Update: Insuline Resistance and Hairloss

[kehcorpz]

I looked at the front page, this study was never published and from 1930. They did not even have the technology back then to test for brain injury which is the most impacted area of ketosis. They also did not test liver function. And there are also many scientist that have linked sodium to insulin resistance rather than carbohydrates. A growing body of evidence on this subject.

Once again I'm not disputing whether a human can survive in these conditions. We are very resilient. We can survive with nothing but water for long periods of time. Our bodies produce most vitamins required given some basic material for production. They are not optimal conditions for health though. It is not a coincidence that the human body stores glycogen in muscles and liver. It is the best source of fuel for us. We, however, evolved to store fat because there were periods of time when food was scarce especially during winter. Our bodies then would convert to using fat stores as a source of energy.

I'm stating that life expectancy of people on these diets is much lower and they have more health issues. You can find this information on inuits via Canada's census/statistics pages.

The point is it will not help your hair. I can guarantee it. When I was heavily into bodybuilding I did a ketogenic diet in order to strip down to 4% body fat. I lost a big load of hair during that time. I was also not very mentally alert. The mental alertness could vary based on ancestral type. I'm sure you can find many people complaining of hair loss while on this diet on various forums. Bodybuilding forums are known for this complaint. This is purely anecdotal but it's out there. Now this hair will more than likely grow back as it could be a telogen effluvium of sorts. It grew back for me when I started on carbs again.

I don't know your hair situation. But don't be hopeful that being on a ketogenic diet will save your hair. If insulin resistance was the cause you would lose hair everywhere. This is definitely a result of your sebaceous glands genetically predispositioned to having more dht receptors. I'm sure DHT is not the only factor but so far science has proven that it is a factor. Science has also proven that taking propecia will help it. So why postpone? Real science shows the side effects are rare. Your ketogenic diet is not a breakthrough in hairloss. People have been trying every cure known to snake oil salesmen and yet a huge population is still bald.

 

[2020]

Wrong. By this logic, any westerner or diabetic who had a predisposition to baldness could possibly slow down or even prevent that loss by following a more biologically appropriate non insulogenic diet.

I would say 90%+ of population has a predisposition to baldness... why aren't they losing hair??

Come on man, this is all genetics. My diet and lifestyle is 100x worse than the person's of whom I inherited this baldness gene and yet I started to bald at right around the same time as that person did.... Explain that

 

[kehcorpz]

Wrong. By this logic, any westerner or diabetic who had a predisposition to baldness could possibly slow down or even prevent that loss by following a more biologically appropriate non insulogenic diet.

I would say 90%+ of population has a predisposition to baldness... why aren't they losing hair??

Come on man, this is all genetics. My diet and lifestyle is 100x worse than the person's of whom I inherited this baldness gene and yet I started to bald at right around the same time as that person did.... Explain that

He's in denial. A lot of people who are balding are. I mean comb overs seem to be around no matter how horrible they look. Before you know it he will see all his hair is gone and regret not taking real action. I can't blame him. I was trying natural cures for years before I accepted that the little research surrounding these products is of no value and I need to take action. I am glad I did because I'm seeing great results from propecia.

 

[squeegee]

Androgenetic alopecia and insulin resistance in young men.
González-González JG, Mancillas-Adame LG, Fernández-Reyes M, Gómez-Flores M, Lavalle-González FJ, Ocampo-Candiani J, Villarreal-Pérez JZ.
Source

Servicio de Endocrinologia, Dr Jose Eleuterio Gonzalez University Hospital, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Autonoma de Nuevo Leon, Ave. Madero y Gonzalitos S/N, Monterrey, Mexico. jgonzalezg@fm.uanl.mx
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Epidemiological studies have associated androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) with severe young-age coronary artery disease and hypertension, and linked it to insulin resistance. We carried out a case-control study in age- and weight-matched young males to study the link between Androgenetic Alopecia and insulin resistance using the homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance (HOMA-IR) index or metabolic syndrome clinical manifestations.
METHODS:

Eighty young males, 18-35 years old, with Androgenetic Alopecia > or = stage III in the Hamilton-Norwood classification, and 80 weight- and age-matched controls were included. Alopecia, glucose, serum insulin, HOMA-IR index, lipid profile and androgen levels, as well as metabolic syndrome criteria, were evaluated.
RESULTS:

The HOMA-IR index was significantly higher in cases than controls. Nonobese cases had a higher mean diastolic blood pressure and a more frequent family history of Androgenetic Alopecia than nonobese controls. A borderline difference in the HOMA-IR index was found in obese Androgenetic Alopecia cases vs. obese controls [P = 0.055, 95% confidence interval (CI) 2.36-4.20 vs. 1.75-2.73]. Free testosterone values were significantly higher in controls than cases, regardless of body mass index (BMI). A statistically significant additive effect for obesity plus alopecia was found, with significant trends for insulin, the HOMA-IR index, lipids and free testosterone when BMI and alopecia status were used to classify the participants.
CONCLUSIONS:

Our results support the recommendation for assessing insulin resistance and cardiovascular-related features and disorders in all young males with stage III or higher Androgenetic Alopecia, according to the Hamilton-Norwood classification.

Androgenetic alopecia and insulin resistance in young men.
González-González JG, Mancillas-Adame LG, Fernández-Reyes M, Gómez-Flores M, Lavalle-González FJ, Ocampo-Candiani J, Villarreal-Pérez JZ.
Source

Servicio de Endocrinologia, Dr Jose Eleuterio Gonzalez University Hospital, Facultad de Medicina, Universidad Autonoma de Nuevo Leon, Ave. Madero y Gonzalitos S/N, Monterrey, Mexico. jgonzalezg@fm.uanl.mx
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Epidemiological studies have associated androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) with severe young-age coronary artery disease and hypertension, and linked it to insulin resistance. We carried out a case-control study in age- and weight-matched young males to study the link between Androgenetic Alopecia and insulin resistance using the homeostasis model assessment of insulin resistance (HOMA-IR) index or metabolic syndrome clinical manifestations.
METHODS:

Eighty young males, 18-35 years old, with Androgenetic Alopecia > or = stage III in the Hamilton-Norwood classification, and 80 weight- and age-matched controls were included. Alopecia, glucose, serum insulin, HOMA-IR index, lipid profile and androgen levels, as well as metabolic syndrome criteria, were evaluated.
RESULTS:

The HOMA-IR index was significantly higher in cases than controls. Nonobese cases had a higher mean diastolic blood pressure and a more frequent family history of Androgenetic Alopecia than nonobese controls. A borderline difference in the HOMA-IR index was found in obese Androgenetic Alopecia cases vs. obese controls [P = 0.055, 95% confidence interval (CI) 2.36-4.20 vs. 1.75-2.73]. Free testosterone values were significantly higher in controls than cases, regardless of body mass index (BMI). A statistically significant additive effect for obesity plus alopecia was found, with significant trends for insulin, the HOMA-IR index, lipids and free testosterone when BMI and alopecia status were used to classify the participants.
CONCLUSIONS:

Our results support the recommendation for assessing insulin resistance and cardiovascular-related features and disorders in all young males with stage III or higher Androgenetic Alopecia, according to the Hamilton-Norwood classification.

PMID:
19094069
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Lancet. 2000 Sep 30;356(9236):1165-6 “Early androgenetic alopecia as a marker of insulin resistanceâ€￾

-::- Note: The below is published here for archival purposes -::-

Lancet. 2000 Sep 30;356(9236):1165-6.

Early androgenetic alopecia as a marker of insulin resistance.

Matilainen V, Koskela P, Keinänen-Kiukaanniemi S.

Abstract

The previously proven association between androgenetic, alopecia and serious cardiovascular events raises a question of the common pathogenetic mechanism of these disorders. Our practice-based case-control study in men aged 19-50 years showed a strikingly increased risk of hyperinsulinaemia and insulin-resistance-associated disorders such as obesity, hypertension, and dyslipidemia in men with early onset of alopecia (<35), compared with age-matched controls.

This finding supports the hypothesis that early androgenetic alopecia could be a clinical marker of insulin resistance.

 

[squeegee]

this thread is BS.... by your logic, every diabetic or really, every "westerner" would lose hair....

We all humans but all have different metabolism. Some people have better tolerance than others with glycation and insulin resistance. Your logic and correlation is again stupid. It is like a non cigarette smoker having lungs cancer... We linked everything to genetic because we still don't know everything about human biology.

 

[powersam]

Wrong. By this logic, any westerner or diabetic who had a predisposition to baldness could possibly slow down or even prevent that loss by following a more biologically appropriate non insulogenic diet.

I would say 90%+ of population has a predisposition to baldness... why aren't they losing hair??

It probably is something like 90% for any hair loss at all over a life time, but it is a much smaller percentage if we're talking about those who start losing their hair before 30, which is the more important number.

NB. I did not realise that my sig only said nizoral and the Paleo diet. I am also on AHK-CU and a potent topical anti-androgen.

There is a growing body of evidence showing a link between insulin resistance and hair loss. Someone with a 'background' in biochemistry should be interested in exploring it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

BTW ketosis and ketoacidosis are two different things.

 

[kehcorpz]

Wrong. By this logic, any westerner or diabetic who had a predisposition to baldness could possibly slow down or even prevent that loss by following a more biologically appropriate non insulogenic diet.

I would say 90%+ of population has a predisposition to baldness... why aren't they losing hair??

It probably is something like 90% for any hair loss at all over a life time, but it is a much smaller percentage if we're talking about those who start losing their hair before 30, which is the more important number.

NB. I did not realise that my sig only said nizoral and the Paleo diet. I am also on AHK-CU and a potent topical anti-androgen.

There is a growing body of evidence showing a link between insulin resistance and hair loss. Someone with a 'background' in biochemistry should be interested in exploring it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

BTW ketosis and ketoacidosis are two different things.

I never said they are the same thing. Simply that elevated ketones for a long period of time may result in ketoacidosis and a lot of times it can especially with other stresses on your renal system and liver. This is a big problem with diabetics and yet people advocate the diet as if it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Epidemiological studies are often useless if they have a small test group such as the studies posted. They are there to find patterns but really if you look at North America and their over consumption of sugars/sodium then you will likely get a lot of people with insulin resistance who are also bald. Greek diets for example are not very carb centric and there is a high rate of balding in such a country. The carbs they do eat are low glycemic and have a low insulin response.

Anyways, I can tell you straight up that I have been a health nut all my life. I have the perfect health profile but I was pretty badly thinned out about a year ago. The front was almost completely gone. Propecia has restored most of it as I caught it early and right now it's growing at an alarming rate so I think judging by the growth I will be back to what I had 5 years ago.

Insulin resistance may be a factor in speeding up the process of balding, sure. I doubt it's enough to make a big difference. I'm not against trying to maintain health but you're going from one extreme to the other. There are many companies dedicating a lot of money to hair research. We all know that Merck became a very rich company when they released propecia. Whoever does invent the cure will be swimming in money. I'm sure 10 years from now something that is better than propecia will come out but the cure will be hard. I mean to truly cure it they would need to map out DNA. That's where all the orders are received to create all your lovely enzymes, receptors, you name it. And even splice variants of RNA can be targeted but all this is in a far distant future. You can keep healthy sure but accept that such simple notions will not be the cure for your problem. If that was the case Merck wouldn't be as rich as they are

 

[powersam]

I never said they are the same thing. Simply that elevated ketones for a long period of time may result in ketoacidosis and a lot of times it can especially with other stresses on your renal system and liver. This is a big problem with diabetics and yet people advocate the diet as if it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Post the evidence.

 

[2020]

There is a growing body of evidence showing a link between insulin resistance and hair loss

^ theory like that, would need EXACTLY ONE counterexample to bust it.

Do I really need to post a picture of someone with perfect insulin resistance who went bald nevertheless? :whistle:

 

[kehcorpz]

I never said they are the same thing. Simply that elevated ketones for a long period of time may result in ketoacidosis and a lot of times it can especially with other stresses on your renal system and liver. This is a big problem with diabetics and yet people advocate the diet as if it's the best thing since sliced bread.

Post the evidence.

Sigh I posted one study showing brain injury risks. I don't care for surfing studies right now to be honest. It is known that people with diabetes can develop ketoacidosis as a result of ketone bodies. I thought it was common knowledge *shrug*. Granted It's usually only during times of decreased renal function, liver function etc, during sickness and such, but it happens. Why would I put myself at risk for something like that. Anyways google it You're still obsessing over this diet thing when you haven't posted any evidence that proper insulin levels will keep the hair on your head. And not a useless epidemiological study that means nothing(sorry squeegee, get on propecia ). You know the kind that Merck and the FDA do. The ones that matter.

 

[kehcorpz]

Wrong. By this logic, any westerner or diabetic who had a predisposition to baldness could possibly slow down or even prevent that loss by following a more biologically appropriate non insulogenic diet.

I would say 90%+ of population has a predisposition to baldness... why aren't they losing hair??

It probably is something like 90% for any hair loss at all over a life time, but it is a much smaller percentage if we're talking about those who start losing their hair before 30, which is the more important number.

NB. I did not realise that my sig only said nizoral and the Paleo diet. I am also on AHK-CU and a potent topical anti-androgen.

There is a growing body of evidence showing a link between insulin resistance and hair loss. Someone with a 'background' in biochemistry should be interested in exploring it rather than dismissing it out of hand.

BTW ketosis and ketoacidosis are two different things.

Well biochem was my minor. My major was computer science and I pretty much focus all my efforts on programming and such and I do keep up with studies but give me a break there's so much stuff out there. I mean i have rss feeds to science sites and they find links with everything. You know how many things are carcinogens? Gee I should have cancer by now.

 

[powersam]

From a tech guy - http://twit.tv/show/twit-live-specials/124

 

[kehcorpz]

Heh interesting watch.

I don't disagree that cookies, cakes, white breads are bad. However, carbohydrates were a staple of prehistoric people. In fact bees were around 100 million years ago producing honey. Fruits existed as well. My carbohydrate intake is usually honey, fruits, buckwheat(which is a fruit) and occasionally some whole grain pastas. I mean we know egyptians were eating breads and such, it's not such a new concept.

He talks about our bodies not evolving for this food yet he does 60 minutes on a stair climber. Our bodies never evolved for long periods of endurance work but quick and fast spurts which allowed to hunt and evade predators. This is why people who jog are skinny and sprinters are always muscular. Jogging causes the body to strip away muscle while sprinting does the opposite by flooding the cells with lactic acid and boosting growth hormone.

He can do this type of diet but it isn't going to make the head on his hair grow. I just don't get why people who haven't tried propecia are so anti-propecia and hope for some other baldness cure.

Say they do find some link with insulin and baldness and Merck releases a drug that cures it. But one of the side effects that could occur in some people is it depletes Nitric Oxide and makes your penis limper than a noodle. These people will be back here looking for yet another cure hehe.

 

[powersam]

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-diets/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-iii/

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-ii/

 

[2020]

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-diets/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-iii/

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians-part-ii/

yes yes our modern diet is terrible, but that has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with genetic pattern loss....

 

[kehcorpz]

All these posts mean nothing. Accept that we are an organism meant to adapt and survive natural selection. Prehistoric people didn't use computers either, so you shouldn't sit in your chair all day and use it because it will cause the hair on your head to fall out.

Maybe you will eat nothing but bananas because well we evolved from monkeys. But.... banana's have carbohydrates in them! whaaaaa :woot: ?


Here's the final summary on this thread.

*Eating a healthy diet is always beneficial but it will not stop your genetic hairloss.
*Do not follow fads on the internet that have no backing other than opinion. Rather than go to an extreme control your intake of foods that are high on the insulin index rating and high glycemic. You may live longer
*Take propecia as it is one of the most studied and proven methods of hair regrowth, regardless of if you like ice cream and donuts.

 

[2020]

All these posts mean nothing. Accept that we are an organism meant to adapt and survive natural selection. Prehistoric people didn't use computers either, so you shouldn't sit in your chair all day and use it because it will cause the hair on your head to fall out.

Maybe you will eat nothing but bananas because well we evolved from monkeys. But.... banana's have carbohydrates in them! whaaaaa :woot: ?


Here's the final summary on this thread.

*Eating a healthy diet is always beneficial but it will not stop your genetic hairloss.
*Do not follow fads on the internet that have no backing other than opinion. Rather than go to an extreme control your intake of foods that are high on the insulin index rating and high glycemic. You may live longer
*Take propecia as it is one of the most studied and proven methods of hair regrowth, regardless of if you like ice cream and donuts.

^ this.

END OF THREAD.

 

[powersam]

Here's the final summary on this thread.

You are a prime example of when a little bit of knowledge is worse than none.

 

[squeegee]

The insulin sequence is:

Elevated insulin---increased delta desaturase enzymes---increased conversion of omega 6 fatty acids to arachidonic acid--increased prostaglandin 2's--increased production of cytokines--increased inflammatory response throughout the entire body.

 

[kehcorpz]

Here's the final summary on this thread.

You are a prime example of when a little bit of knowledge is worse than none.

So my knowledge is worse than you having none. I hear yah.

You posted links from Eades, a disgraced doctor in the medical community. This goes for Dr. Mercola, Dr. Oz(Although he's not as bad), Dr. Tullio Simoncini, etc. The list is large. These doctors try to make money by selling books or products to poor saps like you.

I never disagreed about insulin resistance and modern diets being bad. I disagree with your paleo theories based on fallacies. I also disagree that this will cause male pattern hairloss, which is what most people in here are suffering. Propecia is proof of science, there's MILLIONS of people on it that are doing fine.

Read this book review from Marleze Zuke who is an evolutionary biologist. Then pick it up if you're interested. It will disprove all your quackery with your paleo diet. The internet is full of quackery. People think they can cure all their ailments with magic.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... -medicine/

Look at this entire thread and note you have made no arguments for your theory. You've posted some video blog of some skinny neurotic idiot yapping about how amazing his diet is. You've posted blogs from disgraced doctors. Old studies from the 30s that do not test all factors. Epidemiologic studies which are never used in science as proof.

While Insulin resistance causes health issues which may contribute to slightly more hair loss. Ketogenic diets will not fix Male Pattern Baldness.

Another good quack, Dr. Miller. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... -get-thin/

He relies on epidemiologic data and evolutionary arguments to show that dietary fat is good

sounds familiar?

Yah..

The majority of the studies posted on these forums are by hopeful people who can't accept real science and get on Propecia.

I laugh at how you try to make yourself sound smart on these forums.

Anyways, this is my last post in here. You guys must be kids living in your parents basements.