Very Impressive Dermarolling And Minxodil Results - From Tressless
Ok first off, the action of DHT on the scalp is a natural process that works on the level of genes. DHT is a steroid hormone, so it just enters the cell and activated the genes through a complex process. Given this, it is highly unlikely that it would cause calcification and fibrosis, which happens during inflammation and wound healing. It involves apoptosis, a more clean method of getting rid of the hair follicles.
Not to sound pretentious but I’m a medical student not and so I atleast have a basic understanding of the matter, and I can understand what I’m reading when I search up studies on androgenic alopecia (which by the way, there are many).
Like I said, there’s no doubting that inflammation in the scalp from the many potential ways from which it can arise (auto-immune, bacteria, irritants, etc) could play a significant factor in hair loss, but to deny the fact that 5-alpha reductase expression on the scalp will not eventually lead to hair loss is denying something that is extensively studied
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This is interesting. I actually took one month of Finasteride when I started balding around 23 years old and I felt new emotions / anxiety for the first time ever.
It spooked me and I went off of it and gave up fighting hair loss altogether because I didn't really care. I have a good head shape for shaved/bald head.
It felt like the anxiety stuck with me on/off since then, but it could have been mental or totally unrelated to the drugs at all. I had just started new job and was also going to college so it could have been stress / regular anxiety.
Fast forward to a year ago [32y/o] when I decided to start fighting hair loss again. Went back on finasteride even though I was worried about what happened the first time I took it. This time I had the complete opposite reaction. I haven't felt anxiety since I went on it. I feel like I have more confidence. No weird emotions. Sex drive is as good as its ever been.
I don't know if I had phantom sides when I was younger or if my body chemistry has just changed since then, but Finasteride is going very well for me now.
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I have been rolling at 1mm daily or twice daily with my minoxidil sessions. Can feel it a little bit. Not really tenderness or soreness like 1.5 or 2mm was giving me.
With 1.5mm or 2mm sessions, I would have redness / soreness for 1 day. By day 2 I would 'feel' fully healed, but I wasn't. Just because it doesn't hurt or isn't sore/red doesn't mean you are fully healed.
It would take 7-10 days for my skin to shed the old dead skin, so I know there were still healing processes going on as it grew the new skin underneath.
I wouldn't rush needling again until you see some dead skin flaking off if you are doing the weekly 1.5mm or more sessions
With 1.5mm or 2mm sessions, I would have redness / soreness for 1 day. By day 2 I would 'feel' fully healed, but I wasn't. Just because it doesn't hurt or isn't sore/red doesn't mean you are fully healed.
It would take 7-10 days for my skin to shed the old dead skin, so I know there were still healing processes going on as it grew the new skin underneath.
I wouldn't rush needling again until you see some dead skin flaking off if you are doing the weekly 1.5mm or more sessions
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Stop talking to me like I am a 4 years old kid. Medical stud? hahahaahah You're book smart but you don't make common sense at all. Mr know it all, If DHT the major culprit of Androgenic Alopecia, why dutasteride and finasteride is not reversing the problem then?
Inflammation in the scalp from the many potential ways from which it can arise (auto-immune, bacteria, irritants, etc) could play a significant factor in hair loss
"hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha" It is cringy as f*** to read.
Dude, go read more books Mr Know it all. you don't know sh*t.
Oh god, my bad. I was typing that on my phone and don’t know how it came out as stud, I meant student. Calling myself a stud would be douchey, lol.
I'm sorry that my reply to you was seen as I was trying to talk to you like you're a kid. I certainly didn't mean to come across that way. I was just stating the reasons for what I said from our previous interaction.
Also, to your question "If DHT the major culprit of Androgenic Alopecia, why dutasteride and finasteride is not reversing the problem then?". That's because the drugs aren't meant to totally diminish all alpha reductase enzymes forever. Your body is going to just keep making more regardless. Another way you can look at it is: Why do people see improvements and slowing down of their hairloss with finasteride//dutasteride?
and to repeat myself for the last time: I'm not saying androgens are the only reason, but i'm saying that it's been studied extensively and there is much evidence to support that they play a significant role.
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I've been here for years.. I just got back into it. I got banned years ago due to a controversy micro-needling thread. It is so f*****g annoying that people still focus and talk about the same sh*t. DHT. Dealing with all the insecure feminized guys with no DHT left in them on here is really tough also. OMG.
Both drugs are ineffective and will get you in trouble on the long run.
Despite Propecia’s “proven” efficacy, a few caveats are in order as always. While 277 more hairs per square inch may seem like a lot, a cosmetology text notes that the average number of hairs per square inch is 2,200
http://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard....fda-approved-baldness-remedy-is-it-effective/
Our focus should be more on the AR and chronic inflammation itself.
There is actual physical and irreversible damage to Androgenetic Alopecia. You can't argue Biopsies.
Only effective drugs that reversed Androgenic Alopecia are anti inflammatory..
methotrexate
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24153140
Secukinumab
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6031562/
benoxaprofen
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1498062/?page=1
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@Squeegee 2.0 Why has no one been trying benoxaprofen?
It seems simple and safe enough and cover the angle of inflammation
It seems simple and safe enough and cover the angle of inflammation
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Looking good dude. Awesome! Giving me a lot of hope because my crown is in terrible condition and I am too young to carry off that "balding from the back" look in public. What's your regimen? Weekly rolling?
Did you start minoxidil and dermarolling together?
@Squeegee 2.0 you are one of the few lucky guys who were regrowing an insane amount of hair from dermarolling back in the 2013 thread. Man, it's great to have you back. Would you please let us know about your status? It's been 6 years. Did you keep gaining on needling or did you eventually lost your gains? I'm sure your report and experience will give us a lot of insight.
@Squeegee 2.0
While the studies you linked were interesting to read, they don’t really prove anything. You linked me case studies, which are just observational studies that can't be used to generate hypotheses because they don't use a comparison/control group.
You can't really make conclusive evidence with these studies that are based on just one or a handful of patients.
The study on methotrexate was pretty interesting, but the people who did the study proposed that methotrexate's effect on androgen synthesis and metabolism was the cause. Kind of supports the idea that androgens play a big role in hair loss. Again, i'm not saying the only role, but a significant one.
The benoxaparen one was especially interesting because it's an NSAID. It kind of does show some association between inflammation and hairloss. What I noticed in the case reports in that study was that the patients had autoimmune conditions (except the osteoarthritis one). Ankylosing spondyloarthritis, psoriatic arthritis, and rheumatoid arthritis. Patients with autoimmune disorders tend to have overlapping other autoimmune disorders (look up HLA subtypes). Although i'm not an expert on the subject, from what i've studied so far I believe that their autoimmune conditions may have been associated with some type of autoimmune form of hairloss. So by treating their autoimmune disorder, they have had some resolution of their hairloss. For instance, some of the same antigens that are being attacked via autoimmunity may also be expressed on the scalp, hair follicle, etc. and so they may get "caught in the cross fire" so to speeak.
Finally, in the study on secukinumab you see at the very end they say "The possibility that repigmentation of hairs could be related to clinical healing of psoriasis on the scalp as a postinflammatory effect has also been taken into consideration, but hair darkening in our patient was observed in all areas of the scalp, regardless of whether he was affected by psoriasis" which is indeed very interesting. Finding hair darkening on other areas of the scalp was a pretty big find. One argument I have against this is that those areas that were not seen to be affected by psoriasis may have had some underlying psoriatic/autoimmune process that was not visible, and could have potentially flared into psoriasis should the patient not receive treatment. However, I could be wrong.
While the studies you linked were interesting to read, they don’t really prove anything. You linked me case studies, which are just observational studies that can't be used to generate hypotheses because they don't use a comparison/control group.
You can't really make conclusive evidence with these studies that are based on just one or a handful of patients.
The study on methotrexate was pretty interesting, but the people who did the study proposed that methotrexate's effect on androgen synthesis and metabolism was the cause. Kind of supports the idea that androgens play a big role in hair loss. Again, i'm not saying the only role, but a significant one.
The benoxaparen one was especially interesting because it's an NSAID. It kind of does show some association between inflammation and hairloss. What I noticed in the case reports in that study was that the patients had autoimmune conditions (except the osteoarthritis one). Ankylosing spondyloarthritis, psoriatic arthritis, and rheumatoid arthritis. Patients with autoimmune disorders tend to have overlapping other autoimmune disorders (look up HLA subtypes). Although i'm not an expert on the subject, from what i've studied so far I believe that their autoimmune conditions may have been associated with some type of autoimmune form of hairloss. So by treating their autoimmune disorder, they have had some resolution of their hairloss. For instance, some of the same antigens that are being attacked via autoimmunity may also be expressed on the scalp, hair follicle, etc. and so they may get "caught in the cross fire" so to speeak.
Finally, in the study on secukinumab you see at the very end they say "The possibility that repigmentation of hairs could be related to clinical healing of psoriasis on the scalp as a postinflammatory effect has also been taken into consideration, but hair darkening in our patient was observed in all areas of the scalp, regardless of whether he was affected by psoriasis" which is indeed very interesting. Finding hair darkening on other areas of the scalp was a pretty big find. One argument I have against this is that those areas that were not seen to be affected by psoriasis may have had some underlying psoriatic/autoimmune process that was not visible, and could have potentially flared into psoriasis should the patient not receive treatment. However, I could be wrong.
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What is CB dude? I'm new here
6 weeks in. previously tried onion juice scalp massage even sandalore briefly. years of minoxidil on its own with limited success. literally hundreds of minoxidil + rolling success stories on different platforms giving me hope. definitely working.visible in the last two weeks. hair coming alive. norwood 5/6 was nearly all gone. fuzz everywhere now. existing hair thickening. took pictures yesterday. will hopefully have progress photos in a month. im lightly rolling everyday with a 1mm then waiting an hour or two before adding minoxidil. keep experimenting with frequency of rolling (although dont roll to hard then apply minoxidil right away as i felt worryingly ill one night) and when you apply minoxidil. Dont know if progress is sustainable but too many people are having success for there to be some truth in this method.
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https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...perimental-androgen-receptor-inhibito.121000/
Also known as Breezula
Yes, surfed for it. Can find it in India. Heavy duties are imposed so can't order from o/s either.
Anyway, what do you think works best for diffuse thinners? I've started on big3 just yesterday.
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In all honesty the number one thing is finasteride or if if that doesn´t cut it dutasteride.
After that comes consistent long term use of minoxidil since that initially causes shedding in most people.
And of course for some people microneedling, diffuse thinners have had insane results, i myself haven´t really seen any improvement in six months but perhaps in time!
https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/microneedling-photo-results-summary.121072/
Be consistent with the big three and if you can definitively do microneedling as well. Take good pictures now and make sure to do all this for at least a year then compare. Don't expect results in a few months, hair grows so god damn slowly.. The number one enemy is impatience!
Thank-you very much! I will certainly give those at least a year unless fina causes some serious side effects which I wouldn't want at 19.
Thank-you very much! I will certainly give those at least a year unless fina causes some serious side effects which I wouldn't want at 19.
I think 19 is kind of young for finasteride/dutasteride, but I don't really have evidence for that claim. Just a gut feeling that using it during your sexual prime might be a bad idea.
I started finasteride at 26 and it's been working great for me. I had sides for the first month that started becoming less prominent over the course of 3 months. Now i'm 2 years in and my sides are gone. My libido is back to normal.