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PoC CB-03-01 results.
- Thread starter Swoop
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distracted
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Disappointing : /
Breyfogle
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Looks like it's slightly better than minoxidil. I guess that's cool. This is just Proof Of Concept.
Hopefully they get better results with a smarter dosage in the next test.
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distracted
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Wonder why they used Minoxidil as benchmark as opposed to Propecia.
paleocapa89
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So if I understand it correctly at 5% dose 2times/day CB couldn't beat minoxidil in regrowth and there were some patients that noticed a decrease in terminal hair count. That is not encouraging news.
Breyfogle
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There were no adverse effects. That was the point of this study.
The next study will be for efficacy.
The fact that it did as good (actually a little better) than Minoxidil on average is just a little bonus.
I don't think that's necessarily discouraging.
The next study will be for efficacy.
The fact that it did as good (actually a little better) than Minoxidil on average is just a little bonus.
I don't think that's necessarily discouraging.
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Yeah in the "Changes from Baseline in Non-Vellus TAHC at Month 6", Minoxidil (mean 18.8) beats CB-03-01 (mean 12.7). From what I can see on my mobile phone at least..
Good point distracted, indeed they should have matched it against finasteride. Nothing to see about side effects too?
Good point distracted, indeed they should have matched it against finasteride. Nothing to see about side effects too?
paleocapa89
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What happened to this study result? This looked more promising. Maybe it is better because women were also included in the study and they are distorting the data? Or is it better because the drug was administered with iontophoresis?
"The study evaluated the efficacy of CB-03-01 in 40 men with androgenetic alopecia grade 1-4 according to the Hamilton scale, and in 30 post-menopausal women with androgenetic alopecia grade 1 according to the Ludwig scale."
source: http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx
"The study evaluated the efficacy of CB-03-01 in 40 men with androgenetic alopecia grade 1-4 according to the Hamilton scale, and in 30 post-menopausal women with androgenetic alopecia grade 1 according to the Ludwig scale."
source: http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx
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Hmm. Is it really good that minoxidil doesn't work on most people though? That means that minoxidil has a handicap basically right... If minoxidil worked on more people, minoxidil would even have better statistics... But it doesn't work on many people so it has a sort of handicap already. Yet it's still pretty much unbeatable to date by any treatment.
Here versus CB-03-01 in the non-vellus count minoxidil wins. But a way better comparison would be vs finasteride really. Really weird choice.
potato87
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Yes they have repeatedly and consistently stated 2019 in emails and posts. I also found the minoxidil comparison odd, lets hope it is released and it is up to us to try it, I certainly would!
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I think because it works through different mechanisms, any improvement is definitely a good thing. A bunch of little things that just work o.k., and through different means, is better than nothing. We need to keep adding things to our arsenal. It's unlikely we will find an atomic bomb to beat this... but the more guns we have, the better chance we have at understanding and potentially winning the war.
potato87
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I was a little hopeful but do the results not show a decrease for some?
CB MIN Vehicle
0=NO CHANGE 8 ( 34.8%) 12 ( 48.0%) 11 ( 44.0%) .
-1=SLIGHTLY DECREASED 5 ( 21.7%) 1 ( 4.0%) 8 ( 32.0%) .
-2=MODERATELY DECREASED 1 ( 4.3%) 2 ( 8.0%) 2 ( 8.0%) .
-3=GREATLY DECREASED 0 ( 0.0%) 1 ( 4.0%) 0 ( 0.0%)
CB MIN Vehicle
0=NO CHANGE 8 ( 34.8%) 12 ( 48.0%) 11 ( 44.0%) .
-1=SLIGHTLY DECREASED 5 ( 21.7%) 1 ( 4.0%) 8 ( 32.0%) .
-2=MODERATELY DECREASED 1 ( 4.3%) 2 ( 8.0%) 2 ( 8.0%) .
-3=GREATLY DECREASED 0 ( 0.0%) 1 ( 4.0%) 0 ( 0.0%)
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Yeah in the HGA basically 26% of people worsened.
My opinion on CB-03-01 (breezula) so far:
I would think that in a head to head finasteride vs CB-03-01, CB would lose in terms of results. I also think RU-58841 is pound for pound stronger and would win (as RU58841 showed pretty much the same results as finasteride from the information we have on a 6 month timeframe and we know that CB-03-01 is calculated to be as strong as CA). I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't perform better. Maybe a bit weaker or something.
That being said these compounds do cause side effects in some people. And the selling point of CB-03-01 should be that it has a excellent safety profile right.. If they get that right that would mean a whole lot to many people... So we should take that into account too.
On the other hand CB-03-01 is scheduled for release in like ~2022 apparently. The next phase 2 results are expected to be released in 2018 as you can see in the PDF. Add to that a phase 3 trial of 2-3 years and commercialization. So I guess a projected release of ~2022 is about right. That is if they make it that far obviously. And honestly that bothers me a bit. I mean year 2022 holy sh*t guys. Let's assume that we'll have CB-03-01 running for a few years in commercial status that would mean we are talking about approaching 2030 already. With all due respect a compound like CB-03-01 should actually be on the market a while ago..
I mean I saw a movie yesterday of a sophisticated robot that was performing human tasks. And I was literally thinking: "Holy sh*t dude, this technology is getting creepy and advanced as hell".
Meanwhile in the hair loss camp.... Yeah enough said I guess, you get the point.
Anyway 2018 and we'll get more data I guess!
My opinion on CB-03-01 (breezula) so far:
I would think that in a head to head finasteride vs CB-03-01, CB would lose in terms of results. I also think RU-58841 is pound for pound stronger and would win (as RU58841 showed pretty much the same results as finasteride from the information we have on a 6 month timeframe and we know that CB-03-01 is calculated to be as strong as CA). I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't perform better. Maybe a bit weaker or something.
That being said these compounds do cause side effects in some people. And the selling point of CB-03-01 should be that it has a excellent safety profile right.. If they get that right that would mean a whole lot to many people... So we should take that into account too.
On the other hand CB-03-01 is scheduled for release in like ~2022 apparently. The next phase 2 results are expected to be released in 2018 as you can see in the PDF. Add to that a phase 3 trial of 2-3 years and commercialization. So I guess a projected release of ~2022 is about right. That is if they make it that far obviously. And honestly that bothers me a bit. I mean year 2022 holy sh*t guys. Let's assume that we'll have CB-03-01 running for a few years in commercial status that would mean we are talking about approaching 2030 already. With all due respect a compound like CB-03-01 should actually be on the market a while ago..
I mean I saw a movie yesterday of a sophisticated robot that was performing human tasks. And I was literally thinking: "Holy sh*t dude, this technology is getting creepy and advanced as hell".
Meanwhile in the hair loss camp.... Yeah enough said I guess, you get the point.
Anyway 2018 and we'll get more data I guess!
some quick reflections:
- 6 months is short for an a.a. (cant remember what finasteride results are in 6 months)
- minoxidil is stronger in the short term usually, after the initial shed
- they did not measure hair caliber, and this is where i expect a competitive edge from an a.a.
- 23 patients is an irrelevant statistics; just a few entering/exiting a Telogen Effluvium and numbers change too much
- and, indeed, this was a poc with the liquid vehicle, not a clinical study.
imho we dont have more info than yesterday. except, luckily, no AEs were recorded. and it worked on a good share of patients. so far, so good.
- 6 months is short for an a.a. (cant remember what finasteride results are in 6 months)
- minoxidil is stronger in the short term usually, after the initial shed
- they did not measure hair caliber, and this is where i expect a competitive edge from an a.a.
- 23 patients is an irrelevant statistics; just a few entering/exiting a Telogen Effluvium and numbers change too much
- and, indeed, this was a poc with the liquid vehicle, not a clinical study.
imho we dont have more info than yesterday. except, luckily, no AEs were recorded. and it worked on a good share of patients. so far, so good.
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I just don't understand how it's taking them so long to release a fairly meh treatment. Another 6 years just so we can have a topical AA that's still probably going to be weaker than RU? Isn't that after Histogen and Replicel's projected dates? Those are in theory far more sophisticated, albeit we don't know if they work yet. But I'm pretty underwhelmed by this.