There's A Big, Enviromental Factor In Baldness, And It's Still Undiscovered.

[buckthorn]

My point is this:

Say you were to trace hereditary heart disease in a family. You would eventually find a cutoff point where no one seemed to have it before them; you can find the person whose genes likely introduced it. If you managed to find someone from 200 years back in your family who had it, but few or no one else did, that is not conclusive evidence that you genetically inherited it.

It's like the old myth of "your mother's side of the family is where baldness comes from". Well, just about no one of close ancestry or relation on either side of my family has baldness to any severe degree.

Male-pattern baldness has afflicted humans regularly across the globe since basically the dawn of homo sapien. To me, that suggests this is different from hereditary diseases and is instead a human characteristic. Even statistically, it suggests that men who don't bald are an irregularity. In something like heart disease, the disease itself is an irregularity. I don't think you'll find any family on Earth where a great percentage of males didn't have male pattern baldness.

If that makes sense.

yeah, definitely could be. I don't really know tbh. It may even be due to genes that aren't being transcribed in certain generations that are later turned on in newer ones. there are so many factors involved, you are absolutely right. I don't really know too much about it, I just like to pretend I do.

 

[buckthorn]

You missed my point -

Androgenetic Alopecia is Androgenetic Alopecia and the sufferer of it will bald no matter what. HOWEVER, I personally believe it's very possible to speed it up, through lifestyle choices that may drastically negatively impact your body.

I personally know this for fact.

tear my ACL - Telogen Effluvium. Depression, anxiety ridden sleeplessness, drinking all day - Telogen Effluvium. Surgery -Telogen Effluvium.

So, how do we know that their aren't more mild forms of Telogen Effluvium that may take form when there are other physiological imbalances from drinking, smoking, eating poorly, etc... ?? How do we really know?

@FredTheBelgian - please explain why this was worth a "dislike". Not that I really care, but I don't understand your thinking on this and am very curious.

All I am saying is that it is VERY likely that EXTREME physiological changes can SPEED UP Androgenetic Alopecia. This would happen by a feedback through the body signaling more follicles to enter telogen than normal. I mean, you do agree that Telogen Effluvium is not a made up condition, correct?

THIS CAN speed up male pattern baldness because with male pattern baldness it's not really about losing hair, it's about the ability to REGROW it. Telogen Effluvium, even in it's mildest forms can cause extreme thinning.

 

[Roberto_72]

i'd venture a guess and say he disliked it because your statement implies the sufferer is somewhat "responsible" for the degree of Androgenetic Alopecia. That notion is something someone like Fred would never accept.

I personally agree that other factors can exacerbate Androgenetic Alopecia; lifestyle, diet and even mental health can all reduce or increase the degree to which certain conditions affect us. I mean, it's been basically confirmed that Androgenetic Alopecia is an autoimmune condition, not unlike diabetes; just like diabetes, diet and lifestyle can very much influence how much you are affected. Therefore, i think it is perfectly logical to assume lifestyle, diet and perhaps even environment can affect your Androgenetic Alopecia.

There is an unfortunate difference between Androgenetic Alopecia and diabetes: we DO know what life choices can trigger diabetes: lots of sugars mainly. But what factors trigger / accelerate Androgenetic Alopecia?

@David_MPN recently linked a study that said that fatter twins lose less hair! And those who drink 0 alcohol lose more hair than those who drink moderate alcohol!

PS: I re read this post and I realized how painfully and ridiculously in the dark we are.

 

[buckthorn]

@David_MPN recently linked a study that said that fatter twins lose less hair! And those who drink 0 alcohol lose more hair than those who drink moderate alcohol!

in the past year I gained 25lbs and started drinking. My hair is worst than ever. Not saying i am any indicator, but damn that's unlucky.

 

[Roberto_72]

in the past year I gained 25lbs and started drinking. My hair is worst than ever. Not saying i am any indicator, but damn that's unlucky.

Hahaha
You tried it all!

 

[buckthorn]

Hahaha
You tried it all!

well, not intentionally

 

[EvilLocks]

No.

And what the hell David?

I thought you were a man of science?!

Ah well, I guess it's because you're not bald yet.

Once you reach NW5, you'll stop putting faith in those absurd claims.

My grandfather started balding at 17. Was bald at 23.

My father started balding at 17. Was bald at 23.

I started balding at 17. Was bald at 23.

And we all had completely different lifestyles and diets.

Male pattern baldness is 100% genetic.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

Agreed. Our fate is sealed from the moment sperm hits the egg.

 

[Rudiger]

People will vaguely argue otherwise because when it comes to male pattern baldness there will always be people who have it extremely early no matter what they do, and people who will have a thick NW1 practically until death. The other 90% of us in between have variables, a guy who goes to NW3 at age 35 possibly could have saved himself 2 or 3 more years by not smoking, having a healthy diet and exercising.

I mean it appears that genetics are way, way more influential, the difference of lifestyle isn't really worth worrying about, there's no point in trying to save your hair by completely changing how you've lived your entire life, either you are already living that healthy way or it won't happen. Of course if you can be motivated to live healthy then it has benefits across the board so why not, but it won't be possible to keep that motivation by thinking you are maintaining your hair, because the effect would be so gradual you won't be able to tell over the years, exactly what difference it's making.

And the counter to all this? "Keep drinking your veggie shakes to save your hair LOL" which doesn't negate anything, it's a stupid comment which in no way counters any science behind a lifetime of healthy or un-healthy choices affecting or stimulating blood flow in the scalp.

Simple as that.

 

[Cue Bald]

there's this guy on youtube who goes on and on about healthy life, vegan, fruit and veg shakes.. meanwhile his hair just gets worse and worse (he tried to hide it behind hats)
one of the healthiest guys i know is NW6.

meanwhile all the bums and rock stars have thick NW1.
perhaps the cure to male pattern baldness is hard drugs? if taking Heroin every day gave me a NW1, personally i would do it

 

[I.D WALKER]

if taking Heroin every day gave me a NW1, personally i would do it

Hairoin.

 

[GoldenMane]

There is an unfortunate difference between Androgenetic Alopecia and diabetes: we DO know what life choices can trigger diabetes: lots of sugars mainly. But what factors trigger / accelerate Androgenetic Alopecia?

@David_MPN recently linked a study that said that fatter twins lose less hair! And those who drink 0 alcohol lose more hair than those who drink moderate alcohol!

PS: I re read this post and I realized how painfully and ridiculously in the dark we are.

Too much noise, it may not be the diet or alcohol that triggers one to lose hair before the other, it could be stress. Stress plays havoc with hormones and we all know Androgenetic Alopecia is a genetic/hormonal disease.

 

[Balding Virgin]

male pattern baldness is 100% caused by genetics. How are there there still any arguments? There are starving, malnourished men in Africa living next to toxic waste dumps and they have thick NW0's. As previously mentioned, there's also old homeless men, living in some of the worse possible environmental conditions in 1st world countries, with full, thick NW0's.

It's time to accept that some of us are born with inferior genetics.

 

[Roberto_72]

It's time to accept that some of us are born with inferior genetics.

I'm not sure I would say inferior as unlucky.

A metaphor:
In Italy and Spain, soccer players affirm it's fair they gain tens of millions a year, just because their sports is popular and fans give that money to them.
They are the NW0s of course.

On the other hand there are incredibly talented sports people who have to tend a bar for a living because the sport they excel in is not popular (think rugby). In this metaphor, they are the NW6s.

I don't think their genetics are inferior: they are just very very unlucky their sports turned out to be the unpopular done.

 

[Balding Virgin]

I'm not sure I would say inferior as unlucky.

A metaphor:
In Italy and Spain, soccer players affirm it's fair they gain tens of millions a year, just because their sports is popular and fans give that money to them.
They are the NW0s of course.

On the other hand there are incredibly talented sports people who have to tend a bar for a living because the sport they excel in is not popular (think rugby). In this metaphor, they are the NW6s.

I don't think their genetics are inferior: they are just very very unlucky their sports turned out to be the unpopular done.

Balding is seen as aesthetically unpleasing, unhealthy, and as a sign of old age. I would say that men who are visibly balding are socially disadvantaged compared to men who have full heads of hair.

 

[That Guy]

Balding is seen as aesthetically unpleasing, unhealthy, and as a sign of old age. I would say that men who are visibly balding are socially disadvantaged compared to men who have full heads of hair.

I see that you're brand-spankin' new around here, so let me fill you in on this:

What you've just said is what drives everyone here.

 

[I.D WALKER]

I see that you're brand-spankin' new around here, so let me fill you in on this:

What you've just said is what drives everyone here.

HairLossTalk.com Poster(s) Beware!

What drives us here is what drives us insane.

 

[Rudiger]

Just like with buckthorn's post, Fred had nothing to say in response so decided to hit the Dislike button and leave it at that. Buckthorn even asked for an explanation and clearly Fred has declined, so it's pointless in me asking the same.

 

[Armando Jose]

It's known from studies of identical twins that environmental factors such as body weight, smoking habits, alcohol habits, and so on correlate with male pattern baldness. It's not just genetics.

However, what's not measured is how strong these environmental factors are, and how exactly they function.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23629119
The contribution of endogenous and exogenous factors to male alopecia: a study of identical twins
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The purpose of this study was to investigate the potential contribution of environmental factors and testosterone on male alopecia.

METHODS:
Ninety-two identical male twins were recruited from 2009 to 2011. A comprehensive questionnaire was completed followed by the acquisition of sputum samples for testosterone analysis and standardized digital photography. Frontal, temporal, and vertex hair loss was assessed from these photographs. Hair loss was then correlated with survey responses and testosterone levels between twin pairs. Two independent, blinded observers also rated the photographs for hair thinning.

RESULTS:
Increased smoking duration (p < 0.001) and the presence of dandruff (p = 0.028) were significantly associated with increased frontal hair loss. Increased exercise duration (p = 0.002), consumption of more than four alcoholic drinks per week (p = 0.042), and increased money spent on hair loss products (p = 0.050) were all associated with increased temporal hair loss. Daily hat use (p = 0.050), higher body mass index (p = 0.012), and higher testosterone levels (p = 0.040) were associated with decreased temporal hair loss. Factors that were significantly associated with increased vertex hair loss included abstinence from alcohol consumption (p = 0.030), consumption of more than four alcoholic drinks per week (p = 0.004), increased smoking duration (p = 0.047), increased exercise duration (p = 0.050), and increased stress duration (p = 0.010). Lower body mass index, more children, increased caffeine consumption, history of skin disease, and abstinence from alcohol were significantly associated with increased hair thinning scores (p < 0.05).

CONCLUSION:
This study offers substantial evidence that exogenous factors may have a clinically significant impact on hair loss.

 

[Dante92]

Just like with buckthorn's post, Fred had nothing to say in response so decided to hit the Dislike button and leave it at that. Buckthorn even asked for an explanation and clearly Fred has declined, so it's pointless in me asking the same.

You and fred should really fight in a match, the forum's admins and moderators could act as the bookmakers, I'm sure all the users here would pay to attend and bet on the match. Then we could invest the money in hair loss treatment research.

 

[CopeForLife]

I have only one question.

From where the f*** did you get that "healthy" lifestyle should stop Androgenetic Alopecia but not accelerate it?

Balding is a NATURAL process and EVEN if lifestyle matters it can impact Androgenetic Alopecia in both ways either acceleration or slowdown.