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+ 5g MSM. This is vital as well
Oral Steroid Made My Hair Grow Back Thicker!
- Thread starter Davy Weir
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+ 5g MSM. This is vital as well
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All the science is exploring anti androgens and I think they should be exploring how to turn the potassium channel mechanism back on in hair or upregulate. Cause it’s clear that lack of nutrient is what makes our hair weak and minoxidil opens the gates problem is it doesn’t do it permanently
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Yes, for many MSM doesn't work for miniaturized hair because it can't pass through the chocked follicle I assume. When you add minoxidil to the mix, well... you see the results
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Dude that’s amazing. Imagine if you were on finasteride. You would be paying an arm and a leg for haircuts yearly
I am banking on dexamethasone right now
It’s gets here Monday. And I believe it will do what minoxidil will do but I am not sure if it will do it permanently.
https://academic.oup.com/mend/article/5/12/1903/2714361
So, the mystery hormone that I'm looking for is actually not a hormone that attacks the hair follicle. What I'm looking for is a hormone that does the opposite... causes hair to become thicker, darker, and to stay in your head. It's my strong belief that finasteride works not by decreasing something that attacks the hair follicle (DHT), but by increasing some other hormone that is normally 5-alpha reduced. The reason I believe this is because finasteride only works well for me for a short period of time... Basically while it has caused an increase in this "mystery" hormone.
Now, during this entire time and after, DHT is pretty low. So, I know for certain that a lack of DHT isn't the reason the hair becomes thicker, but rather the presence of some other "mystery" steroid that was increased by the inhibition of 5AR. If it were not so, my hair would stay thick and dark on finasteride indefinitely. Instead, what happens is that this mystery hormone, along with a bunch of other hormones that have also increased in concentration due to finasteride, cause an HPTA shutdown or crash. This results in the thinning, dryness, and shedding that comes afterward (because that hormone responsible for the health and proper function of the hair is no longer being produced in the higher concentration it was).
In fact, this is also what causes your shedding when you were coming off cycle and also from various other things that influence steroid and hormone regulation. It's also interesting to me that masteron itself didn't cause you to lose hair.. Which makes total sense to me. I don't actually believe that androgens or binding of the androgen receptors cause hair loss. What I do believe is that we're exploiting something else that is happening by inhibiting 5AR.
Another reason I strongly believe this is because the manner in which I take finasteride matters. If I take finasteride the way most people take it (1mg daily) the concentration of this mystery hormone doesn't really have a chance to get really high. By taking much higher doses (5-10mg daily), however, the mystery hormone increases sooner and higher in concentration.. Before the HPTA shutdown has a chance to occur. You're basically causing such a quick and drastic change that your brain doesn't have a chance to cause an HPTA shutdown quickly enough... And during this little window in time is where all the magic with finasteride occurs.
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Let me know how dexamethasone works out. I believe dexamethasone is pretty potent at increasing aromatase expression, so it would be interesting to see what happens.
I would probably try oral minoxidil, but too much minoxidil gives me insomnia and rapid heartbeat while I try to sleep.
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Oh I def will!
If minoxidil had no dangers I’d be popping them like crazy myself. But I don’t want my heart to go out
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Interesting. Keen to know if it works. I'd make the switch.
https://www.hairestorationetwork.com/topic/21976-any-experience-with-oral-minoxidil/#post2239564
Here is an interesting thread on oral min. Dr Pathomvanich ( a very esteemed surgeon ) has presribed it to his patients for years without many complications. He himself has taken 5mg a day for a decade.
It caused thickening of the hairshaft (I'm talking like double the thickness... Really significant), darkening of the hair, and induction of new hair growth (I got tons of new vellus hairs in my hairline). And keep in mind, all of this occurred in a very short period of time. It took maybe 3 weeks for the 5AR inhibition to stabilize and right around the third week, for maybe 3-5 days, my hair would just explode in thickness, darkness, etc. Whatever was increased created the perfect ideal environment in my skin and hair follicles for growth and health of the follicles. Afterwards, the effects would taper off and my hair would become dry, thin, and begin falling out again. Then the only way to make it happen again would be to stop finasteride for a few months, let my HPTA recover, and then repeat.
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Wtf for a decade. Is he still Alive?
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Very much so. And he's pretty old as well
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The hpta shutdown thing you talk about scares me. It’s been 3 months and 2 weeks on fine and my hairloss has been halted for a month. Like I barely shed ever. Doing 1mg daily.
Also chem head
Thoughts on this
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9589555/
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Pretty much everything in that study reflects my experience with finasteride. It causes a sharp decrease in FSH and LH and one thing that's also important to note... And I believe this goes unnoticed when doctors look at lab work.. Is that people become androgen deficient while taking finasteride.
"At month 3, the dihydrotestosterone level decreased by 60%, while the testosterone level increased by 15%"
Testosterone increases 15% in concentration, so doctors may think that a man shouldn't be androgen deficient. What they fail to realize is that these concentrations are supposed to be dynamic and not static. What I mean by this is that in a person who isn't taking finasteride, the concentration of testosterone is at the level it is because it is being dynamically created and then metabolized by 5AR to DHT at a certain rate. Try not to imagine testosterone and DHT as two different things, but rather see both of them as part of the general supply of "steroid". Perhaps see it like this: all steroids represent the water in a flowing river. When the river branches off into other rivers and perhaps other smaller rivines, those represent the different types of steroids. By taking finasteride, you're essentially blocking the flow of the river from branching into another river or rivine. The level of the main river rises as a result of this (testosterone is increasing). But now imagine you have a guy that regulates the level of that main river and he sees that it's too high and that it could cause damage to things downstream. So, he shuts down the flow a little bit. The level still appears higher than it would normally be, but the total flow rate of that river has been significantly decreased because it lost an entire branch that it normally flows into.
This is exactly what's happening in finasteride users. To the untrained eye, lab work may seem to indicate that you testosterone levels are high and that you shouldn't be androgen deficient, but in reality, the flow of your steroid has actually stagnated... You're getting less metabolic throughput of steroid. That's why guys end up feeling like death from finasteride.
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What’s interesting is that study was on 5mg doses. Have your tried 1mg. Cause I heard at that dosage from other studies LH doesn’t change much
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See that Hpta shutdown is accurate but I don’t think it applies to people who are on the lower spectrum of test levels. To me I’ve always been kinda low very hard for me to gain muscle. I really hope I don’t get shutdown
Now I agree with you on other things having a play with hairloss. But what do you make of the studies that showed dht directly affected follicles negatively. Or the buildup of DHT in balding scalp?
I have tried 1mg doses.. It doesn't work the same way. And it's because the goal is to shock the system and increase the concentration of that mystery steroid before the body shuts down steroid production. But when I was younger and first tried finasteride at 1mg, I would say that it probably worked just as well as the 5 mg did when I was using it.
Finasteride is dangerous really. It does exactly what it's supposed to do, so it's not like it's evil or anything. The problem is that it's just like dropping a nuclear weapon on a city to kill one person. I'd say that if hairloss were really due to a lack of estrogens because all the substrate (testosterone and androstenedione) is 5 alpha reduced much more than its aromatized, then the only real cure will be genetic alteration to eliminate 5AR expression in the skin and hair.
There is a lot of regulation and constant feedback loop tuning that has to occur to get your body back to normal after taking finasteride. You lose both 5AR and aromatase expression from taking finasteride and the only way they go back to normal is through a slow process of 5AR expression increasing, then aromatase increasing, then crash from estrogen increase from the aromatase increase. Then more 5AR increase... And it just slowly keeps doing this until both 5AR and aromatase are at optimal levels.
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I believe that there is definitely merit to it. However, I know for sure that eliminating DHT doesn't make my hair optimal or cause it to grow or look thick and healthy. I think the reality is that the presence of 5AR in the skin and hair simultaneously causes the presence of something that's not really good for the hair (DHT) and the lack of presence of something that is required for healthy growing hair (not sure what that is, but it very well could be an estrogen). So, DHT by itself isn't the answer. It's both decreasing DHT locally in the scalp and simultaneously increasing some other hormone. You need both to be successful.
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I so agree with you. We need to figure this out you and me. Lol
Am I right to say that when 5-ar goes down. aromatase increases
It doesn't increase. It's actually the same for awhile, but it will decrease if the lack of DHT in the body causes excessive estrogenism. This is why I believe FSH decreases when taking finasteride. I believe that FSH plays a role in increasing aromatase expression and the body will attempt to lower aromatase expression when there's an excess of serum estrogens.
What does happen, though is that the androgens that would normally be 5 alpha reduced are now available to be aromatized instead. Androgens have a higher affinity for 5AR than for aromatase. So, a match between one 5AR protein and one aromatase protein favors the androgen binding 5AR.. The equilibrium favors production of DHT over estrogens. If it were not so, the body would have no real way of dealing with the dangerous state of excessive estrogenism.