Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless

[Derelict]

wow chen's results are astonishing, thanks for giving us your input, i have slick blad area on my crown, your post has given me some much needed confidence in what im doing.

 

[Notreallyhere]

wow chen's results are astonishing, thanks for giving us your input, i have slick blad area on my crown, your post has given me some much needed confidence in what im doing.

chens results are actually the most impressive yet as he has reversed that baldness shine stage

 

[chen]

@chen the roller that you use has 192 or 540 needles?

540 needles.
but i dont think this is important since use dermaroller with frequency
try and see wich one fits you best

 

[FCKW36]

Regarding the cancer thing, for example one reason for cancer inside the mouth are sharp teeth which resluts in continuous wounding inside your mouth which can lead to cancer.

 

[LowHairLine]

Despite the presented pro-needing evidence is becoming overwhelming (THANKS a ton @chen!), there still seem to be some doubt.
Last time I have presented my view of the NEEDLING EARLY RESULTS DISAPPOINTMENT.
This time would like to do the same for NEEDLING EFFICACY SKEPTICISM.

SCIENTIFIC APPROACH
Needling should ideally be assessed with scientific approach, and claims backed up by evidence.


EVIDENCE PRO NEEDLING
Needling is among the best evidence-supported regrowth treatments:

STUDIES
INDIAN = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
CHINESE = https://www.docdroid.net/Q4cnC2V/101080-at-1476417220171376094.pdf

WOUNDING NEEDLING (aka @74775446 method)
Responders Photo-evidence was presented in the post below (w/ procedure details):
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-from-tressless.117746/page-348#post-1769722

MINOXIDIL ABSORPTION NEEDLING (aka @Somebody method)
+ daily / bi-daily,
+ w/ Roller gently (no blood),
+ applying Minoxidil right-after;

Responders Photo evidence:
@Somebody (NO regrowth w/ minoxidil alone)


@chen (regrowing slick-bald areas!)


UNSPECIFIED NEEDLING
A series of anecdotes were kindly presented by @MinervaCGI starting here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-from-tressless.117746/page-104#post-1741802
Unfortunately the regimens are not complete - do you happen to have the original links @MinervaCGI?

Dermarolling + Nizoral:


Dermarolling + finasteride + MIN:


Dermarolling@1mm + MIN + Nizoral:



CONCLUSION
Based on the presented evidence, NEEDLING & minoxidil for a YEAR OR MORE w/ above methods appears to REGROW HAIR WITH MOST PEOPLE.


EVIDENCE AGAINST NEEDLING
I support skepticism of balding treatment with:
(1) evidence against it, or
(2) lack of convincing evidence (e.g. Trinov as of right now);
But with needling I am having a hard time to see either...

There are "it doesn't work" anecdotal accounts here and @2013 community trial, but to my knowledge:
- everyone without results has NOT fulfilled the NEEDILING REGIMENS above (mostly by quitting before the 1 year mark), and
- everyone that has fulfilled the NEEDLING REGIMENS has had results;
If this is not the case, I would be happy to learn about it.

@NEEDLING SKEPTICS
I am genuinely curious what motivates skeptics and am reaching out to you for an explanation:
after all what I'm after is a working treatment, not a temporary delusional consolation

Are you skeptical because you believe:
(1) RESULTS = due to Finasteride / Minoxidil, NOT Needling?
(2) NEEDLING EFFECTS = vanishing over Time?
(3) STUDIES = w/ Agenda / conflict of Interest?
(4) ANECDOTES = from rare good Responders?
(5) ANECDOTES = questionable (e.g. FUE, Toppik, reversed Timeline etc.)?
(6) PHOTOS = questionable due to Lighting / Hair length / Viewpoint / Combover etc.?
(7) COMBINATION of the above and / or something else?
Where possible, please kindly back up your claims with evidence.


FINAL THOUGHTS
Till convincing evidence against it is presented, NEEDLING w/ MINOXIDIL still seems the best regrowth option currently available. Therefore, will be drilling holes in my scalp for now - and wish the best of luck to all Needling Warriors out there!

 

[Notreallyhere]

Regarding the cancer thing, for example one reason for cancer inside the mouth are sharp teeth which resluts in continuous wounding inside your mouth which can lead to cancer.

Or it could just the wounds let titanium oxide or limonene from your toothpast into the tissue regular id be far more worried about the alcohol carrier in minoxidil than the wounding itself causing cancer

 

[baldman329]

SCIENTIFIC APPROACH
Despite the presented pro-needing evidence is becoming overwhelming (THANKS a ton @chen!), there still seem to be some doubt. Needling should ideally be assessed with scientific approach, and claims backed up by evidence.


EVIDENCE PRO NEEDLING
Needling is one of the best evidence-supported regrowth treatments:

STUDIES
INDIAN = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
CHINESE = https://www.docdroid.net/Q4cnC2V/101080-at-1476417220171376094.pdf

WOUNDING NEEDLING (aka @74775446 method)
Responders Photo-evidence was presented in the post below (w/ procedure details):
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-from-tressless.117746/page-348#post-1769722

minoxidil ABSORPTION NEEDLING (aka @Somebody method)
+ daily / bi-daily,
+ w/ Roller gently (no blood),
+ applying Minoxidil right-after;

Responders Photo evidence:
@Somebody (NO regrowth w/ minoxidil alone)
View attachment 112878

@chen (regrowing slick-bald areas!)
View attachment 112879

UNKNOWN NEEDLING
A series of anecdotes were kindly presented by @MinervaCGI starting here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-from-tressless.117746/page-104#post-1741802
Unfortunately the regimens are not complete - do you happen to have the original links @MinervaCGI?

Dermarolling + Nizoral:
View attachment 112880

Dermarolling + finasteride + MIN:
View attachment 112881

Dermarolling@1mm + MIN + Nizoral:
View attachment 112882


CONCLUSION
Based on the presented evidence, NEEDLING & minoxidil for a YEAR OR MORE w/ above methods REGROWS HAIR WITH MOST PEOPLE.


EVIDENCE AGAINST NEEDLING
I support skepticism of balding treatment with:
(1) evidence against it, or
(2) lack of convincing evidence (e.g. Trinov as of right now);
But with needling I am having a hard time to see either...

There are "it doesn't work" anecdotal accounts here and @2013 community trial, but to my knowledge:
- everyone without results has NOT fulfilled the NEEDILING REGIMENS above (mostly by quitting before the 1 year mark), and
- everyone that has fulfilled the NEEDLING REGIMENS has had results;
If this is not the case, I would be happy to learn about it.

@NEEDLING SKEPTICS
I am sincerely curious what motivates skeptics and am reaching out to you for an explanation:
after all what I'm after is a working treatment, not a temporary delusional consolation

Are you skeptical because you believe:
(1) Results are due to finasteride / minoxidil, not needling?
(2) Studies had an agenda / conflict of interest?
(3) Anecdotes are from rare good responders?
(4) Needling effects disappear over time?
(5) Anecdotes are fraudulent (e.g. FUE, toppik, reversed timeline etc.)?
(6) A combination of the above?
Where possible, please kindly back up your claims with evidence.


FINAL THOUGHTS
Till convincing evidence against needling is presented, I needling seems the best regrowth option currently available. Therefore, I will be putting holes in my scalp for now - and wish the best of luck to all needling warriors out there!

I know there's a similar thread on microneedling created year's ago. I'm surprised none of those people can come forward and give us some details.

 

[Chromeo]

I know there's a similar thread on microneedling created year's ago. I'm surprised none of those people can come forward and give us some details.

Have you read through the thread? 2Young has posted.

 

[Iah11]

This is definitely working for me. Thickening my hair noticeably now.

 

[FCKW36]

Or it could just the wounds let titanium oxide or limonene from your toothpast into the tissue regular id be far more worried about the alcohol carrier in minoxidil than the wounding itself causing cancer

What the f*** are you talking about? Stop your stupid bro science assumptions, I'm talking about scientific facts here...

 

[JonnyGo]

Despite the presented pro-needing evidence is becoming overwhelming (THANKS a ton @chen!), there still seem to be some doubt.
Last time I have presented my view of the NEEDLING EARLY RESULTS DISAPPOINTMENT.
This time would like to do the same for NEEDLING EFFICACY SKEPTICISM.

SCIENTIFIC APPROACH
Needling should ideally be assessed with scientific approach, and claims backed up by evidence.


EVIDENCE PRO NEEDLING
Needling is one of the best evidence-supported regrowth treatments:

STUDIES
INDIAN = https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
CHINESE = https://www.docdroid.net/Q4cnC2V/101080-at-1476417220171376094.pdf

WOUNDING NEEDLING (aka @74775446 method)
Responders Photo-evidence was presented in the post below (w/ procedure details):
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-from-tressless.117746/page-348#post-1769722

MINOXIDIL ABSORPTION NEEDLING (aka @Somebody method)
+ daily / bi-daily,
+ w/ Roller gently (no blood),
+ applying Minoxidil right-after;

Responders Photo evidence:
@Somebody (NO regrowth w/ minoxidil alone)
View attachment 112878

@chen (regrowing slick-bald areas!)
View attachment 112879

UNSPECIFIED NEEDLING
A series of anecdotes were kindly presented by @MinervaCGI starting here:
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...s-from-tressless.117746/page-104#post-1741802
Unfortunately the regimens are not complete - do you happen to have the original links @MinervaCGI?

Dermarolling + Nizoral:
View attachment 112880

Dermarolling + finasteride + MIN:
View attachment 112881

Dermarolling@1mm + MIN + Nizoral:
View attachment 112882


CONCLUSION
Based on the presented evidence, NEEDLING & minoxidil for a YEAR OR MORE w/ above methods REGROWS HAIR WITH MOST PEOPLE.


EVIDENCE AGAINST NEEDLING
I support skepticism of balding treatment with:
(1) evidence against it, or
(2) lack of convincing evidence (e.g. Trinov as of right now);
But with needling I am having a hard time to see either...

There are "it doesn't work" anecdotal accounts here and @2013 community trial, but to my knowledge:
- everyone without results has NOT fulfilled the NEEDILING REGIMENS above (mostly by quitting before the 1 year mark), and
- everyone that has fulfilled the NEEDLING REGIMENS has had results;
If this is not the case, I would be happy to learn about it.

@NEEDLING SKEPTICS
I am sincerely curious what motivates skeptics and am reaching out to you for an explanation:
after all what I'm after is a working treatment, not a temporary delusional consolation

Are you skeptical because you believe:
(1) RESULTS = due to Finasteride / Minoxidil, NOT Needling?
(2) NEEDLING EFFECTS = disappear over Time?
(3) STUDIES = w/ Agenda / conflict of Interest?
(4) ANECDOTES = from rare good Responders?
(5) ANECDOTES = questionable (e.g. FUE, Toppik, reversed Timeline etc.)?
(6) PHOTOS = questionable due to Lighting / Hair length / Viewpoint / Combover etc.?
(7) COMBINATION of the above and / or something else?
Where possible, please kindly back up your claims with evidence.


FINAL THOUGHTS
Till convincing evidence against it is presented, NEEDLING w/ MINOXIDIL still seems the best regrowth option currently available. Therefore, will be drilling holes in my scalp for now - and wish the best of luck to all Needling Warriors out there!

Somebody uses finasteride and if you look at his thread you’ll see he was already having amazing regrow the with fina alone.
The guy in the 4th picture lost all the gains like most people who had some success with minoxidil.
I don’t know about the rest of the other guys but in my opinion needling alone won’t do anything at all to improve cosmetic appearance.

 

[kungfukenny]

I said it many times before, dermaneedling is only supplementary. Your success largely depends on your main treatments. Don't bother with dermaneedling alone. Even if you regrow some hairs, it wont be cosmetically significant.


Also, Chen is correct when he said that the new hairs you regrow are different. These new hairs are weaker then the original ones.
Once you stop main treatments, they will all fall out in a matter of 3-4 months. This whole thing about breaking down calcification is probably a broscience. Needling doesn't have permanent benefits. Once inflammation returns, all new hairs are gone.

I dermaneedled with seti for a year straight. Decent regrowth. When I quit seti, i kept dermaneedling. But the shed started despite that and I lost everything and more.

Why did you stop taking seti if it was working for you? Also, does anyone know what the signs of inflammation are? Thanks

 

[Notreallyhere]

What the f*** are you talking about? Stop your stupid bro science assumptions, I'm talking about scientific facts here...

if you say so alcohol https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/ab.../alcohol-and-cancer/does-alcohol-cause-cancer limonene
https://interstateheatandair.com/th...onene-in-candles-cleaners-and-air-fresheners/
titanium dioxide https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...roducts-cancer-cause-scientists-a7541956.html you can do the proper research and educate your self more in depth

 

[FCKW36]

if you say so alcohol https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/ab.../alcohol-and-cancer/does-alcohol-cause-cancer limonene
https://interstateheatandair.com/th...onene-in-candles-cleaners-and-air-fresheners/
titanium dioxide https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...roducts-cancer-cause-scientists-a7541956.html you can do the proper research and educate your self more in depth

And how is all of this connected with the fact, that wounding inside of the mouth leads to cancer? That's a scientific not backed assumption from you.

 

[LowHairLine]

Hi @JonnyGo,
thx for your insight - opinion appreciated!

@Somebody

Somebody uses finasteride and if you look at his thread you’ll see he was already having amazing regrow the with fina alone.

I agree he had substantial regrowth w/ Finasteride - however, according to @Somebody himself, Dermarolling still made a huge difference:

Yes, regrowth has been great. Sometimes, even I can't belive it. Sure, dermarolling makes a huge difference. I had tried minoxidil before (2009), for about 10 months but didn't see any results, so I cut it off (was living at that time in country where they didn't sale any minoxidil) In 2013 I read a study about combi approch minoxidil and derm and decided to take action.

Unfortunately all I can present to support his claim are Lo-res PROPECIA Vs "LATER RESULTS" photos he has uploaded:


He had a way better chance to properly assess than we do w/ lo-res pics, therefore his opinion should in principle have more weight than ours does. However, if the consensus will be that he did not have additional gains with Dermarolling, I agree on removing his evidence from my post (although @chen has achieved regrowth with the same method)


@4th PHOTO GUY

The guy in the 4th picture lost all the gains like most people who had some success with minoxidil.

Suppose you are referring to him?

That would be a useful update, especially if supported by a link - do you happen to have one? If so, will happily remove his evidence as well - I am after the truth after all

Thanks!

 

[overpourgoodfortune]

...
@4th PHOTO GUY

Suppose you are referring to him?
View attachment 112892
That would be a useful update, especially if supported by a link - do you happen to have one? If so, will happily remove his evidence as well - I am after the truth after all

Thanks!

I ran into this guy (vengance123) over on Reddit at /r/tressless on this thread a couple months ago (December'ish).

Here is a bit of our conversation:

Good to see my picture from 1 to 3 months, i wish i could say that i'm really happy now but sadly after 9 months it didn't improve much. I'm still positive and i hope that in few months things will start getting better!

I replied:

Looks like you had some crazy regrowth at your hairline! Pretty impressive over such a short period of time.

Has most of that stuck with you 9 months in now, or did it stay fairly thin/shed?

... he then replied:

Since month 4 i started the shedding phase, and since that my shed didn't stop, basically i'm loosing all the gains i've had, overall my hair looks healthier than month 1, and my temples are absolutely better than month 1 (even with the shed), I don't know if this is normal, if someone had this experience, and it makes me think if i'm doing something wrong, if it's because i'm not eating healthy enough, or if i should add "something more" to my regime like supplements, i don't know, still i'm positive and i'm hoping to be better in the next months.

https://imgur.com/a/ZXEmjyt

These pics are from 2 months ago, they look good but after 2 months i'm worse than those pics.

... there is more responses from him on that Reddit thread, but that's the summary.

edit (summary): so in December he felt as though he was losing all his gains and frustrated - but he still felt he was doing better than where he started despite the shed. Could just be experiencing a normal shed - and those may come back stronger. Only time will tell.

edit, edit: This guy is also on finasteride for what it is worth.

 

[DyingOfTheLight]

What do you think about this study:

www[DOT]dimedico[DOT]co.il/hairegen/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/MJDR-1000116.pdf
(can't post links, so replace dot with .)

Looks as if another company has jumped on the needling/massaging bandwagon. Considering the listed Universities (Dermatology, Edith Wolfson Medical Center, Holon, Israel, Dermatology, G Marconi University of Rome, Rome, Italy Dermatology, Pacific State Medical University, Vladivostok, Russia), I believe this is another snake oil treatment. But who knows.

I am also starting to believe that the two other studies (chinese and indian one) for dermarolling are scientific trash.

You can speculate all you like but that won't grow your hair back. Only thing that's certain is that all available 'treatments' are always a matter of trial and error. There are enough succes stories tot give needling some credibility at least

 

[LongWayHome]

Actually I’ve been around for about the same amount of time and I disagree. There have never been so many options abd science has never been as advanced as it is TODAY.

So please go be snowflakes elsewhere. This thread is about microneedling. It’s not a pity party.

There have always been "options", but the bottom line is - Do they really work?
5-10 years from now you'll still see new threads like "Remember Trinov? How was it like?", "Havs anyone tried dermarolling and had actual results?", "Is ru58841 an alternative for finasteride?"

This is not me being pity, this is a fact.
No one will remember this thread for the exact reason no one remembers the thread about dermarolling from 2012, and in 2024 there will be a new thread exactly like this one with a member called kiwi667 that is calling someone a snowflake just to feel worthy and meaningful to the world.
There are so many people that only wrote here "it doesn't work, you're wasting your time". that is being pity, know the difference you moron.

This is the circle of the forums I guess, people come, people go. It would be great if it was possible to "keep" the important threads with only the important comments, like results, pictures etc, for future members, and save them the trouble of doing it all over again.

 

[kiwi666]

Lol "snake oil treatment", are the results in this thread also trash?

Come on now Helga.

Helga?

 

[Kagaho]

I am a long time lurker and I am aware that 90% on here are delusional morons. You are one of them.

Jesus, you are a so f*****g dumb, it's hilarious. So Follica is microneedling only? No growth compounds? Nothing else, just needling?

Delusional and naive, great combo.

Lol, calm lady... Have you even read them? Follica protocol wont differ substantially from those studies you mention. They recently patented a dermapen like device! At least at the beggining that seems to be the case, and the chinese one had a microneedling only arm with results consistent with Follica's abrasion alone numbers: 20+ terminal hairs per cm2.