Oral Steroid Made My Hair Grow Back Thicker!

[EndlessPossibilities]

It doesn't increase. It's actually the same for awhile, but it will decrease if the lack of DHT in the body causes excessive estrogenism. This is why I believe FSH decreases when taking finasteride. I believe that FSH plays a role in increasing aromatase expression and the body will attempt to lower aromatase expression when there's an excess of serum estrogens.

What does happen, though is that the androgens that would normally be 5 alpha reduced are now available to be aromatized instead. Androgens have a higher affinity for 5AR than for aromatase. So, a match between one 5AR protein and one aromatase protein favors the androgen binding 5AR.. The equilibrium favors production of DHT over estrogens. If it were not so, the body would have no real way of dealing with the dangerous state of excessive estrogenism.

Read what’s highlighted in the photo


Finesteride upregulate aromatase expression in hair follicles but not in human genitalia

So here’s what I am thinking.

 

[ChemHead]

Read what’s highlighted in the photo


Finesteride upregulate aromatase expression in hair follicles but not in human genitalia

So here’s what I am thinking.

So, I actually have that study saved along with many others, but since you pointed it out, I decided to read the study cited in regard to finasteride increasing aromatase expression.

Now, what I've deduced from that study (https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/82050951.pdf) is that, in vitro, finasteride can cause an increase in aromatase expression. They also showed that 17b-estradiol and progesterone increased aromatase expression. I am willing to bet that the increase in aromatase expression from finasteride is actually an indirect result of an increase in the production of 17b-estradiol. Progesterone acts as an antagonist of estrogenic activity, so it would make sense that aromatase expression would increase in order to balance that antagonistic effect.

So, with that being said, we have to separate the effects of finasteride with regard to in vivo and in vitro studies. I fully agree that finasteride, in vitro, will cause an increase in aromatase expression. However, it's much more complicated in the body because finasteride will be interfering with the body's steroid control loops and feedback mechanisms. So, in the body, finasteride will ultimately decrease aromatase expression due to the binding of estrogens in the hypothalamus and subsequent downregulation of steroid production and aromatase expression.

If we could localize the effects of finasteride to only the skin and hair, it would be a fountain of youth drug... it would be a miracle drug. Unfortunately, finasteride is not selective for certain tissues or specific parts of the body and it significantly affects HPTA regulation of steroid production and metabolism.

I think the most important thing that was in the study that you screenshoted was actually the hypothetical diagram which showed that androgen receptor activation caused an upregulation in aromatase expression and that binding of ERb caused a downregulation of the AR.. kind of an odd catch 22 feedback loop.

I'm certain that if there existed a 5AR inhibitor that only works in the skin and hair follicle, that would be essentially a cure. Now, for women... they have the same issue, but in kind of a different way. They have the hair thinning aspect (which is caused by lack of adequate aromatase expression and estrogen receptor activation), whereas men have two different issues going on: they have both a lack of aromatase expression and estrogen receptor activation AND they have excessive 5AR expression causing the binding of DHT to the AR, which encodes specific genes that cause the shedding of hair that testosterone DOES NOT encode (in other words, testosterone does not cause hair loss... at all).

 

[ChemHead]

I will also add that the diagram I'm talking about perfectly reflects the fact that DHT will actually increase aromatase expression by binding the androgen receptor. So, I think, in theory, if you had very high 5AR expression in the brain and possibly other internal organs and sexual tissue, but you had no 5AR expression in the skin or hair follicles, you would have very high aromatase expression and estrogen receptor activation within the hair follicle and your hair would be very thick.

Really, all guys need to be pretty much done with this disorder is a 5AR inhibitor that only works in the skin and hair.

 

[ChemHead]

Here's that diagram...

 

[itsjustsimon]

No sh*t that happens. You just shut down your testesterone production.

Running anavar only is just stupid idea and dangerous and in no form a long term solution.

 

[ChemHead]

No sh*t that happens. You just shut down your testesterone production.

Running anavar only is just stupid idea and dangerous and in no form a long term solution.

I think you've missed most of this thread... But anyway, the reason Anavar worked for the guy that started this thread to begin with is because it displaced DHT from binding the androgen receptor without causing the body to downregulate aromatase. It has nothing to do with shutting down testosterone production. Testosterone doesn't cause hairloss. I've been shut down as bad as anyone else who's taken AAS while simultaneously being on finasteride and it didn't help my hair at all.. It made it worse

 

[ChemHead]

But, I agree.. Anavar isn't a long term solution at all. Understanding it's effects on the OP, however, is invaluable to understanding the pathology of hair loss.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

But, I agree.. Anavar isn't a long term solution at all. Understanding it's effects on the OP, however, is invaluable to understanding the pathology of hair loss.

What if it’s actually not the estrogen increase from finasteride that is beneficial rather the testosterone increase? There was a study where they injected testosterone in the scalps of women and they regrew hair.

I’ve read research that the arrector pilli muscle is a huge component of reversing minituriazation. Now we now muscle development needs androgens. But dht is not active in muscle and does not bolster its size. But testosterone is active in muscle.

And better yet there is a study that says electricity stimulates hair to grow and thicken.

I just got a tens unit. This is super dangerous but I have been applying very subtle currents to my temples I mean so subtle u can barely feel it to stimulate muscle.

This could also explain why steroid cycles actually help hair but once our androgen levels die down we lose hair or Hpta shutdown occurs. I mean a forum on raypeat kept trying to blame hairloss on estrogen and that dht is good.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3380548/


So to recap. Testosterone increase is good. Conversion to dht is not anabolic for hair on scalp! Higher testosterone levels in scalp need aromatase in which it is converted to some unknown helpful metabolite.


Testosterone increase in body hair leads to dht which is needed for body hair.

So to recap for the scalp we need more testosterone and more aromatase.

I think I am missing something but I bet money that test is actually super good for hair I mean people say zinc and vitamin d help. All known to increase testosterone.

Testosterone increases aromatase expression. Not dht. Dht does not aromatize.

Dutasteride which many people have reported destroyed their hairline probabl lowered their test levels too.


When my natural test levels got low that’s when I noticed the most amount of hairloss.

And natural test levels are treated much differently than injected test.

 

[ChemHead]

What if it’s actually not the estrogen increase from finasteride that is beneficial rather the testosterone increase? There was a study where they injected testosterone in the scalps of women and they regrew hair.

I’ve read research that the arrector pilli muscle is a huge component of reversing minituriazation. Now we now muscle development needs androgens. But dht is not active in muscle and does not bolster its size. But testosterone is active in muscle.

And better yet there is a study that says electricity stimulates hair to grow and thicken.

I just got a tens unit. This is super dangerous but I have been applying very subtle currents to my temples I mean so subtle u can barely feel it to stimulate muscle.

This could also explain why steroid cycles actually help hair but once our androgen levels die down we lose hair. I mean a forum on raypeat kept trying to blame hairloss on estrogen and that dht is good.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3380548/

I've injected pretty high amounts of testosterone and also had lab work to show high serum levels of free testosterone. Testosterone doesn't help hair, but it doesn't hurt either. Trust me.. These are all questions I've had in the past and I've experimented to test them.

The reason women who had hair regrow from testosterone injections in the scalp is simply because they have generally high levels of aromatase and the testosterone is aromatized within their hair follicles. I would be willing to bet that those women experienced increase in hair growth and probably an increase in oil secretion from the skin as well.

One of the things that people lack in understanding that I think holds us back in terms of research on hair loss is that you can't determine what is good or what is bad for hair by measuring serum hormones and trying to correlate those numbers with what's going on inside the miniature organ that is the hair follicle.

Is estrogen good or bad for hair? Yes. It is both simultaneously good and bad. High serum estrogens are bad for your hair because they cause the body's regulatory mechanisms to lower individual tissues' aromatase expression. Having high serum estrogens ultimately causes the concentration of estrogens within the scalp to be low. You want the follicle to create the estrogens like it is intended to do and there will be a much higher concentration within the follicle.

Is DHT good or bad for hair? Yes. It is also simultaneously good and bad. Higher serum levels of DHT (and especially in the brain) are good for hair because they cause the bodies' tissues to upregulate aromatase expression. High levels of DHT that is created within the follicle by 5AR is bad for hair. And it's bad for two reasons.. It's bad because DHT binding the androgen receptor causes it to express a gene that signals the hair follicle to shed AND the 5AR enzyme itself takes away aromatizable substrate (aka testosterone and androstenedione) which would otherwise be aromatized to some form of estrogen if there were no presence of 5AR.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I've injected pretty high amounts of testosterone and also had lab work to show high serum levels of free testosterone. Testosterone doesn't help hair, but it doesn't hurt either. Trust me.. These are all questions I've had in the past and I've experimented to test them.

The reason women who had hair regrow from testosterone injections in the scalp is simply because they have generally high levels of aromatase and the testosterone is aromatized within their hair follicles. I would be willing to bet that those women experienced increase in hair growth and probably an increase in oil secretion from the skin as well.

One of the things that people lack in understanding that I think holds us back in terms of research on hair loss is that you can't determine what is good or what is bad for hair by measuring serum hormones and trying to correlate those numbers with what's going on inside the miniature organ that is the hair follicle.

Is estrogen good or bad for hair? Yes. It is both simultaneously good and bad. High serum estrogens are bad for your hair because they cause the body's regulatory mechanisms to lower individual tissues' aromatase expression. Having high serum estrogens ultimately causes the concentration of estrogens within the scalp to be low. You want the follicle to create the estrogens like it is intended to do and there will be a much higher concentration within the follicle.

Is DHT good or bad for hair? Yes. It is also simultaneously good and bad. Higher serum levels of DHT (and especially in the brain) are good for hair because they cause the bodies' tissues to upregulate aromatase expression. High levels of DHT that is created within the follicle by 5AR is bad for hair. And it's bad for two reasons.. It's bad because DHT binding the androgen receptor causes it to express a gene that signals the hair follicle to shed AND the 5AR enzyme itself takes away aromatizable substrate (aka testosterone and androstenedione) which would otherwise be aromatized to some form of estrogen if there were no presence of 5AR.

You said it perfectly. Like absolutely perfect.
Like I think this is truly it.


3.5 months on finasteride. Slower body hair. Hairloss seems to have stopped. No estrogenic sides. Although I will say my dick and balls have less feeling but not necessarily too little. Because frankly I always felt like I was a horn dog. Like a ridiculous Horndog. I can Masturbate once a day. Even twice. It take a a lot more to get me hard which I think is how I should’ve been. The level where I was at felt like it was ruining my life.

I am so excited to try the dexamethasone tmrw. 1% dexa. Topical

 

[ChemHead]

So to recap for the scalp we need more testosterone and more aromatase.

I think I am missing something but I bet money that test is actually super good for hair I mean people say zinc and vitamin d help. All known to increase testosterone.

Yes. We definitely want more testosterone and higher local aromatase in the scalp and skin for men. Serum testosterone (and androstenedione) is our supply for estrogens in tissues via aromatization.

Testosterone increases aromatase expression. Not dht. Dht does not aromatize.

Both Testosterone and DHT increase aromatase expression. This phenomenon is not dependent on whether DHT is aromatizable. It's dependent on the binding of the androgen receptor. In fact, DHT will increase aromatase expression more than testosterone. The problem is that DHT itself signals the hair follicle to shed and the enzyme that created the DHT in the first place takes away from the supply of testosterone (or androstenedione) that can be aromatized to an estrogen.

Dutasteride which many people have reported destroyed their hairline probabl lowered their test levels too.


When my natural test levels got low that’s when I noticed the most amount of hairloss.

And natural test levels are treated much differently than injected test.

Any steroid that is exogenously supplied is going to negatively affect enzyme expression in all types of tissues throughout the body due to it's effects on the HPTA.

The goal is this: The hair follicle must create it's own supply of estrogens through aromatase and it cannot get this supply from serum estrogens. 5AR interferes with this process by taking away testosterone (and androstenedione) supply and, at the same time, its product (DHT) unfortunately also happens to signal the hair to shed. The presence of 5AR in the scalp and skin screws you from two different directions.

 

[ChemHead]

You said it perfectly. Like absolutely perfect.
Like I think this is truly it.


3.5 months on finasteride. Slower body hair. Hairloss seems to have stopped. No estrogenic sides. Although I will say my dick and balls have less feeling but not necessarily too little. Because frankly I always felt like I was a horn dog. Like a ridiculous Horndog. I can Masturbate once a day. Even twice. It take a a lot more to get me hard which I think is how I should’ve been. The level where I was at felt like it was ruining my life.

I am so excited to try the dexamethasone tmrw. 1% dexa. Topical

I'm pretty interested to see how dexamethasone works for you. I considered getting dexamethasone to try, but I decided to get prostaglandin E2 instead because it's more potent at increasing aromatase expression. It definitely made my hair thicker, but it was less significant than finasteride.

This makes sense though.. we still have to take care of the 5AR problem. Getting rid of 5AR in the skin and hair follicle takes care of both problems. It takes care of the lack of enough estrogens being created within the follicle and the synthesis of DHT within the follicle simultaneously.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I'm pretty interested to see how dexamethasone works for you. I considered getting dexamethasone to try, but I decided to get prostaglandin E2 instead because it's more potent at increasing aromatase expression. It definitely made my hair thicker, but it was less significant than finasteride.

This makes sense though.. we still have to take care of the 5AR problem. Getting rid of 5AR in the skin and hair follicle takes care of both problems. It takes care of the lack of enough estrogens being created within the follicle and the synthesis of DHT within the follicle simultaneously.

Def I think being on 1mg finasteride a day and using dexa May have some serious benefits. We shall see

Anything you know that increases testosterone besides zinc. I need to increase my test levels through normal supplements ?

 

[ChemHead]

Also, if these things work for anyone... dexamethasone, prostaglandin E2, ricinoleic acid from castor oil, and anything that upregulates aromatase expression... they should work pretty much overnight or within a couple days. They should work very quickly and their effects should also fade quickly if a daily routine is not maintained. They shouldn't take weeks or months. If it doesn't work in the first few days, it's probably not going to work at all. I've used both ricinoleic acid and prostaglandin E2 and they both work pretty much overnight at increasing thickness of the hair.

 

[ChemHead]

Def I think being on 1mg finasteride a day and using dexa May have some serious benefits. We shall see

Anything you know that increases testosterone besides zinc. I need to increase my test levels through normal supplements ?

You can take things like maca root or longjack extract.. or both.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

Also, if these things work for anyone... dexamethasone, prostaglandin E2, ricinoleic acid from castor oil, and anything that upregulates aromatase expression... they should work pretty much overnight or within a couple days. They should work very quickly and their effects should also fade quickly if a daily routine is not maintained. They shouldn't take weeks or months. If it doesn't work in the first few days, it's probably not going to work at all. I've used both ricinoleic acid and prostaglandin E2 and they both work pretty much overnight at increasing thickness of the hair.

Ricinleic acid. You mean castle oil? I have applied it topically and it only seems to have caused scalp acne

 

[ChemHead]

Ricinleic acid. You mean castle oil? I have applied it topically and it only seems to have caused scalp acne

Yes, ricinoleic acid comes from castor oil. Some people use castor oil, but I put aqueous NaOH in my castor oil to hydrolyze the triglycerides in castor oil. This frees the ricinoleic acid (which is what causes the increase in aromatase by binding the prostanoid receptors E1-E4... whichever of them it actually binds). If you just use the castor oil on it's own you're relying on your body to hydrolyze the triglycerides. I remove that step to make it easier to penetrate the scalp since it's a smaller molecule... and my body doesn't have to do any work once it's in there. It's already ricinoleic acid.

 

[Timii]

I' ve read all of the posts in this thread. Very interesting theories. But I have a question: What is the role of inflammation? @ChemHead @EndlessPossibilities

 

[ChemHead]

I' ve read all of the posts in this thread. Very interesting theories. But I have a question: What is the role of inflammation? @ChemHead @EndlessPossibilities

It certainly plays a role. Everyone has inflammation, though. The difference is that people who don't experience hair loss or skin problems have more favorable genetic enzymatic expression that creates an environment in the skin and hair follicles that is plentiful with steroids that are anti-inflammatory. Estrogens that are created by enzymatic metabolism intracellularly in the skin and the hair follicles cause a cascade of genes to be expressed which cause the release of growth factors and anti-inflammatory chemicals.

Even the healthiest of people experience daily inflammation in the skin and hair follicles. The difference is that those with good looking, healthy hair and skin are more equipped to deal with that inflammation. So, attacking this problem from an anti-inflammatory perspective and attacking it from a "steroid" perspective are actually one in the same. The inflammation goes away if you can provide the skin and hair follicles with the proper environment for normal hair growth.

 

[Murkey Thumb]

I'm pretty interested to see how dexamethasone works for you. I considered getting dexamethasone to try, but I decided to get prostaglandin E2 instead because it's more potent at increasing aromatase expression. It definitely made my hair thicker, but it was less significant than finasteride.

This makes sense though.. we still have to take care of the 5AR problem. Getting rid of 5AR in the skin and hair follicle takes care of both problems. It takes care of the lack of enough estrogens being created within the follicle and the synthesis of DHT within the follicle simultaneously.

Have you thought of trying something like Alfatradiol to treat the 5AR problem?