Published in Nature: Weekly treatment with SAMiRNA targeting the androgen receptor ameliorates androgenetic alopecia

[RagnarLothbrok]

What kind of argument is "its a manteinence drug" ?

Blocking completely the androgen receptors should cause the follicle to end his DHT jail and regrow stronger, so maybe it simply isn't potent enough at that job.

 

[Anatman]

What kind of argument is "its a manteinence drug" ?

Blocking completely the androgen receptors should cause the follicle to end his DHT jail and regrow stronger, so maybe it simply isn't potent enough at that job.

Like finasteride. And on the result Pics you see no significant regrowth but thickening. so they regrowth stronger.

 

[JohnDoe5]

What kind of argument is "its a manteinence drug" ?

Blocking completely the androgen receptors should cause the follicle to end his DHT jail and regrow stronger, so maybe it simply isn't potent enough at that job.

How can you even be sure if a maintenance drug really maintains? Even if you weren't on any drug it would take years for you to lose enough hair for the new hair loss to be evident. I think the claims that a drug maintains can't be proven with a 6 - 12 month study.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Because Finasteride doesn't really block all DHT in serum (and even less in the follicle) and thats why it doesn't regrow.

This drug pathway is on the androgen receptors binding, so if it doesn't regrow, it is not super strong at that job. Even Dutasteride shows higher regrowth with just reducing serum DHT. Common sense. But maybe this is a good entry level for better mRNA pathways in future with higher efficacy.

Nonetheless good news to have more drugs acting on different pathways, so we can upgrade to a Big4, Big5... BigCope until HMI or haircloning is a real thing.

 

[Dr sanches]

What kind of argument is "its a manteinence drug" ?

Blocking completely the androgen receptors should cause the follicle to end his DHT jail and regrow stronger, so maybe it simply isn't potent enough at that job.

Hey dumb *** this is a maintenance drug to be used in conjunction not a cure

 

[Redgate]

What kind of argument is "its a manteinence drug" ?

Blocking completely the androgen receptors should cause the follicle to end his DHT jail and regrow stronger, so maybe it simply isn't potent enough at that job.

Because Finasteride doesn't really block all DHT in serum (and even less in the follicle) and thats why it doesn't regrow.

This drug pathway is on the androgen receptors binding, so if it doesn't regrow, it is not super strong at that job. Even Dutasteride shows higher regrowth with just reducing serum DHT. Common sense. But maybe this is a good entry level for better mRNA pathways in future with higher efficacy.

Nonetheless good news to have more drugs acting on different pathways, so we can upgrade to a Big4, Big5... BigCope until HMI or haircloning is a real thing.

We've been over this. Even if you kill all androgens in the body and destroy all ARs in the follicles you won't regrow hair that is already lost. Bald eunuchs stay bald.

 

[hairlossisevil]

We've been over this. Even if you kill all androgens in the body and destroy all ARs in the follicles you won't regrow hair that is already lost. Bald eunuchs stay bald.

While everyone is different and there are some cases of ridiculous regrowth even down to juvenile hairline, I agree. For vast majority of male pattern baldness sufferers, once the hair is gone for 10+ years, you're not getting it back with conventional anti androgen treatments.

 

[kiwi666]

While everyone is different and there are some cases of ridiculous regrowth even down to juvenile hairline, I agree. For vast majority of male pattern baldness sufferers, once the hair is gone for 10+ years, you're not getting it back with conventional anti androgen treatments.

90 day reversal (photo) – WRassman,M.D. BaldingBlog

baldingblog.com

 

[RoryGall29]

How can you even be sure if a maintenance drug really maintains? Even if you weren't on any drug it would take years for you to lose enough hair for the new hair loss to be evident. I think the claims that a drug maintains can't be proven with a 6 - 12 month study.

With a periodic dermascopy...

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

We've been over this. Even if you kill all androgens in the body and destroy all ARs in the follicles you won't regrow hair that is already lost. Bald eunuchs stay bald.

Thats not the point of discussion. Sufficient DHT supression does regrow hair. Its not "manteinence". Yes, it doesn't regrow *all* hair but if Dutasteride or even RU yields better results than this drug in trials in terms of regrowth, then it is because the drug is not potent enough at its job of blocking the receptors. The trial results seem a bit underwhelming but again, this is the entry level to a new pathway. Thats always good news as new drugs can improve over it.

 

[whatevr]

How can you even be sure if a maintenance drug really maintains? Even if you weren't on any drug it would take years for you to lose enough hair for the new hair loss to be evident. I think the claims that a drug maintains can't be proven with a 6 - 12 month study.

Well you must be pretty lucky if you can go for a year without treatments and not know whether you're losing hair, because people with aggressive hair loss can visibly worsen even in a 1-2 month time span.

 

[pegasus2]

Well you must be pretty lucky if you can go for a year without treatments and not know whether you're losing hair, because people with aggressive hair loss can visibly worsen even in a 1-2 month time span.

From another perspective you're pretty lucky if you have enough hair left to visibly worsen

 

[ComeBackTemples]

Any news about release date and costs? End of q2 is in one month and my understanding was, that it will be available by the end of q2/2022

 

[Feelsbadman.jpg]

Thats not the point of discussion. Sufficient DHT supression does regrow hair. Its not "manteinence". Yes, it doesn't regrow *all* hair but if Dutasteride or even RU yields better results than this drug in trials in terms of regrowth, then it is because the drug is not potent enough at its job of blocking the receptors. The trial results seem a bit underwhelming but again, this is the entry level to a new pathway. Thats always good news as new drugs can improve over it.

Few things here. This is a completely different approach to 5AR inhibition or androgen receptor blockade and as such shouldn't be directly compared to those two treatments in my opinion.

With 5AR inhibition, you have increased T in the hair follicle which has more opportunity to aromatize to an estrogen with the 5AR pathway being mostly shut down. With a potent antiandrogen that is capable of blocking the vast majority of androgen receptors for an extended period of time, you are getting something similar, a chance for increased estrogen receptor binding and expression without any DHT signaling. With SAMiRNA, you get a reduction of the number of androgen receptors but not to the point where there are zero. There will still be DHT binding to some androgen receptors which directly antagonizes estrogen receptor beta expression.

SAMiRNA alone may not be impressive as a standalone compared to conventional treatments but when it is combined, it should have a compounding effect that exceeds any individual treatment in terms of results by a large margin. Therefore, I think it best to think of SAMiRNA as an adjunct treatment that enhances the efficacy of existing treatments. The fact that is once a week application and has no sides makes this an easy addition to any regimen provided it's not overly expensive.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Yeah thats pretty much the only good news about this treatment, that soon we will talk about "Big 4" or "Big 5" with how little effort / side effect profile it has and its working on a new MoA to our stacks.

But when most "revolutionary" treatments still flop after trials go on, if this is already starting like this it's not hard to be skeptical. CB-03 was all the rage in this forum when it was in phase I for the same "manteinence low sides drug" as this one and turned out to be pretty useless even as adjunct treatment.

 

[kiwi666]

Yeah thats pretty much the only good news about this treatment, that soon we will talk about "Big 4" or "Big 5" with how little effort / side effect profile it has and its working on a new MoA to our stacks.

But when most "revolutionary" treatments still flop after trials go on, if this is already starting like this it's not hard to be skeptical. CB-03 was all the rage in this forum when it was in phase I for the same "manteinence low sides drug" as this one and turned out to be pretty useless even as adjunct treatment.

It’d be a revolution when noobs stop being whiney b****s in the forum

 

[Dolph]

Quite simple, this is a maintenance treatment like finasteride. As with fina, only a very small part will actually regrow lots of hair.

That makes sense, but I am one of the people who gets a lot of regrowth with finasteride, it isn't a maintenance drug for me. Unfortunately it comes with side effects I'm not willing to tolerate. If SAMiRNA is strictly for maintenance, I will pass. Maintenance is better than nothing, but not worth it to me given my Norwood progression. Will be great for future generations if it works without sides though.

 

[Dolph]

Sorry, edited for clairy as you replied. I'm a diffuse thinner so it's hard to define the Norwood exactly but yes I think 1.5-2 Norwoods is about accurate

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

There's no such thing as "manteinence drug" anyway. It works on a pathway, and some people might respond better than others, that's it. If its "mantaining" for most people its basically because it's not too strong on its pathway.

It might have great synergistic effect on other drugs though. Look at microneedling... as a monotherapy it sucks but with minoxidil its the best growth agonist we have.

 

[5minutesbeforemiracle]

There's no such thing as "manteinence drug" anyway. It works on a pathway, and some people might respond better than others, that's it. If its "mantaining" for most people its basically because it's not too strong on its pathway.

It might have great synergistic effect on other drugs though. Look at microneedling... as a monotherapy it sucks but with minoxidil its the best growth agonist we have.

This seems wrong. The "DHT pathway" is a maintenance pathway. If you inhibit 100% DHT (eg. castrate them) then that will halt hairloss and strengthen any hairs that are still within a certain threshold of miniaturisation, but it won't regrow lost hair.