Topical Dutasteride Case Assessment Thread

[corkmeister]

View attachment 147500

tried both of these, both are giving sides. Fina was manable, even shortly after needling, but too weak to maintain on while duta is giving far worse sides (strong headaches, clouding of consciousness, weak libido). Not really surprising when you're supressing large amount of dht in different types of tissues. I will try to ride out the sides on the dutasteride for a month or two but after that i'm done with it if my body haven't manage to compensate. In my opinion, AR agonists like ru or oh-flut is far more superior then these two drugs maintaining the hairline and temples.

The idea of applying 25mg of finasteride (and that's assuming you only used 1ml) after needling is incomprehensible to me, unless you were deliberately trying to nuke as much dht from your entire body as possible. What was your reasoning behind this? And how often did you do it?

 

[whatevr]

The idea of applying 25mg of finasteride (and that's assuming you only used 1ml) after needling is incomprehensible to me, unless you were deliberately trying to nuke as much dht from your entire body as possible. What was your reasoning behind this? And how often did you do it?

The better question is why the f*** do they compound it as 2,5% and even dutasteride as 1%? Seems ungodly high.

 

[Xander94]

The better question is why the f*** do they compound it as 2,5% and even dutasteride as 1%? Seems ungodly high.

it doesnt penetrate well, even minoxidil has 1-2% penetration and its much much lighter than dutasteride.

 

[Canuto]

it doesnt penetrate well, even minoxidil has 1-2% penetration and its much much lighter than dutasteride.

It does penetrate pretty good from what we have seen from the data in the discord channel. Even with just Trichosol, without liposomes.

 

[whatevr]

it doesnt penetrate well, even minoxidil has 1-2% penetration and its much much lighter than dutasteride.

That 500 dalton bullshit is a meme at this point. Everyone here is obsessed with "penetration", what they really should be obsessed with is scalp retention.

 

[corkmeister]

That 500 dalton bullshit is a meme at this point. Everyone here is obsessed with "penetration", what they really should be obsessed with is scalp retention.

Hitting the nail on the head. For this to work, the drug's effect in the scalp has to be more pronounced in terms of duration. Applying it weekly may avoid side-effects, but if 5-alpha-reductase sufficiently replenishes after two or three days, then applying it at such a low frequency is basically pointless.

 

[Canuto]

That 500 dalton bullshit is a meme at this point. Everyone here is obsessed with "penetration", what they really should be obsessed with is scalp retention.

I seriously don't know why people keep wondering about absorption of topical dutasteride at this stage. It's like at 499 Dalton everythjng gets absorbed fine and then suddenly at 501 nothing pass through anymore.

 

[Xander94]

I seriously don't know why people keep wondering about absorption of topical dutasteride at this stage. It's like at 499 Dalton everythjng gets absorbed fine and then suddenly at 501 nothing pass through anymore.

Yea I'm not saying that nothing penetrates. Im saying it should be 1% or even less. Igot no data tho

 

[sonictemples]

Don't believe people who say iT DoEsNt aBsOrB bro, once it's in the DP it will go systemic to a degree. That's why we believe in science and not Tinker Bell fairytales

 

[Xander94]

Don't believe people who say iT DoEsNt aBsOrB bro, once it's in the DP it will go systemic to a degree. That's why we believe in science and not Tinker Bell fairytales

this is what the science says about minoxidil, now minoxidil has much much sorter half life, so accumulation could happen with dutasteride at high doses

 

[corkmeister]

Yea I'm not saying that nothing penetrates. Im saying it should be 1% or even less. Igot no data tho

If you have no data, then how are you concluding it should be 1% or less? Not calling you out, just curious. I don't think you can just take data on minoxidil and apply it to dutasteride. If that were true, you should be able to do the same for topical finasteride, and we know pretty well that way more than 1% of that goes systemic.

 

[Xander94]

If you have no data, then how are you concluding it should be 1% or less? Not calling you out, just curious. I don't think you can just take data on minoxidil and apply it to dutasteride. If that were true, you should be able to do the same for topical finasteride, and we know pretty well that way more than 1% of that goes systemic.

How do we know that ? I havent seen a single study measuring serum finasteride levels only dht levels.

 

[corkmeister]

How do we know that ? I havent seen a single study measuring serum finasteride levels only dht levels.

Because dht-levels are at the very least an indicator of how much finasteride is reaching the bloodstream. The Polichem studies show that a single application of topical finasteride 0.25% results in a 20% or so reduction in serum dht, and that's with a special vehicle. To me that suggests that more than 1% is going systemic.

Anecdotally, plenty of people have tried Mazzarella's dosage (0.01% / 0.1mg daily) and ended up with reduced serum dht and/or side-effects. That doesn't conform at all to the idea that only 1% of the drug goes systemic.

 

[Xander94]

Because dht-levels are at the very least an indicator of how much finasteride is reaching the bloodstream. The Polichem studies show that a single application of topical finasteride 0.25% results in a 20% or so reduction in serum dht, and that's with a special vehicle. To me that suggests that more than 1% is going systemic.

Anecdotally, plenty of people have tried Mazzarella's dosage (0.01% / 0.1mg daily) and ended up with reduced serum dht and/or side-effects. That doesn't conform at all to the idea that only 1% of the drug goes systemic.

Remember that dht levels can naturally fluctuate. And i dont accept anecdotal people talk being as strong evidence as the minoxidil studies.

 

[corkmeister]

Remember that dht levels can naturally fluctuate. And i dont accept anecdotal people talk being as strong evidence as the minoxidil studies.

If you're arguing that the 20% reduction may just be a natural fluctation: In both treatment groups, blood samples were collected at pre-dose (0 h) and 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20, and 24 hours after the first single dose. Even then, I could use the data on multiple-dose to argue my point. The Polichem studies show that 0.6825 mg daily for a week results in around 44% serum dht reduction. You're saying that only 1% of that (0.006825mg) went systemic per day, resulting in a reduction of that magnitude after only a week. Aside from that, I see no reason to disregard the countless stories of people trying topical finasteride at relatively low doses and ending up with side-effects. I don't see how a study on minoxidil changes any of that.

I'm not saying dutasteride and finasteride are the same in terms of absorption. I'm saying your direct comparison to data on minoxidil is flawed. If you believe the minoxidil studies give you a good indication as to what % of dutasteride goes systemic, then you should be quite confident in applying large amounts of dutasteride daily. You may turn out to be right, I have no idea honestly. But I don't think that minoxidil study itself is enough to come to that conclusion.

 

[Xander94]

If you're arguing that the 20% reduction may just be a natural fluctation: In both treatment groups, blood samples were collected at pre-dose (0 h) and 0.5, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20, and 24 hours after the first single dose. Even then, I could use the data on multiple-dose to argue my point. The Polichem studies show that 0.6825 mg daily for a week results in around 44% serum dht reduction. You're saying that only 1% of that (0.006825mg) went systemic per day, resulting in a reduction of that magnitude after only a week. Aside from that, I see no reason to disregard the countless stories of people trying topical finasteride at relatively low doses and ending up with side-effects. I don't see how a study on minoxidil changes any of that.

I'm not saying dutasteride and finasteride are the same in terms of absorption. I'm saying your direct comparison to data on minoxidil is flawed. If you believe the minoxidil studies give you a good indication as to what % of dutasteride goes systemic, then you should be quite confident in applying large amounts of dutasteride daily. You may turn out to be right, I have no idea honestly. But I don't think that minoxidil study itself is enough to come to that conclusion.

Oh ofcourse im not arguing about everyday will definetely result in accumulation and too much going systemic causing the same reduction as oral.

I was just talking about small doses 1 per week.

 

[js0677]

Looking to sell my 3rd bottle of liposomal dutasteride - 1% from Farmacia Parati, expires 01/21. I'm starting to lose ground on my hair line and I think it's because I've stopped minoxidil and want to start it up again. My crown is still in decent shape though but, my main problem has always been a receding hairline. PM me if interested, thanks.

 

[Mustang]

Looking to sell my 3rd bottle of liposomal dutasteride - 1% from Farmacia Parati, expires 01/21. I'm starting to lose ground on my hair line and I think it's because I've stopped minoxidil and want to start it up again. My crown is still in decent shape though but, my main problem has always been a receding hairline. PM me if interested, thanks.

I don't think topical dutasteride will do anything for your hairline.

 

[Mustang]

Hitting the nail on the head. For this to work, the drug's effect in the scalp has to be more pronounced in terms of duration. Applying it weekly may avoid side-effects, but if 5-alpha-reductase sufficiently replenishes after two or three days, then applying it at such a low frequency is basically pointless.

No it doesn't.

Tell that to my scalp. Completely halted my hair loss and complete crown regrowth.

Pointless indeed.

 

[Mustang]

Are you bipolar?

View attachment 147500

tried both of these, both are giving sides. Fina was manable, even shortly after needling, but too weak to maintain on while duta is giving far worse sides (strong headaches, clouding of consciousness, weak libido). Not really surprising when you're supressing large amount of dht in different types of tissues. I will try to ride out the sides on the dutasteride for a month or two but after that i'm done with it if my body haven't manage to compensate. In my opinion, AR agonists like ru or oh-flut is far more superior then these two drugs maintaining the hairline and temples.

Needling?