Puretech Health - 2017 Annual Report (2018-04-16)

[thomps1523]

If people want those results I would encourage them to use the same methods the study used and not even have to wait for Follica.

There is a science for neogenisis when using wounding, and a molecule. The average joe isn’t able to do exactly what follica states in their patent anymore than they can go home and mix molecules to create topicles undergoing trials right now with exact results. I guess I don’t understand why you give this thread any attention if you refuse to believe follica is capable of providing an effective treatment. I don’t necessarily believe in brotzu lotion, and so I stay off that thread.

 

[razzmatazz91]

My bad, it was on a similar thread
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29028377

Remember that the first iteration of Follica will not differ much from minoxidil + Some form of Skin Disruption

Also, here you have some pics showing why you shoudnt discourage people

Posting sources = + respect

I do hope this sh*t works man. It seems to be solid, but then, we're no experts.
It seems that it's just dermarolling/puncturing/wounding with minoxidil. So, I can't imagine people who don't regrow hair on mioxidil will regrow anything with wounding + minoxidil.

However, if wounding can result in follicle neogenesis on its own, then that's a different story. Most here who derma-roll get absolutely nothing. But if they figure out the details of the wounding required, I guess that works.
Still, I am doubtful for several reasons, mainly the minoxidil, and the fact that there may be no universal formula for wounding depth, as every scalp is different.

 

[Rolandconil]

Posting sources = + respect

I do hope this sh*t works man. It seems to be solid, but then, we're no experts.
It seems that it's just dermarolling/puncturing/wounding with minoxidil. So, I can't imagine people who don't regrow hair on mioxidil will regrow anything with wounding + minoxidil.

However, if wounding can result in follicle neogenesis on its own, then that's a different story. Most here who derma-roll get absolutely nothing. But if they figure out the details of the wounding required, I guess that works.
Still, I am doubtful for several reasons, mainly the minoxidil, and the fact that there may be no universal formula for wounding depth, as every scalp is different.

50/50. Minoxidil here rather to create a new follicle, rather than stimulating the old one. that is, a person who has walked 10 years bald head can regain his hair. Or another option: the new follicles are not susceptible to DHT, in which case it will be a breakthrough. The patents say about all the known stimulants and antiandrogens. This is such a complex treatment, I'm not very pleased. If a visit to the dermatologist is more than 10 times a year, then I will refuse this.

 

[H]

There is a science for neogenisis when using wounding, and a molecule. The average joe isn’t able to do exactly what follica states in their patent anymore than they can go home and mix molecules to create topicles undergoing trials right now with exact results. I guess I don’t understand why you give this thread any attention if you refuse to believe follica is capable of providing an effective treatment. I don’t necessarily believe in brotzu lotion, and so I stay off that thread.

You have the burden of proof man. I don't know how Follica will turn out anymore then you know that the average Joe can't achieve the same results they can using the same methods they plan on using there's no evidence to say this is going to work any better than min and wounding which people are already doing.. none. That's not to say I hope it doesn't work extremely well I'm bald why the hell wouldn't I want it to work? I hope it works fantastic but given the information we currently have I myself don't see that. I definately see this as the first treatment coming out soon but also giving the same results as min and wounding with a fancy looking needler. Are you upset because I am not cheering on Follica? Should we hide from people who don't share our perspective and give up discussion?

 

[itsjustsimon]

You have the burden of proof man. I don't know how Follica will turn out anymore then you know that the average Joe can't achieve the same results they can using the same methods they plan on using there's no evidence to say this is going to work any better than min and wounding which people are already doing.. none. That's not to say I hope it doesn't work extremely well I'm bald why the hell wouldn't I want it to work? I hope it works fantastic but given the information we currently have I myself don't see that. I definately see this as the first treatment coming out soon but also giving the same results as min and wounding with a fancy looking needler. Are you upset because I am not cheering on Follica? Should we hide from people who don't share our perspective and give up discussion?

Tend to agree but not sure why they need to test this in the studies for FDA approval if it’s just minoxidil and some fancy dermastamp

 

[SheddieMurphy]

You have the burden of proof man. I don't know how Follica will turn out anymore then you know that the average Joe can't achieve the same results they can using the same methods they plan on using there's no evidence to say this is going to work any better than min and wounding which people are already doing.. none. That's not to say I hope it doesn't work extremely well I'm bald why the hell wouldn't I want it to work? I hope it works fantastic but given the information we currently have I myself don't see that. I definately see this as the first treatment coming out soon but also giving the same results as min and wounding with a fancy looking needler. Are you upset because I am not cheering on Follica? Should we hide from people who don't share our perspective and give up discussion?

agreed, i dont know why people equate skepticism with not wanting something to work.

btw these endemic photo proofs of supposed regrowth mean nothing. i try to avoid even looking at them because i feel insulted whenever i see those manipulations with light, styling, angles, hair length, concealers etc.

if wounding (applies to other miracle treatments too) was able to produce substantial results, we'd have hundreds of people reporting them. not 5 jpg files in 50 years.

 

[H]

Tend to agree but not sure why they need to test this in the studies for FDA approval if it’s just minoxidil and some fancy dermastamp

Money. Having that FDA approval will surely secure some leery customers especially when you explain what it's all about. They also wouldn't be able to capitalize on it (which they will be the first to capitalize on this method) if it didn't look somewhat different than the combining of needling and min because people could just go buy the 2 for I would think cheaper than this is going to be. Companies take 2 things everybody's used to combining and package them together to make money all the time. Follica does have an advantage because we've known about this wounding method for years and no ones tried to sell it so it's easy pickings and we can all agree how undernourished the hairloss community is we look for ANY glimmer of hope . This all does in no way mean for sure it wont give results better than min and needling but I've also seen nothing that suggests it will.

 

[Kagaho]

agreed, i dont know why people equate skepticism with not wanting something to work.

I understand your skepticism, especially coming from a former Brotzu dreamer. The photos that were presented by Fidia were completely flawed, man. Really sucks balls

btw these endemic photo proofs of supposed regrowth mean nothing. i try to avoid even looking at them because i feel insulted whenever i see those manipulations with light, styling, angles, hair length, concealers etc.

If you opened your head a little you would notice that the photos i posted and many others are success stories uploaded by the users themselves or clinical studies from respected researchers, generally taken with HQ cams. If you want to look to the other side fine, but most of the pics about wounding and minoxidil are solid.

if wounding (applies to other miracle treatments too) was able to produce substantial results, we'd have hundreds of people reporting them. not 5 jpg files in 50 years.

Im tired of repeating myself, there are a lot of success cases: search the different forums, read the studies and clinical trials published. Evidence, anecdotal and clinical is pilling up and a well respected company is taking the effort to refine a treatment based on wounding.

I want to say that I don’t think this stuff gonna be perfect for all people suffering Androgenetic Alopecia, but IT HAS THE POTENCIAL to be a good thing, especially for lower norwoods.

Also, there are a lot of unknowns: wounding method, duration of the treatment, antiandrogenic angle, etc.

 

[Kagaho]

Posting sources = + respect

I do hope this sh*t works man. It seems to be solid, but then, we're no experts.
It seems that it's just dermarolling/puncturing/wounding with minoxidil. So, I can't imagine people who don't regrow hair on mioxidil will regrow anything with wounding + minoxidil.

However, if wounding can result in follicle neogenesis on its own, then that's a different story. Most here who derma-roll get absolutely nothing. But if they figure out the details of the wounding required, I guess that works.
Still, I am doubtful for several reasons, mainly the minoxidil, and the fact that there may be no universal formula for wounding depth, as every scalp is different.

Yes it is solid. Im regrowing hair (just an anecdotal case, i know) with it and i wasnt a good responder to Minoxidil, used for 2 years with no gains from it.

I agree with you that every scalp is different, some users reported success only after almost 2 years of dermarolling while others (like me) started to see results at the 2 month mark.

And be certain that dermarolling at 1.5 mm depth is good enough to wound even the thickest scalp

 

[MrV88]

I understand your skepticism, especially coming from a former Brotzu dreamer. The photos that were presented by Fidia were completely flawed, man. Really sucks balls


If you opened your head a little you would notice that the photos i posted and many others are success stories uploaded by the users themselves or clinical studies from respected researchers, generally taken with HQ cams. If you want to look to the other side fine, but most of the pics about wounding and minoxidil are solid.



Im tired of repeating myself, there are a lot of success cases: search the different forums, read the studies and clinical trials published. Evidence, anecdotal and clinical is pilling up and a well respected company is taking the effort to refine a treatment based on wounding.

I want to say that I don’t think this stuff gonna be perfect for all people suffering Androgenetic Alopecia, but IT HAS THE POTENCIAL to be a good thing, especially for lower norwoods.

Also, there are a lot of unknowns: wounding method, duration of the treatment, antiandrogenic angle, etc.

Like the wise one "NOİSETTE" already said follica and wounding procedures like that could lead to repaired donor areas and maybe average neogenesis that these areas would be covered and healthy again.

So everybody could get a decent transplant and wait until an even depleted and fucked up donor area is back to "somehow normal"

Think about the big picture!

 

[Javell]

I've been hoping and coping for this week, looking through copes old and new.
I reread these famous wounding studies again and was f*****g mindblown

Holy sh*t, what the f***? After only 1 week. Even Rachita Dhurat's NW7 study is impressive, if the process could be repeated countless times we are f*****g saved and in her finasteride + minoxidil NW7 study she said yes, it could be repeated.

Now there is one problem, she never studied if the gains were maintained in those who used Minoxidil + Dermarolling only, in those that did use finasteride they were maintained.

Her NW7 study makes it seem like it is possible for NW7 to get thin coverage all over scalp, including hairline, but that would take time and repetition.

By the way, the pics are from her original study, NW7 study looks less impressive, but is still amazing that they got regrowth at that stage and it was consistent.
.

 

[acbrantlin]

I've been hoping and coping for this week, looking through copes old and new.
I reread these famous wounding studies again and was f*****g mindblown
View attachment 87406
Holy sh*t, what the f***? After only 1 week. Even Rachita Dhurat's NW7 study is impressive, if the process could be repeated countless times we are f*****g saved and in her finasteride + minoxidil NW7 study she said yes, it could be repeated.

Now there is one problem, she never studied if the gains were maintained in those who used Minoxidil + Dermarolling only, in those that did use finasteride they were maintained.

Her NW7 study makes it seem like it is possible for NW7 to get thin coverage all over scalp, including hairline, but that would take time and repetition.

By the way, the pics are from her original study, NW7 study looks less impressive, but is still amazing that they got regrowth at that stage and it was consistent.
.

I wouldn't take those pictures seriously. Look at that left baseline. It looks healthy as f***. You could inject DHT into each of those follicles and it would still look like the after pic after 1 week. The right baseline image looks like it's taken from a fuckin cadaver.

 

[Javell]

I wouldn't take those pictures seriously. Look at that left baseline. It looks healthy as f***. You could inject DHT into each of those follicles and it would still look like the after pic after 1 week. The right baseline image looks like it's taken from a fuckin cadaver.

Still 2013 study looked very good

You could argue that it's just longer hair, but Patient 2 is no bullshit. Patient 1 has different angle.

 

[That Guy]

Still 2013 study looked very good
View attachment 87407
You could argue that it's just longer hair, but Patient 2 is no bullshit. Patient 1 has different angle.

So? It's clearly way more hair than he had before.

Patient 1 is way more impressive, IMO

 

[That Guy]

I hope it works fantastic but given the information we currently have I myself don't see that. I definately see this as the first treatment coming out soon but also giving the same results as min and wounding with a fancy looking needler

The "information we have" demonstrates results better than minoxidil and finasteride, yet you don't "see" it providing anything but the same results?

I just don't understand how people can have this kind of ignorance that is so prevalent on these forums.

It's like people think the science and the data isn't representative of the technology they're actually working on.

Tsuji and Jahoda use human cells to grow human hair even in other animals > "Yeah! But how do we know it's going to work in humans!?"

Various, unaffiliated studies give credibility to Follica's protocol and show regrowth superior to current treatments > "It'll probably be just like minoxidil, f***!"

Now, that's not to say there hasn't been bullshit before of course, but that almost entirely comes from shitty startups like Histogen running trials in places with dubious standards; if there are standards at all (Bahamas)

But for the most part, this is the equivalent of people denying it was possible to go to space even though all launch tests, etc. proved that while difficult, it could still be done exactly as it was said to be.

....but then, there are people who still think we've never actually been to space, never mind the moon, so I guess it's not that surprising.

 

[Super Metroid]

The "information we have" demonstrates results better than minoxidil and finasteride, yet you don't "see" it providing anything but the same results?

I just don't understand how people can have this kind of ignorance that is so prevalent on these forums.

It's like people think the science and the data isn't representative of the technology they're actually working on.

Tsuji and Jahoda use human cells to grow human hair even in other animals > "Yeah! But how do we know it's going to work in humans!?"

Various, unaffiliated studies give credibility to Follica's protocol and show regrowth superior to current treatments > "It'll probably be just like minoxidil, f***!"

Now, that's not to say there hasn't been bullshit before of course, but that almost entirely comes from shitty startups like Histogen running trials in places with dubious standards; if there are standards at all (Bahamas)

But for the most part, this is the equivalent of people denying it was possible to go to space even though all launch tests, etc. proved that while difficult, it could still be done exactly as it was said to be.

....but then, there are people who still think we've never actually been to space, never mind the moon, so I guess it's not that surprising.

First of all, I don't have in-depth knowledge about all of these treatments myself, but according to hairlosscure2020 Follica's CEO has implicated that his products results will "at best be slightly better than minoxidil". Of course, it is commendable that a CEO doesn't hype up his product to an unreasonable extent, but can we expect a solution from a company that sets the bar so low?

 

[Kagaho]

but according to hairlosscure2020 Follica's CEO has implicated that his products results will "at best be slightly better than minoxidil". Of course, it is commendable that a CEO doesn't hype up his product to an unreasonable extent, but can we expect a solution from a company that sets the bar so low?

This sounds like bs to me. If you have a link to the post or comment would be nice

Also, go check Puretech site, they are expecting "3-4X Effect of current therapies"

http://puretechhealth.com/our-pipeline/wound-induced-neogenesis-rain

I think you are confusing Follica with Follicum, the swedish lotion guys

 

[Super Metroid]

This sounds like bs to me. If you have a link to the post or comment would be nice

Also, go check Puretech site, they are expecting "3-4X Effect of current therapies"

http://puretechhealth.com/our-pipeline/wound-induced-neogenesis-rain

I think you are confusing Follica with Follicum, the swedish lotion guys

You're right. Apologies.

 

[Kagaho]

Various, unaffiliated studies give credibility to Follica's protocol and show regrowth superior to current treatments > "It'll probably be just like minoxidil, f***!"

lol this is so true. I think its kinda a mechanism of defense, people not wanting to be disappointed.

 

[H]

The "information we have" demonstrates results better than minoxidil and finasteride, yet you don't "see" it providing anything but the same results?

I just don't understand how people can have this kind of ignorance that is so prevalent on these forums.

It's like people think the science and the data isn't representative of the technology they're actually working on.

Tsuji and Jahoda use human cells to grow human hair even in other animals > "Yeah! But how do we know it's going to work in humans!?"

Various, unaffiliated studies give credibility to Follica's protocol and show regrowth superior to current treatments > "It'll probably be just like minoxidil, f***!"

Now, that's not to say there hasn't been bullshit before of course, but that almost entirely comes from shitty startups like Histogen running trials in places with dubious standards; if there are standards at all (Bahamas)

But for the most part, this is the equivalent of people denying it was possible to go to space even though all launch tests, etc. proved that while difficult, it could still be done exactly as it was said to be.

....but then, there are people who still think we've never actually been to space, never mind the moon, so I guess it's not that surprising.

I said min and wounding not min and finasteride for which there is no proof at all Follicas concept is superior.