Shampoo DOES NOT CAUSE BALDNESS

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Diamond Dave

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Cutsinger is God said:
Listen, we might not be scientists but for many grunge works but you continue to want to focus on any negatives you can drum up. Nobody is telling everyone to go off your medication. We are just presenting facts to you based on our own experiences. Throw them in the garbage if you want, it's up to you. We are not selling a thing as Badasshairday said.

Well said CIG.
Some guys are just conditioned not to believe something unless it requires a prescription and the box it comes in has a guy, whose paid to model in a white lab coat, tell you this is what you need.

Come on Oprah.......
 

Pondle

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Cutsinger is God said:
Dave, I find it funny that because we all don't go walking around with white lab coats acting like the professor on Gilligan's Island that what we say cannot be taken serious. How many **** scientists are here?

Some of the guys have professional and/or academic backgrounds in various scientific disciplines; others have years of self-education. I myself studied the philosophy of science in Graduate School, so I know what's proper scientific method and what's hokum. But that's not important. All you really need is a reasonable degree of intelligence and the ability to think critically. You guys don't seem to possess either.

A couple nerds that need science to back everything up.

And your alternative to science is... what exactly? The received wisdom of "some guy" on the internet? Conspiracy theorists?

I just went to a post the other day at this place and all these guys here were talking about penis'. I saw absolutely nothing about science in what they were saying. Uk1 shows a photo of a black dildo on a toilet. I doubt he's a scientist and if he is I wouldn't want that pervert working for me.

We have a laugh as well as talking about the science of hair loss and its treatment. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

Of all the hundreds of members at GIB that are grunge or the countless thousands doing it secretly, I know of not a single man who's a scientist.

Exactly.

These people are there because the evidence that Lawrence layed out for everyone is solid.

No it's not. He didn't actually present any "evidence", as in robust studies published in reputable, peer-reviewed scientific journals.

They also are fed up with what is currently out on the market to regrow hair which isn't much other than a lifetime of buying someone's product because once you quit, you lose everything you gained. This is not a cure but a band aid. Lawrence says he's found a CURE and we are still in the experimenting stage but there are definately people responding if you stay on it long enough.

There is no cure for male pattern baldness. It is a progressive condition caused by androgen sensitivity. The transition of at least some terminal hairs into vellus hairs is a universal physiological secondary sexual characteristic. Clin Endocrinol 1994;40:439¬-57.

The prerequisites for premature androgenetic alopecia are a genetic predisposition and sufficient levels of androgens. Eunuchs and men with 5AR deficiency never go bald. Every white man possesses the autosomal inherited predisposition, and 96% lose hair to some degree, but because of the variabity of gene expression far fewer have appreciable premature hair loss. Am J Anat 1942;71:451-¬80. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1960;20:1309¬-18. Dawber RPR, ed. Diseases of the hair and scalp. Oxford: Blackwell Science, 1997. Ann N Y Acad Sci 1951;53:708¬-28

Everything Lawrence Cutsinger, my true American Idol says makes total sense.

Bollocks. It doesn't make any sense! :D

The photos are undeniable. Widowspeak, FirestormUK and Lawrence himself who went from a bowling ball to a Norwood 7 in only 10 years and on his way in July to a Norwood 1 to the Oprah Show later this year hopefully.

Grow up dude. Even if this guy was destroying his immune system with cyclosporine this would be impossible. You're a prankser, right?

Lawrence is a great American folks and you really need to appreciate all the work he's done to understand the passion this man feels about this cause of his and his theory on baldness.

A 'great American' with not a clue about male pattern baldness.

Listen, we might not be scientists but for many grunge works but you continue to want to focus on any negatives you can drum up. Nobody is telling everyone to go off your medication. We are just presenting facts to you based on our own experiences. Throw them in the garbage if you want, it's up to you. We are not selling a thing as Badasshairday said.

We've presented the logical and evidential flaws in your theory time and again, but you refuse to respond to the criticisms. As Doctor has said, chemicals in rinse-off shampoo products do not have sufficient time to absorb into the skin and, even if they did, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that they damage hair follicles - quite the contrary, according to some of the information that Bryan has posted e.g. "Induction of hair growth by skin irritants and its relation to skin protein kinase C isoforms." Br J Dermatol 1999 Apr;140(4):616-23.
 

global

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It's true most of the people posting on that forum admit they have given up because it wasn't working.

In fact the site is almost dead, not even worth visiting.

There are very few photos there showing any significant growth that can't be explained by different lighting or just longer hair.

Certainly no changes in Norwood level as we are accostomed to seeing here from people who have documented there progress with scientific treatments.

Even the people who Dave & CIG claim show regrowth such as Widowspeak dont show anything very noticeable unless you have an active imagination.
 

barcafan

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Cutsinger.

do you have ANY photographic evidence as proof?

Or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

And that shitty site you posted isnt proof.
 
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Pondle said:
The prerequisites for premature androgenetic alopecia are a genetic predisposition and sufficient levels of androgens. Eunuchs and men with 5AR deficiency never go bald. Every white man possesses the autosomal inherited predisposition, and 96% lose hair to some degree, but because of the variabity of gene expression far fewer have appreciable premature hair loss.

Another smoking gun... Explain that CIG/DD
 

Cutsinger is God

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badasshairday said:
Pondle said:
The prerequisites for premature androgenetic alopecia are a genetic predisposition and sufficient levels of androgens. Eunuchs and men with 5AR deficiency never go bald. Every white man possesses the autosomal inherited predisposition, and 96% lose hair to some degree, but because of the variabity of gene expression far fewer have appreciable premature hair loss.

Another smoking gun... Explain that CIG/DD

Explain it? It's from Pondle. What more needs to be said. The guy is obsessed with me.
 

Cutsinger is God

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barcafan said:
Cutsinger.

do you have ANY photographic evidence as proof?

Or are we just supposed to take your word for it?

And that shitty site you posted isnt proof.

So we agree to disagree. I say the evidence is overwhelming at GetItBack and you don't. Now may I suggest you never respond to this issue ever again and go on your merry way. Ok? Good. I thank you for your time Barfafan.
 
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Isn't it interesting that Cutsinger and Diamond Dave are often on at the same time? They generally post one right after the other. Hahah. Whate a sham
 

docj077

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Cutsinger is God said:
badasshairday said:
Pondle said:
The prerequisites for premature androgenetic alopecia are a genetic predisposition and sufficient levels of androgens. Eunuchs and men with 5AR deficiency never go bald. Every white man possesses the autosomal inherited predisposition, and 96% lose hair to some degree, but because of the variabity of gene expression far fewer have appreciable premature hair loss.

Another smoking gun... Explain that CIG/DD

Explain it? It's from Pondle. What more needs to be said. The guy is obsessed with me.

Whether he's obsessed or not obsessed doesn't matter. What he posted is scientifically correct and backed up by pretty much every study that deals with the hormonal aspect of male pattern baldness.
 

Diamond Dave

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JayMan said:
Isn't it interesting that Cutsinger and Diamond Dave are often on at the same time? They generally post one right after the other. Hahah. Whate a sham

Not a sham at all JayMan...

CIG has told you he is a mailman which means he gets off work early in the afternoon.

I do not go to work. I make my money on the internet and no I won't tell you what I do so you can falsely accuse me of advertising something.
I can be on here anytime of the day.

If the mods check the forum logs they will see that I have been on there from the hours of about 8 AM til about 11 PM. CIG always disappears during the day.

Mystery solved and I know you don't believe me.
 

Cutsinger is God

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JayMan said:
Isn't it interesting that Cutsinger and Diamond Dave are often on at the same time? They generally post one right after the other. Hahah. Whate a sham

Isn't it interesting that you and flim flam both have these same avatar's? I suggest the mods check you two out. Better yet, I call for the mods to check all 14,000 plus people out to make sure JayMan feels "safe" from possible infiltration of some bald guy/guys possibly posing as two characters.

As far as I am concerned the biggest threat to national security of HairLossTalk.com and the world from Global Balding is Diamond Dave and Cutsinger is God. The nonshampooing insurgents need to be stopped at all cost. I couldn't imagine the thought of one man skipping his daily use of shampoo. God help us all.
 

Jojje

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eehhhm cutsinger: you said it took this guy 10 years to become a norwood 7........
And the u think POOF he will becoma a NW1 ????
eehhhmm Do you belive in Santa and the easter Bunny too ???
 

global

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Yes they are even laughing at Diamond Dave and CIG on Getitback too, the very site they are here to promote.

They don't even believe them over there, ha ha too funny.
 

Beethoven

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docj077 said:
Cutsinger is God said:
badasshairday said:
Pondle said:
The prerequisites for premature androgenetic alopecia are a genetic predisposition and sufficient levels of androgens. Eunuchs and men with 5AR deficiency never go bald. Every white man possesses the autosomal inherited predisposition, and 96% lose hair to some degree, but because of the variabity of gene expression far fewer have appreciable premature hair loss.

Another smoking gun... Explain that CIG/DD

Explain it? It's from Pondle. What more needs to be said. The guy is obsessed with me.

Whether he's obsessed or not obsessed doesn't matter. What he posted is scientifically correct and backed up by pretty much every study that deals with the hormonal aspect of male pattern baldness.

They have the same method over and over again in all their threads, it's been going hundreds of posts.
Instead of answering to the science proof question, they relate to one of the accustion in the near posts (in this example Jayman's), the argument continue and they manage to avoid answering the science question.

Take a look, they do it all the time in all their threads.

DD and CIS: post science proofs to your claims.
 

Harie

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Your example about Widowspeak is also BS. While he may be into the grunge, he also takes massive doses of Beta Sistosterol. Beta Sistosterol is a known natural DHT inhibitor.

Once again, your own examples keep putting nails in the coffin.

And then you post about Demodex treatments. The only Demodex treatments I know of require washing your hair with Sea Buckthorn soap, Tea Tree soap/oil or using Nioxin's shampoo specifically designed to clean up after them. That definitely doesn't go along with not washing your hair.
 

Diamond Dave

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Harie said:
The only Demodex treatments I know of require washing your hair with Sea Buckthorn soap, Tea Tree soap/oil or using Nioxin's shampoo specifically designed to clean up after them. That definitely doesn't go along with not washing your hair.

Of course demodex shampoo doesn't "go along" with not washing your hair but demodex will continue to multiply and colonize in your scalp if untreated.
 

global

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Diamond Dave why do you have a hair regrowth counter in your signature when you have refused to post any pictures of your regrowth?

Even on your other forum they know you are a fraud for your refusal to post pictures.

Is that why you came here? because everyone laughs at you on Cutsingers site?
 

Diamond Dave

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global said:
Yes they are even laughing at Diamond Dave and CIG on Getitback too, the very site they are here to promote.

They don't even believe them over there, ha ha too funny.

Total non-stop lies by GB.

Since you know soooo much about the Getitback site GB,...
What is CIG's name on Getitback?
What name are they laughing at?

Answer: You have no clue as usual and there is NO laughing going on.
 
G

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I have been looking at GIB and it looks like mostly trash.

Here's another happy grunger

Username: Follichron

"Hi group,

It's been 2 years since I've taken the grunge plunge and am reporting in with a status. I really hate to say this, but I can't honestly say that I've grown even one new hair. Pathetic as it may be, I don't even have a fresh crop of peach fuzz. I'm rather depressed about the whole situation but am not giving up.

Conversely, I haven't lost anymore hair either. This may be related grunge but this hypothesis can't be proven conclusively.

Due to the frantic pace of my schedule during the last year, I haven't had time to positively contribute to our study. I'm honestly sorry that I after an extended period of time I finally show up at the door with nothing but "dead flowers".

I have been reading the posts from time to time. I'm happy to see that some of you are having tangible results. Also, I am in awe of the inhuman will power demonstrated by Widows Peak. If he ever has sex with a women again there's a real possibility that he'll blow a hole clean through her. Widows Peak, you are my new hero!

Anyway, my lack of progress may be attributed to my age. I'm now 43 which makes me one of the old guys in the study. Chronology aside, I'm in good health and work-out 3 - 4 times a week (335 on the bench; not too bad for a guy my age). My work-out includes 10 -15 minutes of cardio. I eat no red meat and limit fatty foods.

Many of you may be interested in knowing that I tried beta-sitosterol for four months with no positive results. In fact, I experienced a significant loss in strength while I was using it. I initially started using 120mg X 1 for the first week, then increased it to 120mg X 2 the second week. I soon discovered a reduction in strength during my work-outs. Rather than completely discontinue the supplement, I varied the dosage (not exceeding 240mg daily) but could not find a optimal dose. After 4 months I stopped using it. My strength returned the following week.

For those interested in my regimen / history, here it is:

2 years grunge (nothing but water)
No SLS shampoo 4 years prior to going grunge

Aerobic / anaerobic exercise 3-4 days/week (primarily weights)

No red meat / limited dairy products (lactose intolerant )

And yes, I still rub one out every now and then (wtf - I ain't no Widows Peak)!

That’s all for now. I'll try to be more active on the site.

Good luck to you all."




WOW 6 years SLS free and nothing....
 

docj077

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You guys are making assumptions and trying to sway others by saying that their is proof in the pictures posted at http://www.millerarts.com?

Wow, you all really need to compare pics from there to pics from here. There ARE people here that have gone from NW5-6 to almost full regrowth on this site by using finasteride, nizoral, and minoxidil. However, you have examples like the following:

http://www.millerarts.com/discuss/viewt ... sc&start=0

This individual has been doing the "no shampoo thing" for ten years and that is all that he has achieved. The later pictures that are posted aren't even reliable as the angle is different and still demonstrates nothing.

That man is an excellent example of what it looks like when you have fewer androgen receptors and 5 alpha reductase in the occipital region of the scalp and more androgen receptors and 5AR in the vertex and front. He went bald, because he has a genetic predisposition towards balding that has been proven. There is a clear defect in the androgen receptor gene located on the x chromosome. Science has proven this and the degree of the defect determines your sensitivity or insensitivity to androgens at the level of the dermal papillae and dermal fibroblasts. Hell, I'll even throw Foote's theory in there and say that it determines the response of lymphatic endothelial cells, as well.


If you all truly believe the crap that you keep saying, then post a study that proves that shampoo is absorbed through the epidermis and into the blood stream. IF shampoo can make it through the tightly packed cells of the epidermis, through all those tight junctions, and through the basement membrane, then surely one will be able to isolate the chemicals not only from adipose tissue in the scalp, but adipose tissue in other regions of the body or even from the blood itself. Not only will this be true, but shampoo induced inflammation should be present in all cases of male pattern baldness, which is totally untrue, because a lot of men show no signs of inflammation whatsoever.

THE BODY DOES NOT PRODUCE AN INFLAMMATORY RESPONSE WITHOUT CLEARLY DEMONSTRATING INFLAMMATION MICROSCOPICALLY.

Now, you have a point to prove, so stop just screwing around and prove it. Any given study that you've posted demonstrates that the chemicals you say are harmful will effect cells that are not protected by their normal environment. Like I said, I can put water on a neuron, a cardiac myocyte, or hepatocyte and watch with satisfaction as that cell begins to swell and eventually burst. All chemicals that alter the ionic gradient of a cell to the point that the cell can no longer function will cause the death of that cell. Especially, when they are in culture and especially when they are lacking their normal homeostatic environment.


STOP POSTING HERE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF FOR THE ABOVE.

I really don't care if you feel the need to have an opinion. Too many people feel like they should be heard. However, that's not the case when you do not have any evidence to back up your claims. If you all desire to continue down this road, then when I want your opinion I'LL give it to you.

The people that have pm'd you are being led astray and should discontinue with such action. This site is dedicated to medically proven treatments and their results. Fortunately, those results can be seen in the success story section among all 219 topics.

To be honest, I looked through the pics on that site. Nothing struck me as a dramatic improvement compared to what I've seen here on this site. Especially, when one considers that many of those posters are using supplements, dietary changes, and exericse to complement their daily lifestyle while many posters here are simply using medication and continuing with their normal daily routine.
 
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