hypothalamus has sufficient estrogen receptor expression and aromatase expression that it will cut steroid synthesis when approaching estrogenic activity too high for the satisfaction of the hypothalamic feedback mechanism.

So, the explanation is that everyone has a uniquely different genetic expression of all types of enzymes in various tissues and, because of this, can each react much differently to different types of drugs that target these enzymes.

Man, what I have to do to save my hair from dht if I can’t take finasteride because I’ m a fukcing b**ch with high expression of aromatase on breast tissue and low serum estradiol levels that lead to gyno ??? I hate my fuckin stupid and wrong genetic

 

[Norwoody]

I’m regrowing some hair rn on chemheads diet
Difficult to tell what is lighting and what isn’t when it comes to density, but there are certainly new hair on my hairline. Can only recommend
It’s only been 2-3 weeks and I did cheat a couple times

Describe the diet

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Describe the diet

Sigh. Show us the pics first....

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I haven't looked into the role of epi-testosterone and I haven't really seen a whole lot of clinical literature about its role in hair loss, so I won't deny that what you're saying could have plausibility.

However, the reason why E2 as a monotherapy doesn't work (without levels that would be the equivalent of a MTF transition dosage) is not because estrogens are not part of the problem. It's purely due to reaction kinetics. Here's an explanation I wrote in another thread about this exact issue:

This is interesting although not sure about the pickles.... Just how big are these pickles anyway? <winks>

 

[czecha]

Describe the diet

What ch is describing but it’s stagnating now. 6 terminal hair in hairline. Some that are longer vellus, like on the brink to getting terminal
But no difference for a while. Haven’t been the cleanest though

 

[ChemHead]

This is interesting although not sure about the pickles.... Just how big are these pickles anyway? <winks>

lmao, sometimes my analogies could be better I guess.

 

[JonnyPickering]

I ran Anavar on it's own. Most of the bro scientists out there say its pointless but I definitely seen improvement, shed fat super quick and get hella strong. Best part was that it grew my hair back haha!

Very much the opposite of pointless this is my before & after of a 8 week course of just anavar. People really don’t know what they are on about. Tbf though my hair has got worse since I took it.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

lmao, sometimes my analogies could be better I guess.

I tend to agree with you about the need to essentially flood the system with estrogen. That's been the approach of @bridgeburn and mine. The hope was that topical estradiol might be kept localized to the scalp but I am afraid that any amount able to regrow hair is likely to cause breast growth and feminization in general although usually not to the extent that an XX has but there are no guarantees but breast growth does tend to be paltry in MtF's.