Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[Bill_Russo]

No offense but there will be ALWAYS side effect, even with.... water.

Indeed, that's why I say "appears" to not cause them. Perhaps they are minimal. We'll see in 2022 I hope!

 

[infinitepain]

I had a VEEERY freaking itchy scalp. Now with rolling, it seems to get less and less. I also switched up my minoxidil to a formula without PG, that might be a factor, but my itch was also very specific to my hairline, and that is now disappearing as well. So I say go for it! Do you use a keto shampoo? That might help with inflammation as well.

Specify: dermapen or roller, how often and what depth of nails?

Yes I use 2% keto shampoo.

 

[infinitepain]

If Shisheido delivers, technically it's like a vaccine against baldness. No concern other than doing it every few years.
There's that, but gotta materialize first.

That is a big "if". Honestly don't be delusional, we have what we have, everything else is a scam until it's out and proven to work. Right now the only I have some hope of working is dutasteride injections however, if you are already using minoxidil and we all are.. how do we stop using it without going bald due massive shedding? My concern like I said before, is using daily topicals for years, at some point the vehicles of the lotions may thin up the scalp.

 

[infinitepain]

For those who are lurking this topic and losing hope after reading worthless pages of debates full of broscience, I have an advice for you: stop reading, buy your stuff and start it now ! I won't post my photos right now because it's not crystal clear on the photos (even though it really is on a mirror), but all my hair are back, and no it's not a bold statement. I'm in session 8 (only 7 weeks of treatment). I had a 10 centimeters large slick bald area on the crown (like Zidane when he was playing at Juventus) and there are now tons of small/baby hair all over it. They are growing very slowly but I think I will be able to post decent photos in few weeks from now. The middle of my scalp and the hairline are now very dense. My hairline is gaining ground millimeter by millimeter. And the traction allopecia I had on the back of my head is soon to be something of the past (interesting for those who are affected by this like many africans / afrodescendants). It's definitely working. I guess I can see it more clearly than others because I lost a lot more hair than others on here, so the results are more obvious.

Don't even try to find what's going on through science, I abandoned it. It's leading to nothing but doubts. We are not scientists and... we don't really care, if it works in real life.

Don't buy more than this:
- Minoxidil (liquid) 5%;
- Dermapen, 1.5mm at the beginning of the session (like 10 minutes), then 2mm (for 20 to 30 minutes);
- Sterile 12 pins titanium needles (avoid steel needles, they are easily bent) ;
- Nizoral (don't use it the same day as your microneedling session and don't use it the day after).

You can add a numbing cream with Lidocaine (5%, not more). Test it on a small area before starting. It can be dangerous for some people.

This video will help you, if you want to use it:

AVOID SNAKE OIL SELLERS AND WANNABE SELF-MADE MEN WHO SELL SERUMS FOR 50 BUCKS A MONTH !!! Amazon is your friend. If your budget is tight then you can buy on Ebay or even Aliexpress for the dermapen. If you are financially broke, then you can go for a dermaroller or a dermastamp, but buy alcohol with it and don't forget to clean it as much as you can.

Do a microneedling session once a week for 12 weeks. Then you can go for twice a month. Don't be overobsessed to the point that you want to do it everyday; your skin has to heal and it's really important as it's part of the process. Also, you don't need to bleed. Don't torture yourself, the only thing you want to achieve is an eythema (mild redness). Don't needle moles, beauty spots, acne or psoriasis. Not lying to you, it's becoming very painful as the weeks go by, but it's only 30 to 40 minutes once in a week and it's worth it. If you are living in a sunny area, use a hat the day after the session. As for Minoxidil, use 1ml, twice a day and remain very consistent with it. Nizoral has to be used 2 to 3 times a week (leave it 5 minutes on your head / if you have acne on your face at the same time, you can also use it on it).

That's all you need to know. If you are doing it without Minoxidil, you will be waiting for a year or more before seeing results. It's up to you to decide. Don't ever come here to say that you are not seeing anything. It's very normal as you are not adding a second growth factor.

All the other things you are reading here: DHT involved or not, fibrosis or not, etc. are not important at all. Just do your treatment and don't think too much about it. After we achieve complete regrowth we need to test things like stopping Minoxidil or using it only once a day (that's what I will be trying) and go for a microneedling session once a month (I think it can be enough for maintenance; not sure though).

If you want more details about the procedure, this post from @Bill_Russo is better for you than the speculations you can read on here : https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-faqs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/

Why would you start once a week? it makes sense to me that you should start doing it less often then more often to acclimate the scalp to the agression of the treatment... so once a month, then once every 3 weeks, then bi-weekly and stay there?

And DHT is obviously involved in Androgenetic Alopecia. The greatest evidence of regrowth always comes from a guy that's finasteride/dutasteride exceptions aside.

 

[Bill_Russo]

That is a big "if". Honestly don't be delusional, we have what we have, everything else is a scam until it's out and proven to work. Right now the only I have some hope of working is dutasteride injections however, if you are already using minoxidil and we all are.. how do we stop using it without going bald due massive shedding? My concern like I said before, is using daily topicals for years, at some point the vehicles of the lotions may thin up the scalp.

Well, sh*t. Plenty of "scams" down the pipeline then. I better stock up a lifetime worth of dem cartridges!

 

[ryan r]

Specify: dermapen or roller, how often and what depth of nails?

Yes I use 2% keto shampoo.

roller 1,5 mm once a week. Im not sore the next day, wondering if that's a bad thing. Do get a tiny bit of redness and plenty blood on the day of. I am rolling pretty fricking hard though, cant say I think I can push harder

 

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

I have this strong urge to buzz my hair because the diffuse thinning is starting to become more apparent.

The diffuse thinning will be more apparent unless you are going below a #2. The only ways to minimize diffuse thinning is keeping it below #2 or keeping it long enough to hide with length

 

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

Also another thing regarding redness. If you're lighter skin it's easier for your scalp to become all red. The studies we have seen were conducted on Indians and Chinese. Indians tend to be darker than Europeans. The Chinese aren't brown, but even their scalp doesn't become red as quick as the European scalp.

I recommend that the white skinned forum users not rely too much on the redness. You might have not have penetrated the scalp enough. As I said, the studies were conducted on people with more skin pigmentation.

 

[sportsguy97]

Most people, myself included, dropped microneedling back in 2014 because it hurts so much and not many people talked this treatment after discussion about dermarolling was banned here (which would have motivated people to keep on needling). Now we have pens and much more evidence (anecdotal and studies) proving benefits of regular needling.

I think we still need more information of needling (frequency, needle lenght etc.) and what else is needed for regrowth. We also dont know if possible regrowth is permanent or will hair fall after some time.

Edit. I just finished my fourth session so I have been needling for one month, once a week. There are some tiny tiny vellus hairs in temple area which were not there before starting needling. We’ll see what happens to them during coming months. Probably not much but hopefully some of them grow longer.

Why wouldn't more happen? In a months time you have all new hairs popping up where they weren't. Imagine if you can continue to compound on that. By the year point you'd have some serious regrowth.

For those who are lurking this topic and losing hope after reading worthless pages of debates full of broscience, I have an advice for you: stop reading, buy your stuff and start it now ! I won't post my photos right now because it's not crystal clear on the photos (even though it really is on a mirror), but all my hair are back, and no it's not a bold statement. I'm in session 8 (only 7 weeks of treatment). I had a 10 centimeters large slick bald area on the crown (like Zidane when he was playing at Juventus) and there are now tons of small/baby hair all over it. They are growing very slowly but I think I will be able to post decent photos in few weeks from now. The middle of my scalp and the hairline are now very dense. My hairline is gaining ground millimeter by millimeter. And the traction allopecia I had on the back of my head is soon to be something of the past (interesting for those who are affected by this like many africans / afrodescendants). It's definitely working. I guess I can see it more clearly than others because I lost a lot more hair than others on here, so the results are more obvious.

Don't even try to find what's going on through science, I abandoned it. It's leading to nothing but doubts. We are not scientists and... we don't really care, if it works in real life.

Don't buy more than this:
- Minoxidil (liquid) 5%;
- Dermapen, 1.5mm at the beginning of the session (like 10 minutes), then 2mm (for 20 to 30 minutes);
- Sterile 12 pins titanium needles (avoid steel needles, they are easily bent) ;
- Nizoral (don't use it the same day as your microneedling session and don't use it the day after).

You can add a numbing cream with Lidocaine (5%, not more). Test it on a small area before starting. It can be dangerous for some people.

This video will help you, if you want to use it:

AVOID SNAKE OIL SELLERS AND WANNABE SELF-MADE MEN WHO SELL SERUMS FOR 50 BUCKS A MONTH !!! Amazon is your friend. If your budget is tight then you can buy on Ebay or even Aliexpress for the dermapen. If you are financially broke, then you can go for a dermaroller or a dermastamp, but buy alcohol with it and don't forget to clean it as much as you can.

Do a microneedling session once a week for 12 weeks. Then you can go for twice a month. Don't be overobsessed to the point that you want to do it everyday; your skin has to heal and it's really important as it's part of the process. Also, you don't need to bleed. Don't torture yourself, the only thing you want to achieve is an eythema (mild redness). Don't needle moles, beauty spots, acne or psoriasis. Not lying to you, it's becoming very painful as the weeks go by, but it's only 30 to 40 minutes once in a week and it's worth it. If you are living in a sunny area, use a hat the day after the session. As for Minoxidil, use 1ml, twice a day and remain very consistent with it. Nizoral has to be used 2 to 3 times a week (leave it 5 minutes on your head / if you have acne on your face at the same time, you can also use it on it).

That's all you need to know. If you are doing it without Minoxidil, you will be waiting for a year or more before seeing results. It's up to you to decide. Don't ever come here to say that you are not seeing anything. It's very normal as you are not adding a second growth factor.

All the other things you are reading here: DHT involved or not, fibrosis or not, etc. are not important at all. Just do your treatment and don't think too much about it. After we achieve complete regrowth we need to test things like stopping Minoxidil or using it only once a day (that's what I will be trying) and go for a microneedling session once a month (I think it can be enough for maintenance; not sure though).

If you want more details about the procedure, this post from @Bill_Russo is better for you than the speculations you can read on here : https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-faqs-procedures-studies-and-such.119653/

Awesome. I agree with the needling thing. Its the recovery between thats growing hair. Kind of like lifting and then giving your body time to rest/recover. I also agree with the less frequent needling thing. I think 2young when he was here made reference to not needling as much in summer months because of sun exposure. I think needling once a month will be fine after you get the desired regrowth. Right now were needling for regrowth, for maintenance its probably much less frequent because the wound healing process can take a while.

As for minoxidil, well thats def something we can test as well in regards to using it less frequently. I know its tough but we need to be patient, hopefully continued positives ahead.

 

[Me Vs DiffuseThinning]

Your comment is right. Even inside the white skinned population, there are many variations. I'm very white, I have a thick skin and very dark hair. I'm not turning red with the current cold in France. My blonde and thin-skined neighbour is turning very red with this cold. Redness is not a great indicator.

I think a better indicator is the pain. I think it's fine when you touch the skin and feel a little pain (as if you had a small hematoma). I turn red after 10 minutes of microneedling but my sessions are 40 minutes long, because I know that color is not a good indicator. Why 40 minutes? Because I feel some pain after 30 minutes of microneedling, when I touch my scalp with a finger. After this I know that I reached erythema. I can even feel some micro-bumps on parts of my head. This is where I stop.

Only one thing to correct about this. At the very least, 20% of the Chinese are brown/brownish/olive. China is not ethnically homogeneous. You are speaking about the Hans (not all though) who are the majority in China and are white/whitish/yellowish/olive.

Yeah I was speaking in generalities. It would still be nice to get studies from generally lighter skinned places like Europe or parts of the Middle East. Cosmetic concerns are a really big thing in Turkey, and that coupled with a high balding rate will perhaps get us another study

 

[Bill_Russo]

Chinese study did 3-4 passes on everyone. Until it became reddish. Just FYI.

 

[Scootz]

On a side note that's still a propos, I used the Derminator on my face today at .75mm and my skin looks f*****g amazing right now. Right after the session my face was was red as f*** and I looked like a burn victim but now a couple hours later I'm left with this glowing, bronzed look like I legit spent the day on the beach and got a slight tan. Just like a healthy, ruddy color. Applied some vitamin D ointment after that helps the skin heal and also some hyaluronic acid serum.

I’ve been thinking about needling my face once a month as well. How did it look the next day? What’s the recovery timescale look like at 0.75mm over the whole face? I’ve read you’re not suppose to pass over the under eye region, around the lips, or the nose which I’ll likely steer clear of as well.

 

[Obsessive]

So from reading this whole long-*** thread, it sounds like the Derminator, or Derminator 2, is the best of the best, if money isn't an issue. Maybe it's more than necessary, but there isn't anything better. Would most agree?

 

[bigjimmy]

So from reading this whole long-*** thread, it sounds like the Derminator, or Derminator 2, is the best of the best, if money isn't an issue. Maybe it's more than necessary, but there isn't anything better. Would most agree?

Yeah pretty much.

 

[Trichosan]

So from reading this whole long-*** thread, it sounds like the Derminator, or Derminator 2, is the best of the best, if money isn't an issue. Maybe it's more than necessary, but there isn't anything better. Would most agree?

Money not an issue? Here you go: https://dermapen.com/microneedling/

This is "THE" Dermapen. Others use the name as a generic descriptor.

 

[Obsessive]

Money not an issue? Here you go: https://dermapen.com/microneedling/

This is "THE" Dermapen. Others use the name as a generic descriptor.

Wow-I misspoke. That level of cash is very much of an issue. Thanks.

 

[Capone]

I’ve been thinking about needling my face once a month as well. How did it look the next day? What’s the recovery timescale look like at 0.75mm over the whole face? I’ve read you’re not suppose to pass over the under eye region, around the lips, or the nose which I’ll likely steer clear of as well.

Eye area is fine just don’t go over 0.25/.50

 

[rizaster]

So from reading this whole long-*** thread, it sounds like the Derminator, or Derminator 2, is the best of the best, if money isn't an issue. Maybe it's more than necessary, but there isn't anything better. Would most agree?

Only problem is their shipping sucks, potentially taking up to 3 months to reach the states. I also really question their claim that other tools cause microtearing. Sounds more like marketing than anything else. They dont provide any testing or evidence of microtearing on actual skin and more importantly, effects of it. Its just conjecture at this point.

 

[Scootz]

Eye area is fine just don’t go over 0.25/.50

Cool maybe I’ll set it to 0.25 to be safe

 

[Scootz]

Only problem is their shipping sucks, potentially taking up to 3 months to reach the states. I also really question their claim that other tools cause microtearing. Sounds more like marketing than anything else. They dont provide any testing or evidence of microtearing on actual skin and more importantly, effects of it. Its just conjecture at this point.

From a long term investment standpoint it might be worth it to just order it and wait. I ended up getting the Dr Pen A6 and it seems to do the job just fine. I agree that microtearing might not be as big of a deal as they make it out to be. Regardless of the pen you go with, it’ll still tear way less than any roller.