Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[HairOnTheEdge]

Makes it very hard for me to justify use on the face, I look retarded since two days lol.

Yeah it's been a bit over two days and I still have redness on the scalp and face. I don't have hair to brush over the red scalp so it looks ridiculous. I'll do my face every two weeks but I don't want to do that for my scalp. I'll need to figure something out to help with this because it does look ridiculous lol.

@Bill_Russo We will need to keep tabs on each other. I think we are among the few who are doing needling without min/finasteride.

 

[Bill_Russo]

Yeah it's been a bit over two days and I still have redness on the scalp and face. I don't have hair to brush over the red scalp so it looks ridiculous. I'll do my face every two weeks but I don't want to do that for my scalp. I'll need to figure something out to help with this because it does look ridiculous lol.

@Bill_Russo We will need to keep tabs on each other. I think we are among the few who are doing needling without min/finasteride.

Indeed! Are you following the Indian study?
Also, depending on the depth, it is recommended to do the face once a month.

 

[kiwi666]

I don't know, I'm still very sceptical. I keep imagining things like, in reality they are all taking finasteride, or they are paid by a cartel of electrodynamic needling devices cartel. I still have this feeling it will not work on me. I will only fully believe it works if hair regrows on my own head.

So shut up and do it bro

Like so many of us suffering humans here including myself!!!

 

[HairOnTheEdge]

Indeed! Are you following the Indian study?
Also, depending on the depth, it is recommended to do the face once a month.

I just started Sunday doing 2mm with derminator. Thanks for the heads up about the face I'll do 1mm once a month. My goal is to go for six months. If I see any kind of result I'll continue otherwise I'll start throwing something into the mix.

 

[Bill_Russo]

I just started Sunday doing 2mm with derminator. Thanks for the heads up about the face I'll do 1mm once a month. My goal is to go for six months. If I see any kind of result I'll continue otherwise I'll start throwing something into the mix.

So it's the Chinese study, then? Or just doing it your own way?
I'll be doing 2 mm twice a month with a stamp. At most, I'll add Nizoral after some time.
Anytime, dude. Best of luck!

 

[HairOnTheEdge]

So it's the Chinese study, then? Or just doing it your own way?
I'll be doing 2 mm twice a month with a stamp. At most, I'll add Nizoral after some time.
Anytime, dude. Best of luck!

I guess the Chinese study since that was the one that had a group that did solely microneedling as oppositing to only min vs min+needle. But they did it twice a month yes? All these variations are frightening when it can be up to six months at least before being able to conclude results of the experiment.

 

[newguy7]

So it's the Chinese study, then? Or just doing it your own way?
I'll be doing 2 mm twice a month with a stamp. At most, I'll add Nizoral after some time.
Anytime, dude. Best of luck!

same here dude. Right now I’m just dermapenning every week at 2mm but I’m gonna add nizoral next week after my haircut. That way if I shed any it’ll look less drastic lol f***. I should’ve started a years ago honestly. Have had pretty bad dandruff for years.

 

[PeggyPeterson]

In the Indian Study, they say that the results are sustained after 18 month. Has anyone experienced stopping the needling/minoxidil and still maintained?

 

[MinervaCGI]

Wait, people, let's chill a little bit.
I greatly appreciate @MinervaCGI for spending his time to compile such a nice collection of success stories with pics. That was indeed much needed, especially to keep raising awareness of this treatment and motivate more people. HOWEVER, before reacting with so much excitement over every single pic he has posted, we need to keep in mind that many of them involved people that also started minoxidil and finasteride at the same time as needling. That alone has huge implications and should remove any "wows" and "whoas". Why? Because it is pretty common for min+finasteride to induce such a nice regrowth at the start. So we only should take into account those cases in which 1) Only needling was performed (could be along with lesser boosters such as Nizoral, or any of the crappy natural oils that are mentioned here and there) or 2) needling is performed YEARS after the subject started minoxidil and finasteride, so that the initial growth spur has already happened.
So don't get your hopes up for those instances in the conditions 1 and 2 are not met.
Don't get me wrong, not trying to be negative. There are still awesome cases of regrowth in those pics that are only attributed to needling, especially the crown of the nizoral+dermaroller guy and of course the bloodthirsty 2young2retire.

But again, we need to effectively isolate the variables to make solid inferences, so we should not base our conclusions in subjects that start needling along with the big 3.

I agree but you are also not totally correct because two studies in two different countries using two different mechanisms produced great results. It is unlikely that both study assigned good responders using random sorting. The probability of this happening is too low. It has been proven that this works and at the very least considerably improves the response of the de facto big 3, which in my opinion should be min+finasteride+dermarolling.

I agree that this isn't the cure but it merits it's position in the de facto 3 treatments we are using currently. I mean Nizoral has weak results backing it up when you compare it with research in wounding.

I'm saying that you odds improve when you add wounding.

The Chinese study was twice the length of the Indian study, so either their methodology was more effective and powerful or it was just more dermarolling on a longer time frame that increased the percentage of responders to this therapy. I don't see why dermarolling should not be considered a permanent addition to the de facto trio of treatment when there are three different blind studies that show that it is significantly better than minoxidil alone. These studies has no corporate backing or conflict of interest. In fact, the head of the Indian study became an advisory after she did the study.

http://www.follicabio.com/biocoming-soon

I have posted this pictures to show evidence outside of the study because four things are surely true-

1. Hair follicles do not die. This is a myth.

"The follicles that make hair don't go away completely, but they become miniaturized, to the point where the hair they normally make to replace hair when it naturally falls out becomes microscopic and therefore invisible," Cotsarelis said.

2. Wounding releases growth factors and forces random hair neogenesis.

3. There has been no study in the long term benefits of wounding apart from experiences from people who have tried it long term and almost all of them are on their way to at least NW2. So, we don't know if bad responders will just take much longer or if it won't work for them considering there is a study on 4 participants that got worse on min+finasteride and even they started responding to min+derma(finasteride was dropped) after dermarolling was incorporated into their regimen.

4. The body does not run out of growth factors.

I have no desire to say this is the holy grail and we have solved it. Not at all. Because the holy grail is figuring out how to push random neogenesis toward predictable neogenesis which in my opinion is the true cure.

I posted these results to inspire people in a way that shows them that they have nothing to lose and only better odds of recovery to gain. I posted them for myself who has given up in spite of results because it hurts like hell, and I didn't respond to min and finasteride either. finasteride caused a shed and devastated my hairline. It is now maintaining it just above baseline. So many of us give up early because it's a f*****g chore to do this stuff and I just want people to try this long term because we don't know if this keeps working the more we do it. This is what the participants in the thread should focus on. This is what I should focus on. We need to figure out if the more we do it and the longer we do, do we keep getting benefits? Because Somebody, MyThinningConfidence and the guy on whom this thread is based on have had continued benefit from dermarolling. We also need to figure out if applying minoxidil right after dermarolling is better than dermarolling alone and I did my first session and applied right after on my worst hit area, a circular area 1.5 inch in diameter on my crown. Apart from the initial sting for a few seconds(similar to what I felt when I used Somebody's method), it didn't cause any side effects. It was just 0.5ml and that is enough for such a small area.

I posted these results because I too am a pessimist and too scientific. I don't believe things easily either. But that studies have me intrigued and I have to try now and make a commitment that I will do it over a long period of time, say 1.5 years or even 2 years, and do so once every two weeks to either prove or disprove this theory. There is no other way of knowing if it works.

 

[MinervaCGI]

I agree. To me those who start needling at the same time they use finasteride or min just aren't interesting because you just don't know. Those who try it after having been on it for years though makes it much more interesting.

See I don't agree with this at all. Two studies have proved it works. Nizoral had weak scientific backing saying it's equivalent to 2% Rogaine and yet we all preach the big three to every young 'un who registers on this forum and asks for help, but for some reason we do not recommend him wounding. I don't get that. I do not agree with this at all. Needling should be considered in the de facto choice of treatment because Nizoral has weak backing and we still keep recommending it.

 

[MinervaCGI]

In the Indian Study, they say that the results are sustained after 18 month. Has anyone experienced stopping the needling/minoxidil and still maintained?

It won't hurt to do it once a month as maintenance. Nothing to lose and possibly more to gain.

 

[MinervaCGI]

My approach about the frequency is the following one. Beginning of the treatment: once a week for 24 weeks or until I get a satisfying result (like the guy from Tressless). Then I will slow down and do it every 10 days. Then twice a month and then once a month. If I start to shed, then I will adjust and do it more frequently. It's better to do it less as there is always a risk of infection. A minimal one, but still, the Chinese study is reporting it.

View attachment 106572

Don't needle like those idiots on youtube who are dermarolling their beard with unwashed dermarollers which remained in the toilets for two weeks. They are rolling like that whithout even cleaning their skin.

On a side note, I must say that I'm afraid about the routine on the long run. If it works and I can get a full head of hair (let's dream a little bit) by doing it once a month, I will certainly become very reluctant to do it consistently. I will know that it's painful, I will not be psychologically prepared to handle the pain once again, my head will be full of hair so I will take it for granted and I will tell to myself: "microneedling is crap, all the good results come from Minoxidil". With this mindset, I could also turn a blind eye on shedding until I get bald and someone notices it... then comes the anxiety. Doing it once a week is a good routine as you know that it's painful, but you are also psychologically prepared to handle the pain.

If it works, on the long run, those who are like me have to prepare themselves. Here is what I will do:
- Buying a good dermapen (already done but I could try something more professional);
- Finding a numbing cream that really works for me;
- Buying sterile needles for a whole year ;
- Buying individual sterile compress pads and mini alcohol bottles (like they have in hospital) for a whole year to clean my scalp before microneedling ;
- Having a calendar to remain consistent.

I will go full professional with this. On the long run, the risk of infection will become more and more important.

People are lazy by nature, I'm already struggling to stick with Minoxidil two times a day after only 1.5 week, but I know that I have to stand firm so it can become a simple routine. The long term concerns me and I will be trying to falicitate microneedling as much as I can. Finding a good numbing cream will be my next task...

You just described the exact reason why I gave up. The sh*t feeling comes when you start seeing big gaps in your hair and you realize how much you gained from it and you have to do it all over again.

 

[albert]

Let’s agree on these points and move the discussion towards more productive insights. It should also help late newcomers to the thread:

• It’s not a cure (you’ll have to do it forever albeit less frequently)
• Yes Minoxidil will help (be careful when applying the same wounding day, we have no idea about long-term safety)
• Yes it may not work for everybody but trying out should be mandatory
• Yes you need to desinfect scalp/tool everytime or use new cartridge every time
• Yes it’s backed by studies and a bunch of people on this and other forums
• Yes it may work with people who didn’t respond to Minoxidil before
• Yes you should try even if you’re NW7 or 60 years old
• Yes you need to be patient and the best way is taking pics and checking every few weeks
• And no you don’t need much money to start with this, there are cheap tools used by many people with no problems

 

[PeggyPeterson]

Let’s agree on these points and move the discussion towards more productive insights.

• It’s not a cure (you’ll have to do it forever albeit less frequently)

I’m not disagreeing with you that this is not a cure, but I just can’t help not look passed the Indian study that claimed the results were sustained for 18 months. Are there any sources that claim otherwise?

Either way, I think I’m convinced enough to give this a go.

Just surprised that there’s very little mention of this by dermatologists. This should’ve been a treatment a long time ago considering it’s sinplicity. Oh well, better late than never.

 

[PeggyPeterson]

Also, is this treatment triggering wounded induced follicle neogenesis? Or just helping with regrowth? Or both?

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

Microneedling may induce proliferation of dp cells in scalp. You will also need vitamin d from sun exposure which has found to modulates inflammatory process's,vitamin c from organic sources to reduce Reactive oxygen species. Overall dermarolling+ vasodiltion + supplements would be a right strategy for longer standing results.

 

[MinervaCGI]

Also, is this treatment triggering wounded induced follicle neogenesis? Or just helping with regrowth? Or both?

Follicle Neogenesis is random in human beings and prefers healing more than creating new follicles. In rats it favors creation of brand new follicles. Rats have this thing that helps them readily create new follicles and it requires some sort of blocking to stop/reduce hair follicle neogenesis. Follica people know what this thing is and it's doesn't exist in humans as much as it exist in rats. This is the problem they are trying to solve.

But it's helping doing both. Growth factors are released and I believe there is a study that claims new blood vessels are formed. It's helps in both as shown in two Indian studies and one Chinese study but predictable neogenesis still hasn't been achieved in humans. The only problem left to solve is predictable neogenesis and I'm hoping they solve it because it's either them or the type of technology replicel are using that will help us cure genetic hairloss. Tjusi is great for what he is achieving but I believe it's going to be to expensive and the best surgeons in the world will still charge a premium because they can demand it.

Hair follicles can form during wound repair (10,11); trauma seems to activate hair
bulb stem cells, increasing the expression of VEGF and Wnt10b, which are genes
associated with hair growth (12-14). Epidermal growth factors are also released
during skin regeneration and repair (12). Use of microneedles could simulate this
process.

Mechanisms of hair re-growth induced by Microneedling include: [5],[6],[12]

1. Release of platelet derived growth factor, epidermal growth factors are increased through platelet activation and skin wound regeneration mechanism
2. Activation of stem cells in the hair bulge area under wound healing conditions which is caused by a dermaroller
3. Overexpression of hair growth related genes vascular endothelial growth factor, B catenin, Wnt3a, and Wnt10 b.

 

[Francesco17]

So shut up and do it bro

Like so many of us suffering humans here including myself!!!

Yes, I'm doing it. After all there are two studies behind needling

 

[Francky85]

Just did my 2nd treatment (1.5mm Dr. Roller Derma Roller, every 2 weeks, medium+ pressure).
Feel my scalp pulsing again like the first time.
Didn't apply anything (Soon I'll get the peppermint and rosemary oils and next time will apply them about 12 hours after rolling and the following few days).
Disturbing pic is attached (and might also answer the question why this is not recommended to the general public).
It was painful but bearable for me. Not fun though, to say the least. It's not something a normal human should go through.

The pain gets less and less the more you do it mate.

 

[ryan r]

Just did my 2nd treatment (1.5mm Dr. Roller Derma Roller, every 2 weeks, medium+ pressure).
Feel my scalp pulsing again like the first time.
Didn't apply anything (Soon I'll get the peppermint and rosemary oils and next time will apply them about 12 hours after rolling and the following few days).
Disturbing pic is attached (and might also answer the question why this is not recommended to the general public).
It was painful but bearable for me. Not fun though, to say the least. It's not something a normal human should go through.

How damn hard are you pushing? I also use a 1,5mm dermaroller, but I hardly get a red scalp. And its not like Im lightly rolling it over my scalp.