Tinder 10/10 Male Experiment

[cocohot]

No, I absolutely hate going bald and have said so openly many times. Don't conflate rational with positive. It is a brutal affliction and the effects it has on your social life and sex life are very real. I also freely admit to spending a lot of time here and probably will continue to do so for as long as this problem remains. It is what I spend at least 50% of my time thinking of and I need a place to vent and channel my thoughts.

However, there's a huge difference between acknowledging the importance of looks for mating and social success, and the kind of insane genetics-based selection theories you subscribe to. One has a scientific basis and opens for the possibility of compensating through improving one's appearance and standing in life. The other has no scientific basis and leaves suicide as the only option. The amount of energy you channel into these warped mental pathways is hilarious and I take great joy in reading the products of it.

lol your previous post:

Yes, unfortunately that first part is true. Everyone is born with a base rate of success and for some that rate is so low that there's simply no way of compensating. Like you say, the best of course of action for these people is to accept that and center their lives around something else to give meaning, like proving the Riemann hypothesis or fighting climate change.

another post:

I would say a more correct way of putting it is that it's not always the end of the line, like some would have it. However, it might very well be depending on your other physical characteristics/life situation. If you are at the wrong end of the bell curve to begin with and it gets shifted several points to the left, you might just well and truly be ****ed.

Your attitude is healthier than most here and I agree with much of what you say. You need to edit your posts better and keep your temper in check though.

And I have never ever advocated suicide for anyone. That accusation is stepping over the line massively. I'll give you a chance to retract that.

Here you are recommending suicide as an option if it all seems hopeless:

For me, an important realization was that the effects the hair loss and its accompanying changes in appearance had on how people treated me were not just in my head or by-products of my confidence. Rather, they are hardwired responses that are largely outside any individual's control, like a law of gravity for my life quality. The more you to try to deny it the worse your life will be.

Knowing that, there is little to think about other than to maximize your physical attractiveness through any method possible, and if that fails to get you anywhere, possibly suicide. If you look better bald, shave it off. If you look better with a hair system, get a hair system. In the end, if 10% of women will give you a shot with a slick dome versus 5% with your current hair, you pick the first. The less you think about these soft issues of identity and such, the better.

You just contradict yourself all the time, even with your negative opening and then blasting me for negativity. Your posts are awful and you bring nothing but denial and personal attacks to this forum.

 

[FWIW]

One thing I found out with my presence here is that its pointless to argue on impact of hairloss with guys who are or will be max NW3 in their thirties let alone nw2s.

Its like recruit talking what is it like on battlefront.

 

[cocohot]

No. Some will be able to compensate, others will not. This is what I've said all along. There's no contradiction.

If baldness is the male menopause and women automatically select out bald men due to a genetically pre-programmed response to a marker of disease, what other logical option is there but suicide if one desires companionship? You don't actively advocate suicide but thats the logical endpoint of your line of thought.

It's the male menopause in men in their 40's and 50's. Those men should be with menopausal women their own age. For men in their twenties it's a disfigurement that makes you ugly like acne or something and you can for example concentrate on uglier women or women from a much lower social standing etc.

You are the only one who has recommended suicide for those who are "unable to compensate" as you put it in the first quote of this post:

For me, an important realization was that the effects the hair loss and its accompanying changes in appearance had on how people treated me were not just in my head or by-products of my confidence. Rather, they are hardwired responses that are largely outside any individual's control, like a law of gravity for my life quality. The more you to try to deny it the worse your life will be.

Knowing that, there is little to think about other than to maximize your physical attractiveness through any method possible, and if that fails to get you anywhere, possibly suicide. If you look better bald, shave it off. If you look better with a hair system, get a hair system. In the end, if 10% of women will give you a shot with a slick dome versus 5% with your current hair, you pick the first. The less you think about these soft issues of identity and such, the better.

Do not go around this forum accusing me of this, this forum is full of clinically depressed people who feel hopeless, not least myself, and that word could trigger something in them. Obviously. You idiot.

 

[winnyblues]

theplayers gonna play play play
haters gonan hate hate hate
im just gonna shake shakeshake

 

[Rudiger]

Do not go around this forum accusing me of this, this forum is full of clinically depressed people who feel hopeless, not least myself, and that word could trigger something in them. Obviously. You idiot.

Who are you fooling here?! Haha, so falsely self-righteous.

Yeah quit being insensitive to other people's feelings you ****ing idiot!

 

[cocohot]

Menopause is connected to fertility, which baldness is not. That the two coincide does not make them equal. You could reasonably make an argument that males not being attracted to older women is due to a genetic response, but the argument does not work the other way.

There is such a thing as peri-menopause where women are still fertile, but increasingly less so, and it lasts for 10-15 years. With men it simply lasts much longer.

Does the first part of your post mean that you've abandoned your previous theory that it's a marker of disease? Essentially this opens for the possibility of improving your appearance and social standing and generally doing things to compensate for the baldness. Which is consistent with the more well-adjusted theory that the impact of baldness comes from the change in overall appearance and not from some weird, simian disease-detecting algorithm.

It is a marker of disease, but so is a herpes sore on your lip. You lack critical thinking skills and this has led you to frankly stupid conclusions you arrive at on your own, which you then attribute to me and call me names.

These theories of yours are all kinds of warped and the product of a very depressed mind, like you imply. However, note that I'm sorry that I triggered you with that post and I hope you accept my apology for that.

You didn't trigger me, but for all you knew you could have, not to mention the other forum regulars, many of whom have said they are on anti depressants and are suicidal.

Frankly, looking through your posts like the ones I've quoted previously, you seem to have this on your mind and are "desperate" so to speak and you are looking for an "out" if your positivity and confidence doesn't have the magical effects you're hoping for. That's probably why you are so aggressive towards me too. So I'll say this: Even though you said you delight in my depression and misery, even I don't want to see you kill yourself. You're only an NW3, you're in your 30's. Calm down.

 

[cocohot]

It all makes sense now. Zircon had suicide on his mind judging by that post where he recommends it, and he thought I was telling him to kill himself when I said bald people are obviously uglier and will obviously have harder lives, and that's why he was lashing out at me.

Well, I hope that little misunderstanding was resolved. Pretty funny that you find my misery funny when you are just as miserable as all of the rest of us on this forum, you've admitted that too. My depression has nothing to do with women, it's an identity crisis based off the fact that I look like a totally 100% different person. I'm looking at a stranger in the mirror. I think that if I look different, have to behave differently, am treated differently and have a completely different life, am I even the same person anymore?

Anyway, I've always been competely open about these things because that's the whole point of this forum: "The Impact of Hairloss". If any of you try to throw them back in my face I'll just remind you that you post on this forum all day so you are just as depressed and obsessed as I am.

 

[cocohot]

FTR: I think this is a good place to end the argument so I'll refrain from responding further.

An argument you started by saying you delight in my misery and depression over baldness, even though you are literally on this forum all day.

Accused me of advocating suicide, which I never would, then I quoted posts where you advocated suicide yourself.

Showed you completely misunderstood my posts and were considering suicide over being an NW3 in his 30's, which is ridiculous.

Crawled away.

Have fun going bald! You deserve that.

But seriously for a minute, don't kill yourself for **** sake. You're only an NW3 in his 30's, that is completely normal. It isn't comparable to most on this forum at all. It isn't even a big deal.

edit:

lol look below. He has to have the last word! :jackit:

 

[blackg]

Today I will be posting at:

4:10am
4:50am
6:10am
7:23am
7:28am

And maybe even:

12:07pm

All times Australian Western Standard Time.

 

[Roberto_72]

I live in Belgrade

I was in Belgrade for work four years ago. I had never seen so many beautiful women in the same urban space. I felt like passing out at every corner.

 

[shookwun]

Game is irrelevant. This is 2016, get real.

The only merit game has for teaching purposes is that if you approach a women constantly, eventually you will find someone you're compatible with. Everything else is useless. What, and how you say something, won't change her mind if she's not physically invested into you in the first place.

What we can learn from game: Approach, approach, and approach and eventually a women who finds you physically handsome will give you a chance.


Nobody cares about what's within the book context unless the cover speaks volumes of attraction.

 

[Rudiger]

What, and how you say something, won't change her mind if she's not physically invested into you in the first place.

EDIT: tl;dr, just read the bold part.

Why do 90% of "realists" as you call yourself, have such binary thought patterns? Such tunnel vision.

I can still see where you're coming from with regards to not having a chance with a girl who doesn't fancy you, but what about a girl who sort of thinks you're attractive? Because life is a bit more complicated than girls who either want to bang you right there and then, or wouldn't touch you with a ten foot pole, there's a lot of variables in between these ultimate two opinions and I know you want things to be simple because it suits you but that's not reality. Lots of girls, just like guys, are malleable in their attraction, most people are along the average to fairly good looking scale, so that means it's all down to interpretation in that moment. Other things come into play, style, presence, even smell, practically anything can make small differences and improve your chances, and then obviously the most important thing after looks- how you talk to her.

Girls can go from thinking a guys somewhat cute but wouldn't bang, to giving their phone number. If you've only ever had experiences of easily pulling a girl, or getting absolutely nowhere, you're probably just **** at talking to them. I've had times where I've spent hours chatting to a girl who was eventually won around, maybe she initially felt she wasn't physically compatible at first, maybe she thought I was just trying to add another conquest, but this has happened plenty of times, I see my friends do it every weekend, some of them ugly, even short, and about half the time they get somewhere, half the time they don't. And when they don't, it's normally down to something they said wrong, they pushed the boat too far, joked wrongly, and made a wrong step instead of keeping her going, this is all very important stuff you don't understand. Either you can't keep up with that pursuit and lengthy effort at conversation, or you're too lazy to try.

And it's not just here in Ireland, this is how it goes everywhere, men have to put in that effort, this is world renowned common as ****. I don't know what the hell goes on with you and Fred and your friends but for the rest of the world- expect to have to talk to women a lot to get anywhere, only weird women jump into bed with strangers they've barely spoken to, and while I definitely always take up that offer, I'll never contact her again afterwards.

Well actually I do know what goes on with you and Fred, you blank out your personal experiences that don't coincide with your little theories on this forum. Fred's so good at it that I really think he actually believes his own bull**** at this stage, but I bet you regularly see guys chatting up women and having to work to get anywhere, with varying results depending on how they either succeeded or screw it up, and you just would never admit to seeing it.

OR, and this is even better- when you see them succeed, it's "because she was attracted to him anyway" and when he fails its "because she was never interested in him physically in the first place".

Now unlike you, or Fred, I am able to admit that there's more than one possibility, as in I acknowledge that a lot of the time it's simply down to attraction. If a girl is really into a guy she won't really care what he says as long as he talks, but please stop fooling yourself with this crap that it's 100% of the time completely reliant on physical attraction, it just looks foolish. Like I just wrote in that last paragraph, whatever the outcome you can just sit back and say it happened because of attraction, or didn't happen because of lack of attraction, even if you see a guy talking to a woman for 2 hours, and you don't know what they're talking about, she could be practically ignoring him for that first hour and couldn't care if he died, but when he ends up with her you'll just figure it was always going to happen anyway.

Just because you gave 2 pointless examples; you pulled a girl and it was easy, and your friend failed with a girl he never had a chance with- this doesn't mean that there aren't 10 times the amount of situations out there which are much more complicated, and much more dependant on compatibility on a personal and intellectual level.

I always agree that looks are definitely the most important thing, especially in a club or party scenario, but quit pretending it's the ONLY thing. Stop trying to impress a guy on here who is likely to be certifiably insane. Also I don't know what age you are, but as you go through your 20's you start to realise that women smarten up to the idea that looks get less and less important, from experiences of being screwed around by pretty guys, at the end of the day they'll still be more receptive to handsome guys, no doubt, but still more cautious as they get older. In that way, and trust me on, this, good looks can even work against you, it's like trying to convince a girl you're interested in her and not just ****ing her, her friend, then her sister, and a timid average looking guy would never have this issue.

 

[$illy $ymphony]

As someone rightly found that: nature is not about perfection; it is about sufficiency.
Know that many things in nature obey or appear gaussian (distributed).
So, yes, it is not always about looks.
However, if we compare odds, then looks; because one has to understand that in nature it is ensured that things work on the most basic of levels. Otherwise it would be difficult for a species to persist.

 

[Roberto_72]

quit pretending it's the ONLY thing.

I agree, and it's wise of you to remind this to the younger "hair-losers" among us. Good looks are not everything. Also because there is such a thing called taste: different women will like different men, luckily there is no such thing an Adonis whom every girl will like (and viceversa).

good looks can even work against you

For a long time, I would have agreed with you. Then something in my life happened that created some doubt... I'll tell you why.

One of my most important relationships was with a lady who said that the way I behaved allowed her to realize that I did not just want to have sex with her; that I was looking for something more, and this helped me get to know her better, and "conquer" her.

However, and quite paradoxically, the same woman, some time later, in her 30's, left me for a really good looking man, whom every girl in the company liked, even though he was considered not particularly bright (everyone talked about him as of the "male sex doll").

I am adult enough to understand I cannot relate any relationship based on that event, but man did it hurt like hell...

 

[jd_uk]

Reading the few posts above...this forum is such a depressing place. There's nothing wrong with a bit of 'reality' but it always goes beyond that on here. Any man who walks up to a girl with a 'i just hope she likes the way i look, there's nothing i can say, do, act to have a positive response from her' type of mindset just has no power at all. If that is how you truly think then the rejections are just going to become a self fulfilling prophecy unless you are some sort of male model.

 

[Rudiger]

As someone rightly found that: nature is not about perfection; it is about sufficiency.
Know that many things in nature obey or appear gaussian (distributed).
So, yes, it is not always about looks.
However, if we compare odds, then looks; because one has to understand that in nature it is ensured that things work on the most basic of levels. Otherwise it would be difficult for a species to persist.

Yes like I say, odds-wise, looks come out on top pretty much always, especially in a party "pick-up" atmosphere. If you're absolutely way off her type, you won't be given much of a chance. If you fall somewhere within her preference, she might not be super up for it, but you'll get a chance to talk at least, and go from there.

I agree, and it's wise of you to remind this to the younger "hair-losers" among us. Good looks are not everything. Also because there is such a thing called taste: different women will like different men, luckily there is no such thing an Adonis whom every girl will like (and viceversa).



For a long time, I would have agreed with you. Then something in my life happened that created some doubt... I'll tell you why.

One of my most important relationships was with a lady who said that the way I behaved allowed her to realize that I did not just want to have sex with her; that I was looking for something more, and this helped me get to know her better, and "conquer" her.

However, and quite paradoxically, the same woman, some time later, in her 30's, left me for a really good looking man, whom every girl in the company liked, even though he was considered not particularly bright (everyone talked about him as of the "male sex doll").

I am adult enough to understand I cannot relate any relationship based on that event, but man did it hurt like hell...

Waaait wait wait. First of all, I'm sorry to hear about that, that sucks.

But secondly, in no way am I saying looks mainly work against men, absolutely not, but in certain circumstances it does actually happen, it's just rather rare. Absolutely the hot guy will pull more woman than the average or ugly dude, that's a no-brainer. But even a moment ago when I was talking about "types", the total male model type who 99% of women get wet over, some women (not many) would still be cautious around him, because even good looks bring prejudice, eg he's a player, he loves himself, he's an airhead etc

But no, to be absolutely clear, I'm not saying at all that being a hot man is mainly a disadvantage, I was just saying that there is no black and white in life, clear cut and simple situations are a rarity, people are complex creatures and we constantly develop complex situations and opinions for ourselves, and opinions on hot people may be clear cut for 90% of us, but sometimes we invent ways that it can be a negative thing- and this can often be justified as well- most hot guys picking up women ARE players. From there it depends if the woman cares anyway, as a lot don't, and if she does care about being ****ed and dumped, does she care enough to not bang the hot guy? So between girls who wouldn't care and girls who would care but **** him anyway, we're left with a minority of women who actually would be hesitant. Then there's hot girls who can bang any hot guy they want, they don't need to value him as much, and therefore if they do care about being "played" they'll need some re-assurance.

So this is all I'm saying- it gets more complicated than how we would initially perceive things.

Reading the few posts above...this forum is such a depressing place. There's nothing wrong with a bit of 'reality' but it always goes beyond that on here. Any man who walks up to a girl with a 'i just hope she likes the way i look, there's nothing i can say, do, act to have a positive response from her' type of mindset just has no power at all. If that is how you truly think then the rejections are just going to become a self fulfilling prophecy unless you are some sort of male model.

I thought the 2 posts above you were quite balanced? They both said that looks are a big factor, I don't think they said it's the only thing that matters.

Unless you're including myself as well in being "depressing", but if you think personality is hugely important I would just simply disagree. Fine if you think personality is regularly more important than looks in most situations, but I would say it's rare that personality overshadows appearance. However I still respect your opinion, especially in comparison with those who think personality is not even one iota of relevance to forming even a casual relationship.

In fact I barely count that as an opinion, it's just another attempt at depression peddling from the same guys as always. I don't think anyone can genuinely believe that personality is of absolutely no value whatsoever.

 

[Rudiger]

And the reason is probably... my tight game, right? Ah this never gets old.

It really does get old, sigh, here we go again.

Just like I told shooks like 10 seconds ago, just because you have a situation where looks are the only factor, why does that negate the possibility that there's other situations where personality is a factor? ANSWER: It doesn't.

You've only either experienced pulling a girl from basic meaningless chat but she was still attracted to you, or you've gotten rejected from basic meaningless chat, because the strength of attraction didn't compensate for it. If there is such a thing as "tight game", you have no idea what it is, so you simply can't comment on even your own experiences of using personality to attract women, because by your own admission, you've got none! Ouch.

OK I won't say you don't have personality, but you've admitted you don't apply it, you don't even try, so what do you know then?

 

[kmm179]

Yeah dating and attraction is not so cut and dry. Everyones view of what they are looking for is constantly changing based on whats going on in there life.

Also shook the idea of approach I think in that scenario is about getting better at talking to and to build conversation skills. Not just a probability thing that eventually someone will think your good looking.

 

[cocohot]

Hey, I'm a cool guy, girls seem to have a great time with me, every time. But it doesn't matter if they're not that attracted to me.

What shookwun said. It's all good to be funny and interesting, but if the girl is not interested (he's too short/bald/ugly), it won't help you.

Maybe it helps you against other men she has eyes on, but even then, I can't be sure, I still think the most good-looking guy always wins.

I think personality in general is worth maybe half a point for superficial short term stuff, and way more points for longer term relationships.

 

[Rudiger]

Fred, firstly I'd like to genuinely say thank you for not providing the cheap dig that I'm only peddling the idea of personality because I want to believe in it- I was literally waiting to read the same ol **** again.

Besides, if anything I'd be delighted if it was 100% looks, if women simply went for me over all the guys who look worse, I'd never have to get into lengthy conversations trying to be funny. I don't even care if this is arrogant, but most of the time in any bar or club, from a brief look around, I'm only bettered by a few guys maybe, so fine they can have the only 10/10 in the place, I'll take 2nd or 3rd best if it's easy. I mean sometimes it is as easy as a girl staring, but not always.

Anyway

Hey, I'm a cool guy, girls seem to have a great time with me, every time.

OK well, how do you possibly know if a girl likes you because she's attracted to you, or because of your personality? Or a mixture of both?

For all you know this tinder girl thought you're a 6/10 she'd take a chance on, but you made her laugh and seem like a decent guy, now you're an 8.5 in her eyes.

What shookwun said. It's all good to be funny and interesting, but if the girl is not interested (he's too short/bald/ugly), it won't help you.

This is really besides the point, because it's a really obvious statement that I had no interest in getting into.

OK fine, well let's say the short/bald/ugly guy lowers his standards appropriately, and he tries talking to an equally matched 3/10 girl, is she going to instantly think "oh, we're about matched attraction wise, I guess I'll **** him" or, more realistically, is she going to talk to him, see what he's like, and go from there?

He's got some work to do.

The scenario you're talking about is a hobbit trying to pick up a 9/10 stunner, yes that's a very deliberately easy scenario to shoot the idea of personality into the sky, however it gets tougher when you apply your theory to real life, in which most average guys go for average girls, ugly guys for ugly girls, and attractive guys for attractive girls, and what happens from there?

They still need to talk.

- - - Updated - - -

Further on that point about tinder girl:

Well the girl (from Tinder to stay on topic) who I thought was out of my league wants to see me again. I should really stop seeing myself in
such a dark light.

So let me get this straight, you thought physically she was out of your league, you went on a date with her, chatted with her etc. and now to your surprise she's interested in a second date?

You just said they always have a great time with you, so she had a great time as well, and for absolutely no reason, you just assume she likes you because of how you look? Do you think there's a chance you just like being good looking and value that over having a good personality?