Oral Steroid Made My Hair Grow Back Thicker!

[EndlessPossibilities]

The only way to avoid losing effectiveness is to cycle finasteride.. Give yourself breaks where you let you 5AR expression return to complete normal and start again. Long term, it's just a really shitty way to deal with hair loss because it helps with DHT while simultaneously ruining your body's ability to provide what hair needs to be healthy. For healthy functioning hair follicles, you need high aromatase expression within the follicle and a good supply of testosterone. Finasteride will ruin both of those eventually.

So like a week off? I just don’t want to lose my gains while I am off of it. Otherwise what’s the point ya know ?

There must be another way of cycling off for a week doesn’t work. How can some people go on for 15 years and it still be super effective.

 

[Capone]

For me personally, whenever I use a 5ar blocker my skin looks aged. Deeper, more pronounced lines. Could be the lack of DHT. If estrogen is good for skin then why do men’s faces and bodies start to age as it rises?

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

For me personally, whenever I use a 5ar blocker my skin looks aged. Deeper, more pronounced lines. Could be the lack of DHT. If estrogen is good for skin then why do men’s faces and bodies start to age as it rises?

There is good and bad estrogen receptors. That’s why. ERalpha vs ERbeta. Have different expressions

 

[Capone]

There is good and bad estrogen receptors. That’s why. ERalpha vs ERbeta. Have different expressions

Ok, because I’m using an Estriol cream on my scalp at the minute and it doesn’t happen, in fact my skin looks a bit smoother after using the dermapen. Which tells me it’s too weak for my hair and probably won’t do much, in terms of results.

 

[Mr. Grey]

Ok, because I’m using an Estriol cream on my scalp at the minute and it doesn’t happen, in fact my skin looks a bit smoother after using the dermapen. Which tells me it’s too weak for my hair and probably won’t do much, in terms of results.

I think you should use estradiol gel, it can be better. I just start use Estrogel with topical spironolactone. I Use it during one week, but no changes yet, I think it early for some results. Also I use finasteride 0.6 and topical Duta. Without minoxidil.

 

[ChemHead]

So like a week off? I just don’t want to lose my gains while I am off of it. Otherwise what’s the point ya know ?

There must be another way of cycling off for a week doesn’t work. How can some people go on for 15 years and it still be super effective.

For me, it always took 2-3 months to regain normal 5AR function. This period of time grew the more I used finasteride. It can be really dangerous for a lot of people because it permanently denatures the 5AR enzyme.. and not only that, but DHT is actually part of the feedback loop that increases 5AR expression. Higher DHT will actually encourage higher 5AR expression. So, when the body has no 5AR expression and no DHT, getting 5AR expression to increase can take awhile. It's almost like a chicken vs egg scenario. This is what causes the post finasteride syndrome that so many people experience.

Now, if you could constrain finasteride's activity to ONLY where it's needed (in the skin and within the hair follicle), then this would be very useful because you could semi-permanently eliminate 5AR expression in those areas without affecting you're entire body and causing a cascade of hypothalamic regulatory issues. But this would have to work without error. This is why low dose topical finasteride doesn't work. Finasteride is extremely potent and effective at what it does and it has no way of reaching the target we would like for it to reach without first entering the blood. It has to be in the blood to enter intracellularly. Because of this nature (the fact that whatever you're trying to deliver to the cell must first enter the blood to get there), finasteride is a poor drug to solve this problem because the tiniest amounts (0.02 mg and greater) can cause significant serum suppression of DHT. If finasteride had a serum half life of maybe 30 seconds to 2 minutes, you might be able to get away with using a drug like that topically.

Some people are able to use finasteride effectively because they express much less 5AR in the brain, sexual tissues, and breast tissue. Really, if you have a problem with 5AR expression in the skin and hair and nowhere else, then finasteride shouldn't affect steroid production or aromatase expression to any significant degree.

 

[ChemHead]

For me personally, whenever I use a 5ar blocker my skin looks aged. Deeper, more pronounced lines. Could be the lack of DHT. If estrogen is good for skin then why do men’s faces and bodies start to age as it rises?

This is due to the changes in enzyme expression and steroid production caused by 5AR antagonists like finasteride. Because the effects are not localized, it causes a downregulation of aromatase along with 5AR. I don't recommend you do this at all (especially since I've already done it countless times), but the way one could prove this would be to take high dose finasteride (5-10 mg daily) for a few weeks. What will happen is that your 5AR will be bound faster than your body will be able to react to the changes and your aromatase expression will still be high like it would be if you were still producing normal amounts of DHT. This will leave your hair and skin with high concentrations of both testosterone (and/or androstenedione) and estrogens that result from the aromatization thereof.

To answer your question about why men's skin starts to age as they age.. this is because serum estrogens increase with age causing a decrease in aromatase expression. So, what you end up with when you have high estrogen concentration in the blood is that the body will adjust to lower this... and the only way it can do this is to globally decrease aromatase expression. Thus, you end up with a more acceptable serum concentration of estrogens (or the best your body can do with its adjustment) and no longer a high enough aromatase expression in the skin to produce enough estrogens locally for healthy, supple skin. There can be a multitude of reasons for this, but I'm not really sure why it happens to begin with. For some people, being overweight could cause this (excess fatty tissue will aromatize androgens and increase serum estrogen concentration), but I think a more likely explanation is that an enzyme that deactivates estradiol and estrone may be missing or insufficient. So, basically, when the body is finished using the estrogen locally, it never gets metabolized and eliminated from the body. This stagnates estrogen synthesis... you end up with a bunch of junk estrogens in serum that should be eliminated, but can't be for some reason. So, the body adjusts to lower estrogen synthesis in all tissues to manage the serum estrogens. I actually feel like this is likely the genesis of hair loss. It's what causes 5AR expression to increase and aromatase to lower... in order to offset the effects of excessive serum estrogens.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

This is due to the changes in enzyme expression and steroid production caused by 5AR antagonists like finasteride. Because the effects are not localized, it causes a downregulation of aromatase along with 5AR. I don't recommend you do this at all (especially since I've already done it countless times), but the way one could prove this would be to take high dose finasteride (5-10 mg daily) for a few weeks. What will happen is that your 5AR will be bound faster than your body will be able to react to the changes and your aromatase expression will still be high like it would be if you were still producing normal amounts of DHT. This will leave your hair and skin with high concentrations of both testosterone (and/or androstenedione) and estrogens that result from the aromatization thereof.

To answer your question about why men's skin starts to age as they age.. this is because serum estrogens increase with age causing a decrease in aromatase expression. So, what you end up with high estrogen concentration in the blood is that the body will adjust to lower this... and the only way it can do this is to globally decrease aromatase expression. Thus, you end up with a more acceptable serum concentration of estrogens (or the best your body can do with its adjustment) and no longer a high enough aromatase expression in the skin to produce enough estrogens locally for healthy, supple skin. There can be a multitude of reasons for this, but I'm not really sure why it happens to begin with. For some people, being overweight could cause this (excess fatty tissue will aromatize androgens and increase serum estrogen concentration), but I think a more likely explanation is that an enzyme that deactivates estradiol and estrone may be missing or insufficient. So, basically, when the body is finished using the estrogen locally, it never gets metabolized and eliminated from the body. This stagnates estrogen synthesis... you end up with a bunch of junk estrogens in serum that should be eliminated, but can't be for some reason. So, the body adjusts to lower estrogen synthesis in all tissues to manage the serum estrogens. I actually feel like this is likely the genesis of hair loss. It's what causes 5AR expression to increase and aromatase to lower... in order to offset the effects of excessive serum estrogens.

Dude I think you finally cracked it !!

This explains why after steroids hair loss begins. Estrogen rises like crazy and this causes down regulation of aromatase.

 

[ChemHead]

Dude I think you finally cracked it !!

This explains why after steroids hair loss begins. Estrogen rises like crazy and this causes down regulation of aromatase.

I have to reiterate that many people have naturally low aromatase expression in the skin and hair and are much more susceptible to hair loss. Whether this is due to simply having genetically lower expression or due to a lack of enzymes that metabolize estrogens for elimination (causing lower aromatase expression), I'm not sure. There are plenty of guys out there that are able to run steroid cycles that are relatively unaffected by them regarding hair and it's because they have higher aromatase expression and lower 5AR expression. If one of them were to really pay attention to their hair and document changes while on cycle, I would not be surprised if they noticed a little decrease in the thickness of their hair... especially while using an aromatase inhibitor or a SERM.

So, there are really quite a lot of paradoxical things that are going on with hair loss and because of this, as a whole, the community of biochemists and clinical researchers working on it don't have a clear view of what causes it and we end up with drugs that will never really work. A drug that targets 5AR (unless its action is 100% local to the skin and hair follicle) will take care of DHT binding the androgen receptor, but will ultimately downregulate aromatase. A drug that targets the androgen receptor (an androgen receptor antagonist) will also take care of DHT binding the androgen receptor, but this will also down regulate aromatase expression because binding of the androgen receptor causes expression of aromatase to increase. So, what happens is that both of these types of drugs will work for a short time (some longer than others) and then the body will adjust its aromatase expression and they are no longer effective.

People wonder why they begin to shed when using finasteride or RU58841 after awhile and this is the exact reason.. it's not part of the "phases" of the drug doing its magic.. it's because aromatase has been downregulated.. and riding out the storm by continuing to take the drug is not going to improve things. It's done. Aromatase expression has been lowered and the only way to get it back up is from the appropriate androgens binding the androgen receptor (probably in the hypothalamus, but there's also evidence that binding androgen receptors locally causes an increase in aromatase expression). I believe that FSH is responsible for a systemic increase in aromatase expression, but I'm not sure how because there's really not a whole lot of clinical research on FSH. It think that if someone taking finasteride were to take FSH, their aromatase expression would increase, but I also think it wouldn't be healthy.. there's a reason why the aromatase expression was downregulated to begin with.

 

[Drextez]

I have to reiterate that many people have naturally low aromatase expression in the skin and hair and are much more susceptible to hair loss. Whether this is due to simply having genetically lower expression or due to a lack of enzymes that metabolize estrogens for elimination (causing lower aromatase expression), I'm not sure. There are plenty of guys out there that are able to run steroid cycles that are relatively unaffected by them regarding hair and it's because they have higher aromatase expression and lower 5AR expression. If one of them were to really pay attention to their hair and document changes while on cycle, I would not be surprised if they noticed a little decrease in the thickness of their hair... especially while using an aromatase inhibitor or a SERM.

So, there are really quite a lot of paradoxical things that are going on with hair loss and because of this, as a whole, the community of biochemists and clinical researchers working on it don't have a clear view of what causes it and we end up with drugs that will never really work. A drug that targets 5AR (unless its action is 100% local to the skin and hair follicle) will take care of DHT binding the androgen receptor, but will ultimately downregulate aromatase. A drug that targets the androgen receptor (an androgen receptor antagonist) will also take care of DHT binding the androgen receptor, but this will also down regulate aromatase expression because binding of the androgen receptor causes expression of aromatase to increase. So, what happens is that both of these types of drugs will work for a short time (some longer than others) and then the body will adjust its aromatase expression and they are no longer effective.

People wonder why they begin to shed when using finasteride or RU58841 after awhile and this is the exact reason.. it's not part of the "phases" of the drug doing its magic.. it's because aromatase has been downregulated.. and riding out the storm by continuing to take the drug is not going to improve things. It's done. Aromatase expression has been lowered and the only way to get it back up is from the appropriate androgens binding the androgen receptor (probably in the hypothalamus, but there's also evidence that binding androgen receptors locally causes an increase in aromatase expression). I believe that FSH is responsible for a systemic increase in aromatase expression, but I'm not sure how because there's really not a whole lot of clinical research on FSH. It think that if someone taking finasteride were to take FSH, their aromatase expression would increase, but I also think it wouldn't be healthy.. there's a reason why the aromatase expression was downregulated to begin with.

soooooo, what do you beleive is the best bet to get our hair back?
everything goes systemic with male pattern baldness, very unfortunate because we always will be affected by using medication unless they do it locally ( which is almost impossible since pretty much anything taken orally or topically will go systemic )

they literally need to change the gene expression of the follicles or scalp environment to improve circulation or sometinhg

Some people are able to use finasteride effectively because they express much less 5AR in the brain, sexual tissues, and breast tissue. Really, if you have a problem with 5AR expression in the skin and hair and nowhere else, then finasteride shouldn't affect steroid production or aromatase expression to any significant degree.

how do we know if we dont have 5AR expression on our balls, penis, nipples, prostate, brain, etc ? That would be extremely useful so we could know if we can use finasteride 1mg every single day for lifetime without any problems.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I have to reiterate that many people have naturally low aromatase expression in the skin and hair and are much more susceptible to hair loss. Whether this is due to simply having genetically lower expression or due to a lack of enzymes that metabolize estrogens for elimination (causing lower aromatase expression), I'm not sure. There are plenty of guys out there that are able to run steroid cycles that are relatively unaffected by them regarding hair and it's because they have higher aromatase expression and lower 5AR expression. If one of them were to really pay attention to their hair and document changes while on cycle, I would not be surprised if they noticed a little decrease in the thickness of their hair... especially while using an aromatase inhibitor or a SERM.

So, there are really quite a lot of paradoxical things that are going on with hair loss and because of this, as a whole, the community of biochemists and clinical researchers working on it don't have a clear view of what causes it and we end up with drugs that will never really work. A drug that targets 5AR (unless its action is 100% local to the skin and hair follicle) will take care of DHT binding the androgen receptor, but will ultimately downregulate aromatase. A drug that targets the androgen receptor (an androgen receptor antagonist) will also take care of DHT binding the androgen receptor, but this will also down regulate aromatase expression because binding of the androgen receptor causes expression of aromatase to increase. So, what happens is that both of these types of drugs will work for a short time (some longer than others) and then the body will adjust its aromatase expression and they are no longer effective.

People wonder why they begin to shed when using finasteride or RU58841 after awhile and this is the exact reason.. it's not part of the "phases" of the drug doing its magic.. it's because aromatase has been downregulated.. and riding out the storm by continuing to take the drug is not going to improve things. It's done. Aromatase expression has been lowered and the only way to get it back up is from the appropriate androgens binding the androgen receptor (probably in the hypothalamus, but there's also evidence that binding androgen receptors locally causes an increase in aromatase expression). I believe that FSH is responsible for a systemic increase in aromatase expression, but I'm not sure how because there's really not a whole lot of clinical research on FSH. It think that if someone taking finasteride were to take FSH, their aromatase expression would increase, but I also think it wouldn't be healthy.. there's a reason why the aromatase expression was downregulated to begin with.

Idk if this is finasteride related but I started to experience constant urge to Urinate. Could be finasteride or forskolin.

Idk forskolin half life I tried 24 hours of being forskolin free. Symptoms still there so gonna try 3 days of no forskolin.

Chemhead do u think it’s fine to take finasteride every other day? Would this be detrimental to hair?

I can’t help but think maybe 5ar1 inhibition is causing the urge to Urinate brain signals being altered. I was tested for everything. Diabetes. Stds. UTIs. It’s all clear

 

[ChemHead]

soooooo, what do you beleive is the best bet to get our hair back?
everything goes systemic with male pattern baldness, very unfortunate because we always will be affected by using medication unless they do it locally ( which is almost impossible since pretty much anything taken orally or topically will go systemic )

they literally need to change the gene expression of the follicles or scalp environment to improve circulation or sometinhg





how do we know if we dont have 5AR expression on our balls, penis, nipples, prostate, brain, etc ? That would be extremely useful so we could know if we can use finasteride 1mg every single day for lifetime without any problems.

Unfortunately, the only way to know where you likely have 5AR expression is to take a 5AR inhibitor and see where you end up with side effects... unless you have access to a lab and professionals to take a tissue biopsy to test for 5AR expression.

 

[ChemHead]

Idk if this is finasteride related but I started to experience constant urge to Urinate. Could be finasteride or forskolin.

Idk forskolin half life I tried 24 hours of being forskolin free. Symptoms still there so gonna try 3 days of no forskolin.

Chemhead do u think it’s fine to take finasteride every other day? Would this be detrimental to hair?

I can’t help but think maybe 5ar1 inhibition is causing the urge to Urinate brain signals being altered. I was tested for everything. Diabetes. Stds. UTIs. It’s all clear

With the way you're taking finasteride, it's not likely to be detrimental to take it less often. When finasteride binds 5AR, it's permanent.. the enzyme is denatured and no longer able to perform its function. I believe it takes at least 30 days in a healthy person for the body to create another 5AR enzyme to replace one lost to finasteride.

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

With the way you're taking finasteride, it's not likely to be detrimental to take it less often. When finasteride binds 5AR, it's permanent.. the enzyme is denatured and no longer able to perform its function. I believe it takes at least 30 days in a healthy person for the body to create another 5AR enzyme to replace one lost to finasteride.

It’s official today I had pain in testicals and pain near *** hole lol. And the urinating symptoms went away. Then I traded back the symptoms.


Def prostate related.

The question is is finasteride down-regulating genetic expression resulting in atrophy of my sexual organs to a minor degree?

I am gonna get tested to make sure it’s not bacterial prostatitis.


Also doing every other day may not be huge of a deal but according to this graph dht goes up the next day immediately
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...de-microdosing-as-additional-treatment.98373/

 

[Capone]

I think you should use estradiol gel, it can be better. I just start use Estrogel with topical spironolactone. I Use it during one week, but no changes yet, I think it early for some results. Also I use finasteride 0.6 and topical Duta. Without minoxidil.

Where do you purchase Estrogel?

 

[Mr. Grey]

Where do you purchase Estrogel?

I bought it just in pharmacy without recipe (i’m from Russia)

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

Well finasteride def was responsible for my prostatis symptoms at least partially that’s for sure. It’s been almost 48 hours of no finasteride and my symptoms are going away. I wonder how long I can go without medication before damage really sets in.

 

[Mr. Grey]

I take finasteride for 3 weeks 0,63 mg every day And I don’t have any sides. It is strange, my libido is not decrease...

 

[EndlessPossibilities]

I take finasteride for 3 weeks 0,63 mg every day And I don’t have any sides. It is strange, my libido is not decrease...

It took me 2 months to experience sides on finasteride. So keep at it. Takes time to build up

 

[Drextez]

It took me 2 months to experience sides on finasteride. So keep at it. Takes time to build up

if finasteride isnt working for you, what do you plan on doing to keep your hair or get regrowth