PoC CB-03-01 results.

[resu]

True, those worsened results might have been just the initial shed. Imagine what kind of results you could get at 12 months. No doubt it will be the default drug to be prescribed from hair transplant doctors.

 

[monoid]

It seems that this is not superior than Minoxidil. Judging by the HGA and TAHC table minoxidil is marginally superior.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I don't see why you guys are so unhappy about this.

 

[paleocapa89]

Im personally a little disappointed because it seems that there were some people who couldn't even maintain on CB and this drug will not even be available for at least 5 more years. We deserve something better already for gods sake. I really hope SM will amaze us..

 

[distracted]

I don't see why you guys are so unhappy about this.

Mostly because inflated expectations :/

 

[hilbert]

Im personally a little disappointed because it seems that there were some people who couldn't even maintain on CB and this drug will not even be available for at least 5 more years. We deserve something better already for gods sake. I really hope SM will amaze us..

yes, 6 worsened. And what if they had an effluvium?
What I miss in this slideset is the hair caliber. With such a small sample, I would not care about hair count
[*] but by calibers.
If some of the worsened patients had some effluvium but the caliber of remaining shafts has improved on average, it would be a sign of effectiveness.
[*] hair count is made by vellus hair turned into non-vellus hair, but also but a new growth after an effluvium, or a loss by the onset of an effluvium. We need very large numbers to rule out these ripples. But large numbers mean big costs, and this was a PoC. And, guess what, finasteride clinical studies always had big numbers afaik (100+ patients).

P.S. just to give an example of what a bad statistics is, look at the placebo group: 15 out of 25 patients (8 NW3, 8 NW4, 9 NW5!) maintained or improved over 6 months with just a vehicle. It's 60%... I mean, if I am in such an advanced stage of male pattern baldness and I can apply such a good vehicle and have more than 1 out of 2 chances to maintain or improve... well, just don't wait for 2022 and sell me that vehicle right away!

Also check at the Norwood distribution for the 3 groups. Slight variations in favour of minoxidil... but small numbers matter a lot in small samples, and build bad statistics.

So, again: a PoC is not made to generate statistically significant data.

 

[Follisket]

What terrifies me the most is that these companies genuinely seem to believe there won't be any superior treatments/overpowering competition within the next 6 years. So we're looking at 6 years for a treatment that, in terms of results, isn't even on par with current AAs.
Sure, safe maintenance is awesome, but exactly what will we have left to maintain 6 years from now?

Holy f, how is this possible?

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Mostly because inflated expectations :/

It works for some people and not others. It's a mediocre treatment and not a cure. That's all right.

 

[lynney45]

How come there was no mention of safety or tolerabilty? If this is going to be marketed as a safe treatment i am bemused that there was no mention of it's safety results from the study...

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Looks like it's slightly better than minoxidil. I guess that's cool. This is just Proof Of Concept.
Hopefully they get better results with a smarter dosage in the next test.

So a 39% chance of improving things, a 35% chance of no change, and a 25% chance of being worse off ... compared to a 90% chance of being worse off with no treatment.

I would pay $100/month for that.

 

[hilbert]

So a 39% chance of improving things, a 35% chance of no change, and a 25% chance of being worse off ... compared to a 90% chance of being worse off with no treatment.

I would pay $100/month for that.

David, in this study the chance of being worse with no treatment is only 40%.
Of course it's not realistic nor significant.
And so, why should all the other numbers be realistic and significant?

P.S. I'm actually paying 100$/month for my CB Still too early to say if I'm in the lucky 75% or unlucky 25%

btw, so far, after so many years of discussions about CB vehicles, I've been worried that the initial PoC results with iontophoresis could not be confirmed by a liquid vehicle... Of course the results in the new PoC are of a different league, but in PoC#1 even Cipro 1% was a miracle drug, while in real life (in an ethanol vehicle) it only helped slow a bit my male pattern baldness.
So, the good news for me is: CB in a liquid vehicle works. No need for a sticky cream or iontophoresis.

Now, what's the vehicle they used??

 

[lynney45]

The results from the latest Bimatroprost study showed that it was slightly more effective than Minoxidil.

Is it a fair statement that Bimatroprost could possibly be more effective than CB in this case?

 

[hilbert]

The results from the latest Bimatroprost study showed that it was slightly more effective than Minoxidil.

Is it a fair statement that Bimatroprost could possibly be more effective than CB in this case?

well, iirc that was a phase 2 study and this is a PoC. So imho no, if we don't want to compare apples and bananas.

 

[wilson2]

How come there was no mention of safety or tolerabilty? If this is going to be marketed as a safe treatment i am bemused that there was no mention of it's safety results from the study...

Yes this is something I don't understand either. Is there a separate report for the safety?

 

[Pavi]

Just goes to show the power of good ol' minoxidil!

 

[whatevr]

So if I'm not mistaken this is an anti-androgen. What were you all expecting, regrowth? Even cutting your balls off doesnt' give much regrowth, finasteride doesn't give much regrowth. So why would this?

If it maintains in the majority of people without sides, that is already huge. Sure, it would be better if it was out right now, but well... I guess for those who are 13-14 years old right now it will be right on the ball.

CB was hardly the most promising thing to look forward to, anyways.

 

[Dolph]

If it maintains in the majority of people without sides, that is already huge.

Agreed. Side-free maintenance is non-existent right now. I'm personally excited enough by this result to finally buy some CB. I don't think 6 months is long enough to evaluate an AA.

When mixing a vehicle, how much PG : ethanol : CB should I use?

 

[kiwipilu]

@Dolph
do you have any updates from other labs concerning prices for cb
thx

 

[distracted]

This would have been exciting if it was released in a reasonable amount of time. 5 years though? Hoping we have something better to look forward to...

- - - Updated - - -

I mean Replicel plans to be released (In Japan) three years before this...like c'mon we gotta have something better than CB by 2021

 

[whatevr]

CB's gon' be late to the party.