Violet Ray Device Ancient Hair Loss Studies

[Sparky4444]

Dear Sparx,

From your replies it seems that you have fundamental problems understanding, or accepting the scientific method.

Here is a link for your benefit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

If you have any suggestions to improve on this tried and tested approach, please feel free to enlighten the entire scientific community with your wisdom.

Dear bushbushhairybush...

I understand the scientific method...you believe it is infallible...I don't....the human race is still destroying this planet from the inside out, governments are shooting at their people, on and on and on..and you think the human race is infallible, subscribing to an infallible method??

Go stick your face back into some hairy, stinky bushbush, you condescending twat...er I mean, bush...

:jackit:

 

[bushbush]

the human race is still destroying this planet from the inside out, governments are shooting at their people

What do either of these things have to do with the scientific method?

 

[Sparky4444]

What do either of these things have to do with the scientific method?

uh, where did the scientific method come from??? Does the scientific method account for everything?? Does the scientific method explain why you're a douche bag??

Does scientific method EXACTLY explain the placebo effect?? NO!!!!!! Un, your brain can work against itself...and what is "itself"?? Why are we here??? Can the scientific method explain this??? NO!!!!!!

Jeezus --- you want proof...bentwad wants PROOF?? I didn't need proof 30 years ago to KNOW that there are planets around other stars...In fact, the scientific method should provide proof 50 years ago there are other planets around other stars....We know our sun is a star in the universe, just like the gazillion others out there, we knew these 100 years ago >> yet we still needed proof???

The scientific method does NOT account for everything...there are things we don't fully understand yet...200 years of so of the Industrial Age and we've arrived as a species that can say ANYTHING WITH ABSOLUTION???

Our bodies are electrical entities...we KNOW that electricity and magnetism are bound...Yet you and douche bent,I suspect, will say WITH ABSOLUTION that the earths magnetic field does NOT affect human behavior...You're the types that would say this WITH ABSOLUTION...until you have proof...


..it's either black and white with you arseholes...if you're not with me, you're against me...sounds like a fascist attitude to me...

..also...having been called a Nazi would incite rage from most people...bent doesn't seem to have a problem being called that...hmmmmm...interesting...I'm not saying with ABSOLUTION here, and I have NO PROOF, but one would have to think...

 

[Admin]

Please tone it down guys.

If its possible to discuss the merits of the study, lets try to stick to that. Personal attacks don't result in better understanding.

Admin

 

[Sparky4444]

Please tone it down guys.

If its possible to discuss the merits of the study, lets try to stick to that. Personal attacks don't result in better understanding.

Admin

I think this should be in the Alternative section...then these two guys can't insult everybody on how stupid they are for trying this thing

 

[karankaran]

Without quantum mechanics, our laptops won't work. Does quantum mechanics explain everything? No. But it works pretty well in the domain it has been proved to work.

Proof is important because it is evidence. Will you go in an operation theater with just a 'belief' that something is going to work. At that time, you will rely on past evidence that something works and the assurance that it will work while you are in there.

 

[benjt]

I think this should be in the Alternative section...then these two guys can't insult everybody on how stupid they are for trying this thing

I agree with you on the first, this should be moved to the alternative section.
And people saying things like "electrical energy applied to our scalp provides for mechanical stimulation of our scalp" don't need to be insulted, they are already making fun of themselves anyway. Same goes for "the government hid the violet ray so the people don't get free energy" or "Edgar Cayce predicted through psychic readings that the violet ray can be used for treating hair loss".
And remember? I even told you that you should try if you believe this works. You are the one who bailed out.

It sounds to me like you skimmed the book as he never made any simplistic claim without testing it first. A hypothesis perhaps. But that is science. This small field of bioelectric medicine is still moving forward even today. There are multiple FDA approved devices that electrically spur bone growth.

I know that there are, but for completely different reasons. Regarding skimming the book: Some chapters I read (most are not very long anyway), others I skimmed, yes. But the things in quotation marks in my last post were directly cited from the book and some things are just completely wrong, such as "positive = infection, negative = healing".

We are unaware of our bodies electric potential and interactions. I for one would not disregard one of the fathers of electricity... Tesla's invention just cause I think it probably doesnt work. So let's demonize it without proof either way. Silly young Internet trolls. The man who invented the electrical signal that powers your home must have been so dumbz.

The thing is that Tesla never made any claims about a "violet ray" and never actually invented the violet ray. The argumentation of the quackies is "in our device, we use Tesla coils, an invention of Tesla, thus Tesla invented the violet ray". Yeah, great. I can also build a tesla coil into my table and call it "Violet Table". Does not mean that my table will from now on heal anything or that the Violet Table was invented by Tesla. In fact, raw tesla coils are also used in early x-ray devices. Nobody ever claimed that these healed anything.

Does scientific method EXACTLY explain the placebo effect?? NO!!!!!!

Yes, it actually does. Just because you don't understand it does not mean it does not.

The scientific method does NOT account for everything...there are things we don't fully understand yet...200 years of so of the Industrial Age and we've arrived as a species that can say ANYTHING WITH ABSOLUTION???

I tried to explain to you the issue of contraindicators, but as I have feared, you did not comprehend it.

Our bodies are electrical entities...we KNOW that electricity and magnetism are bound...Yet you and douche bent,I suspect, will say WITH ABSOLUTION that the earths magnetic field does NOT affect human behavior...You're the types that would say this WITH ABSOLUTION...until you have proof...

You got it quite wrong. I say anything "WITH ABSOLUTION" that can be proven or disproven, such as the following claims made by you and Youcandoit in this thread:

• "electrical energy provides mechanical simulation to the scalp"
• "androgenetic alopecia is caused by a deficiency in thyroid hormones"
• "the thyroid gland controls circulation in the scalp"
• "Europe's form of government is monarchy" (seriously, who is that stupid?)
• atomidine as a concept

All these things are in contradiction to already proven facts.

I understand the scientific method...

You said the following things:

• "electrical energy provides mechanical simulation to the scalp"
• "Does scientific method EXACTLY explain the placebo effect?? NO!!!!!!"
• "I DONT NEED TO PROVE ANY OF MY STATEMENTS"

You clearly do not understand the scientific method. The placebo effect is completely covered by it. Scientific methodology also demands providing proof to own claims. Also, any high school science education would have taught you about potential transformations of electrical energy to mechanical energy.

Science is progress by hypothesis and proving or disproving the hypothesis by experimentation. Science is not using studies to negate any theoretical progress. Being stuck in an unproven paradigm and having no will to budge because "theres no proof" is insane.

I completely agree with you on that. And I have stated that in this thread a couple of times by now.
The problem that I have, though, is with claims such as the following:

• "the violet ray was hidden by the government to prohibit the people from getting free energy"
• "electric energy is converted by the scalp to mechanical energy"
• "the violet ray was invented by Tesla"
• "the thyroid gland controls circulation in the scalp"
• "androgenetic alopecia is a result of thyroid deficiency"

Additionally, I have problems with ideas such as homeopathy ("atomidine", as advertised in this thread by its creater and defended by Sparx4444), as there is not a single proof for them, and "psychic readings" which "predicted the efficacy of the violet ray device for hair loss treatment". Homeopathy? Psychic readings? You guys can't be serious. Apart from all of the above statements which are provably wrong.

...nothing worse than a peanut human being claiming "absolutes"....That's the part that gets me about bent-penis -- the claims of the "absolute"....It was ridiculous to think even up to 30 years ago that until we have scientific proof there are planets orbiting other stars that we must assume our solar system is the only one that has planets around it....Really?? Until we can see it or measure the unseen you were a nut as a scientist, or anyone for that fact, to state that there are other planets in our galaxy/universe...

Yeah, you are so good at this "scientific method" thing. There is a difference between things that can neither be proven or disproven at a point in time (s. hand-washing example). Dismissing those is stupid. Then there are things that can be disproven, such as:

• "the violet ray was hidden by the government to prohibit the people from getting free energy"
• "electric energy is converted by the scalp to mechanical energy"
• "the violet ray was invented by Tesla"
• "the thyroid gland controls circulation in the scalp"
• "androgenetic alopecia is a result of thyroid deficiency"

Please try to understand the difference. Nobody had to assume that our solar system was the only one. Both notions - namely that it is the only one, or that it isnt - were perfectly valid until we found proof. Now, the difference with all the statements above is that they are disproven.

I guess you can make quite a bit sucking dick on the streets in Europe, uh??

You are still incapable of actually bringing arguments to the table. You still have to resort to personal insults. Awesome. If you're interested in what I'm doing, I wrote it in one of my first posts on these forums here. You will probably not like it, though, because then you would hate science even more.

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Without quantum mechanics, our laptops won't work. Does quantum mechanics explain everything? No. But it works pretty well in the domain it has been proved to work.

Proof is important because it is evidence. Will you go in an operation theater with just a 'belief' that something is going to work. At that time, you will rely on past evidence that something works and the assurance that it will work while you are in there.

Exactly.

 

[I.D WALKER]

Benj, Will you be kind enough to tell me whether or not your scalp massaging is showing any benefits yet? Thanks again.

 

[Sparky4444]

bent -- if you feel ANYTHING when electrical energy is applied to your skin, there is a mechanical effect..done, done and done...I think it's clear you're being viewed as a nut on this thread...

...I think when it comes to pie-in-the-sky fantasy science, you're the one who is sadly perpetuating it here...

..and...um...how the placebo effect works is NOT UNDERSTOOD TO ABSOLUTION...no gas in the tank, the car won't start, that's ABSOLUTION...just because you THINK it's understood as such by science is your delusion...the placebo effect does NOT work every time, so IT CANNOT be explained by the scientific method...you're not as smart as you think you are...in fact, you are proving yourself the contrary as well as ignorant and prejudiced...

male pattern baldness hairloss is not understood TO ABSOLUTION..not EVEN CLOSE...show me a study where DR'ing and VR have been combined in a study...show me, big tough guy...show me the paper that outlines the ABSOLUTE path to male pattern baldness...show me there, tough, smart guy....ummmmm you can't...

...so when someone comes on here and says that doing this VR'ing with DR'ing has given a response, you either respect it, or call him a liar...you're just to chicken **** to call him a liar so you're trying to mask it in a myriad of scientific mumbo jumbo...

plus you don't understand anything about physics...high school at most , I'm thinking

 

[benjt]

@I.D Walker:

I can't tell if they do, unfortunately. I hopped off and back on minoxidil again, and I'm getting quite some regrowth from getting back on it (though applying minoxidil at a substantially lower dose). I can only say if massaging helps once I have reached a stable state with minoxidil again - until then its impossible to tell if massaging provides additional effect.

I did massage for approx 8 weeks before getting back on minoxidil. At least within those 8 weeks where I only derma-rolled and massaged (without using minoxidil or anything else), I did not witness any regrowth at all. Could be because massaging doesnt do anything, or it could be because 8 weeks are way too short to witness any regrowth.

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bent -- if you feel ANYTHING when electrical energy is applied to your skin, there is a mechanical effect..done, done and done...

How often do I have to post Wikipedia till you understand that there is no law of physics that allows for conversion of electrical to mechanical energy in your scalp?
But as you insist on there being a potential conversion: Prove it. Explain how electric energy can be converted on the scalp to mechanical energy. Explain that to me as I - according to what you say - have no clue about physics. I would be so happy if you enlightened me there (and, by the way, all the other physicists in the world).

plus you don't understand anything about physics...high school at most , I'm thinking

My B.Sc.'s minor was physics.

I think it's clear you're being viewed as a nut on this thread...

Oh, the reputation points given to my posts in this thread say otherwise. Should I post a screenshot of them?

..and...um...how the placebo effect works is NOT UNDERSTOOD TO ABSOLUTION...no gas in the tank, the car won't start, that's ABSOLUTION...just because you THINK it's understood as such by science is your delusion...the placebo effect does NOT work every time, so IT CANNOT be explained by the scientific method...you're not as smart as you think you are...in fact, you are proving yourself the contrary as well as ignorant and prejudiced...

Yes, it can be and was explained by scientific method. Unless, of course, you say that Harvard scientists don't know about scientific methodology.

male pattern baldness hairloss is not understood TO ABSOLUTION..not EVEN CLOSE...show me a study where DR'ing and VR have been combined in a study...show me, big tough guy...show me the paper that outlines the ABSOLUTE path to male pattern baldness...show me there, tough, smart guy....ummmmm you can't...

I never claimed that hairloss was understood to absolution. If it was, we would have a treatment by now. However, that has nothing to do with the VR. The VR - or at least all the theories in this thread trying to explain how it works - are contradictory to basic science.

...so when someone comes on here and says that doing this VR'ing with DR'ing has given a response, you either respect it, or call him a liar...you're just to chicken **** to call him a liar so you're trying to mask it in a myriad of scientific mumbo jumbo...

High-school grade physics is "scientific mumbo jumbo" to you? How sad.

 

[Sparky4444]

...lmao...live with your baldness and your imaginary superior intellect...you'll need that strength to be able to look into the mirror everyday at a bald head...each lonely day you'll live with the peace of mind that you THINK you're intelligent and superior...sigh..you poor soul..

done with you...good luck to you

 

[youngn]

I am literally lol at Sparx posts because they are so blatant but meaningful. It must be the closed mindedness of a younger generation to flood forums and regurgitate what they believe science is. Here's the thing about scientific studies, you have to take them for what they are worth. I cannot count how many times I've seen studies with conflicting conclusions from peer reviewed journals. Science is making a hypothesis and proving or disproving it. This can be done in your home by yourself or in a lab. And also benjt, there are exactly 0 studies showing a genetic marker for male pattern baldness because its not possible to prove. Thus making it always a hypothesis until the technology exists to prove such a claim.

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I know that there are, but for completely different reasons. Regarding skimming the book: Some chapters I read (most are not very long anyway), others I skimmed, yes. But the things in quotation marks in my last post were directly cited from the book and some things are just completely wrong, such as "positive = infection, negative = healing".

No. They are not completely different reasons. I read the book... you obviously did not.

The thing is that Tesla never made any claims about a "violet ray" and never actually invented the violet ray. The argumentation of the quackies is "in our device, we use Tesla coils, an invention of Tesla, thus Tesla invented the violet ray". Yeah, great. I can also build a tesla coil into my table and call it "Violet Table". Does not mean that my table will from now on heal anything or that the Violet Table was invented by Tesla. In fact, raw tesla coils are also used in early x-ray devices. Nobody ever claimed that these healed anything.

From all accounts I have read, Tesla and Paul Oudin designed the first device together and it was presented at the Worlds Fair in 1893 in Tesla's display. If you have proof otherwise then present it. Edit: And this seems pretty convincing to me: http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/no_date.htm

"electrical energy provides mechanical simulation to the scalp"

Hopefully no one has to explain to you how electrical or magnetic energy can be turned into mechanical energy or vice-versa.

"the thyroid gland controls circulation in the scalp"

To be fair, it sure can control that circulation: http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/11/1/78.full.pdf

"androgenetic alopecia is a result of thyroid deficiency"

I don't think any Doctor would disagree that hair loss can occur from hypothyroidism.

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And here's some proof electricity (yes I know the difference between electrostatic) can affect hair growth: http://www.regeneracioncapilar.com/ETG_Downloads/ETG-Journal-1990.pdf

This comparative, controlled study demonstrates the positive biologic effect on hair regrowth of a pulsed electrical field administered according to a regularized treatment schedule over 36 weeks. Mean hair count comparisons within the groups significantly favor the treatment group, which exhibited a 66.1% hair count increase over baseline. The control group increase over baseline was 25.6%. It is notable also that 29 of the 30 treatment subjects (96.7%) exhibited regrowth or no further hair loss. The process is without side effects and untoward reactions. The rationale of this phenomenon is unclear but is considered to be due to an electrophysiologic effect on the quiescent hair follicle, similar to that documented with respect to bone fracture and soft tissue repair enhancement. The electrical pulse may cause increased cell mitosis through calcium influx, involving both the hair follicle sheath and dermal papilla cells.

 

[bushbush]

there are exactly 0 studies showing a genetic marker for male pattern baldness because its not possible to prove. Thus making it always a hypothesis until the technology exists to prove such a claim.

Make up your mind. Is it not possible to prove, or will it be once 'the technology exists'? (fyi the 'technology' already exists and several candidate markers have been identified).

 

[benjt]

...lmao...live with your baldness and your imaginary superior intellect...you'll need that strength to be able to look into the mirror everyday at a bald head...each lonely day you'll live with the peace of mind that you THINK you're intelligent and superior...sigh..you poor soul..

done with you...good luck to you

Yeah, now that you're asked to actually prove your statements, you back out again. Same thing all over.

You: "Hey, I'm going to try this VR device, it's only a few bucks anyway"
Me: "So try it and prove us all wrong"
You: "Nah, I dont care enough about hairloss. I'd rather spent a couple of hundred dollars on a hair transplant than 40 bucks on this device which I think might work"

Now, the same situation. I ask you to explain how electrical energy can be converted to mechanical energy on our scalp (by the way, a possible conversion would be using a massaging device) which you claim all the time even though this contradicts high school-level physics and what can be easily found on Wikipedia. I even gave you the link a couple of times but I fear you did not understand the text behind the link. And what happens? You bail out again.

Here's the thing about scientific studies, you have to take them for what they are worth. I cannot count how many times I've seen studies with conflicting conclusions from peer reviewed journals. Science is making a hypothesis and proving or disproving it. This can be done in your home by yourself or in a lab.

I know that and I am not disputing that. Especially in the life sciences there are many contradictions. It is just that the theories presented in this thread are not even arguably right or wrong. They have been proven to be wrong.

From all accounts I have read, Tesla and Paul Oudin designed the first device together and it was presented at the Worlds Fair in 1893 in Tesla's display. If you have proof otherwise then present it. Edit: And this seems pretty convincing to me: http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/no_date.htm

This text is about "mechanical therapy", i.e. a mechanical (not an electrical) oscilator and not the "violet ray device". Did you actually read your link?

"electrical energy provides mechanical simulation to the scalp"

Hopefully no one has to explain to you how electrical or magnetic energy can be turned into mechanical energy or vice-versa.

I hope you are aware that the words enclosed in the quotation marks are not my own. That conversion was just one of the bullsh*t theories presented in this thread. And while I know of the possible conversions, I hope you know that none of them apply on our scalp.
Or are you trying to say that the statement in quotation marks is actually true? If so, are you going to defend the psychic readings, "electrical vibrations of the universe" and homeopathy next?

To be fair, it sure can control that circulation: http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/11/1/78.full.pdf

Yeah, great. Hypothyroidism. Not what the advocate of psychic readings was talking about.

"androgenetic alopecia is a result of thyroid deficiency"

I don't think any Doctor would disagree that hair loss can occur from hypothyroidism.

Did you notice that word "androgenetic" at the beginning of the sentence? I also don't know if you noticed that we are dealing with androgenetic alopecia in these forums and not hypothyroidism-induced hairloss.

I'm also wondering if you read the thread. Some of the statements that were made here are:

• "Androgenetic Alopecia is caused by thyroid deficiency". This was "proven" with a link to "thyroid for dummies" which did specifically not make statements about Androgenetic Alopecia. The initiator of this thread did not understand the difference between androgenetic alopecia and thyroid-induced alopecia. I hope that at least you do.
• "The violet ray device was hidden by the government because they don't want the people to have free energy". Physically, this is complete BS as the alleged concept contradicts the law of conservation of energy. Conspiracy theory at its finest.
• A quote about how the "modern world" gained knowledge about the "great powers" of the "violet ray device" for treating hairloss, taken directly from a post in this thread by its initiatior:

  I'm a believer in edgar cayce, not too many people can channel exact information about the Dead Sea scrolls before they were discovered, as well as predict exact date and how they would be found.
  
  People will realize soon, that science and pseudo science are one, do not deny that part of you that is imagination

  Psychic readings channeling information about the Dead Sea scrolls. Awesome. And one more, because it's so funny:
  

  he received this info in trance meditative state through what he called the akashic records which was accessed via his subconscious mind

  Yes, according to the initiator of this thread, the secret knowledge about the violet ray was conceived in "trance meditative state".
• The producer of the Violet Ray recommends using "atomidine" to facilitate its effect as quoted by Youcandoit in this thread. Look up atomidine for a great laugh. Homeopathy at its finest.
• "The violet ray's electrical energy provides mechanical stimulation to the scalp". I genuinely hope that you actually understand that this statement is false. While there obviously are conversions from electrical to mechanical energy, e.g. in engines and magnetism, these do not apply on our scalp. Sparx4444's argument was the following:
  

  bent -- if you feel ANYTHING when electrical energy is applied to your skin, there is a mechanical effect..done, done and done...

  I hope you understand why this statement is wrong. If not, please read Wikipedia.
• "Europe is still ruled by kings and queens you so retarded lol". Awesome education. I don't know where you're from youngn, but I hope your high school was a tiny bit more up to date.

I dont have any problem with trying out things that haven't been tried out before if there is a valid hypothesis supporting why it might work. All of the hypotheses in this thread were either based on conspiracy theories ("the government [insert random BS here]"), homeopathy (atomidine), lack of high school pyhsics education ("The violet ray's electrical energy provides mechanical stimulation to the scalp"), lack of basic understanding of Androgenetic Alopecia (s. thyroid discussion) or psychic readings. Those are not in any way valid hypotheses.
Do you agree with me on that? Please answer that question. I just want to know if you're also supporting homeopathy and psychic readings, so I can stop trying to explain using logic.

 

[I.D WALKER]

Thanx Benjt. I think I will start scalp massage myself on a routine basis. I'll thank you in advance if and when you report a follow-up

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Among many of his other well documented and respected accomplishments Doctor Einstein is also the beloved author of one of my favorite and most comforting modern day quotes," the imagination is a preview of life's coming attractions." We needs more scientific minded philosophers like him. His inane sense of humanity both inwardly and outwardly positively touched this world.

 

[youngn]

This text is about "mechanical therapy", i.e. a mechanical (not an electrical) oscilator and not the "violet ray device". Did you actually read your link?

It's quite obvious you aren't reading anything I linked. The first part of his article was talking specifically about the effects of "ELECTRICAL THERAPY", and his conversation with D'Arsonval. Google D'Arsonval and see what device he is popular for making. :wow:

I hope you are aware that the words enclosed in the quotation marks are not my own. That conversion was just one of the bullsh*t theories presented in this thread. And while I know of the possible conversions, I hope you know that none of them apply on our scalp.
Or are you trying to say that the statement in quotation marks is actually true? If so, are you going to defend the psychic readings, "electrical vibrations of the universe" and homeopathy next?

Yes. I am aware. I did not read the whole thread so I don't know what you are referring to with electrical vibrations. But the whole universe certainly has an electrical side. Even the earth resonates at a specific frequency. This is not unproven science.

Did you notice that word "androgenetic" at the beginning of the sentence? I also don't know if you noticed that we are dealing with androgenetic alopecia in these forums and not hypothyroidism-induced hairloss.

Maybe this is just a matter of wording. Maybe they meant male pattern baldness. To be so literal then you would say that androgenetic alopecia is ONLY controlled by androgens. So when you cut off your balls all your hair should grow back, or everyone that takes finasteride will never lose hair. But that's just not the case. There's much more to it. You are just being to literal with wording. I do not want to debate about this, I am just making a point.

"Androgenetic Alopecia is caused by thyroid deficiency". This was "proven" with a link to "thyroid for dummies" which did specifically not make statements about Androgenetic Alopecia. The initiator of this thread did not understand the difference between androgenetic alopecia and thyroid-induced alopecia. I hope that at least you do.

I do.

"The violet ray device was hidden by the government because they don't want the people to have free energy". Physically, this is complete BS as the alleged concept contradicts the law of conservation of energy. Conspiracy theory at its finest.

I don't put anything down until its proven because I believe the words "conspiracy theory" were invented to make people who question the government look bat **** crazy. That being said, the statements sounds far fetched.

Yes, according to the initiator of this thread, the secret knowledge about the violet ray was conceived in "trance meditative state".

The producer of the Violet Ray recommends using "atomidine" to facilitate its effect as quoted by Youcandoit in this thread. Look up atomidine for a great laugh. Homeopathy at its finest.

I am not sure what some people have against Homeopathy. There are shills in every industry... even doctors. I looked up atomidine. I have never seen it, but using an open mind I can say that certainly it could have had an effect. Do you know how a violet ray effects skin? I don't think anyone exactly knows, but lets for a minute hypothesize that it can work like iontophoresis. Then we would be pushing iodine through the skin into an affected area which is a great disinfectant among other things. Not to mention most people are iodine deficient. Can you disprove that it doesn't work? Have you tried it? Much of ancient medicine and homeopathy have been proven by science anyway.

"The violet ray's electrical energy provides mechanical stimulation to the scalp". I genuinely hope that you actually understand that this statement is false. While there obviously are conversions from electrical to mechanical energy, e.g. in engines and magnetism, these do not apply on our scalp. Sparx4444's argument was the following:

I think you are just arguing over wording again. Cause obviously electrical energy can be turned to mechanical energy through your body.

I just want to know if you're also supporting homeopathy and psychic readings, so I can stop trying to explain using logic.

I don't believe in the generalized psychic readings, but the brief research I've done on Edgar Cayce I could make a guess at what was going on:

Cayce's methods involved lying down and entering into a sleep state, usually at the request of a subject who was seeking help with health or other personal problems. Subjects would not normally be present, and their questions would be given to Cayce, who would then proceed with a reading

Have you ever solved a problem in your sleep? Have you seen the studies where scientists were able to solve advanced equations after taking LSD? Have you read experiences of people who took DMT? Obviously there's things our brain does that science cannot explain. Maybe Cayce was able to access a higher level of thinking when sleeping. Does that mean he was right about everything? NO. But I am not going to disregard everything he said without valid proof.

Benjt - you have a problem with having an open mind. There's many things you cannot understand and will have to accept. You seem really young.

 

[bushbush]

Much of ancient medicine and homeopathy have been proven by science anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Evidence_and_efficacy

 

[youngn]

Really don't care what a Wikipedia article says. Its highly dependant on what you consider homeopathy. If you think plants can't have an affect on your health you are ignorant. There was medicine long before pharmaceutical companies existed. Do a pubmed search for "Inonotus obliquus" and see tons of studies supporting the reasons people have used it for years. Plants are medicine, plants can kill you. Science knows this. The end.

 

[bushbush]

Plants are medicine, plants can kill you. Science knows this. The end.

Of course there are remedial properties of plant derived compounds, but what you are describing is not homoeopathy by any definition of the word.

 

[benjt]

It's quite obvious you aren't reading anything I linked. The first part of his article was talking specifically about the effects of "ELECTRICAL THERAPY", and his conversation with D'Arsonval. Google D'Arsonval and see what device he is popular for making. :wow:

I actually read the whole thing before replying. But Tesla only refers to his talk with D'Arsonval in it and not to the principles. The only substantial statements are made about mechanical therapy; electrical therapy is only a sidenote and a very small part of the text. And, by the way, electrical therapy does not equal violet ray. Many of Tesla's findings in electrical therapy are completely valid. The violet ray as such was not an invention of Tesla - something I have also covered earlier in this thread. But the companies selling the VR often claim it is Tesla's invention, while it is just a small tesla coil and nothing else.

Yes. I am aware. I did not read the whole thread so I don't know what you are referring to with electrical vibrations.

Oh, you should read it then. It's entertaining. You will read how the moon has a negative influence on electrical energy and other fun stuff and how the planet venus provides "female energy".

Maybe this is just a matter of wording. Maybe they meant male pattern baldness. To be so literal then you would say that androgenetic alopecia is ONLY controlled by androgens. So when you cut off your balls all your hair should grow back, or everyone that takes finasteride will never lose hair. But that's just not the case. There's much more to it. You are just being to literal with wording. I do not want to debate about this, I am just making a point.

Firstly, even if you replace "androgenetic alopecia" with "male pattern baldness" in that statement, it still holds. Now you are the one arguing over wording. Male pattern baldness is not a consequence of thyroid deficiency. Secondly, even if androgenetic alopecia was controlled only by androgens, this would not mean that you grow your hair back by cutting your balls off. The miniaturization effect and perifollicular fibrisos is not reversible through lowering your DHT levels - otherwise, you could also achieve full regrowth with finasteride, which you cannot.

I don't put anything down until its proven because I believe the words "conspiracy theory" were invented to make people who question the government look bat **** crazy. That being said, the statements sounds far fetched.

So arguing over wording again. Even if you don't call it a conspiracy theory, it is just as unproven as anything else Youcandoit came up with "explaining" the violet ray.

I am not sure what some people have against Homeopathy. There are shills in every industry... even doctors. I looked up atomidine. I have never seen it, but using an open mind I can say that certainly it could have had an effect. Do you know how a violet ray effects skin? I don't think anyone exactly knows, but lets for a minute hypothesize that it can work like iontophoresis. Then we would be pushing iodine through the skin into an affected area which is a great disinfectant among other things. Not to mention most people are iodine deficient. Can you disprove that it doesn't work? Have you tried it? Much of ancient medicine and homeopathy have been proven by science anyway.

The point is the homeopathic aspect of atomidine, not iodine. Atomidine solutions are prepared by putting one drop of iodine for 2 days, then letting the solution rest for two days. Then put a drop into it for three days, then rest for three days. According to the logic of homeopathy, the lower the concentration of an agent in a solution, the stronger the effect of a solution. They call it "purification". And that is purified bullsh*t. Another heomeopathic concept is that everything that has identical symptoms can be treated with something that would create the same symptoms in a healthy person. That is pure charlatanry.

I think you are just arguing over wording again. Cause obviously electrical energy can be turned to mechanical energy through your body.

But not by letting an electrical current flow through your skin, which was claimed. If its turned into mechanical energy, then by muscles.

Have you ever solved a problem in your sleep? Have you seen the studies where scientists were able to solve advanced equations after taking LSD? Have you read experiences of people who took DMT? Obviously there's things our brain does that science cannot explain. Maybe Cayce was able to access a higher level of thinking when sleeping. Does that mean he was right about everything? NO. But I am not going to disregard everything he said without valid proof.

Cayce had no scientific education whatsoever. And per "disregarding everything he said without valid proof": Great, why dont we check everything any psychic says? I mean, it cant be disproven when a psychic says that there are small negative energy charges in your hair created by the pink invisible unicorn. So how about we follow that trail?

Benjt - you have a problem with having an open mind. There's many things you cannot understand and will have to accept. You seem really young.

I have a problem with blindly following psychics and esoterics "because they cant be disproven". What is the reason that we should follow a psychic? What makes his points, which are founded on nothing, worth pursuing? Why are they viable to be tried? Given that reasoning, anything any psychic says is a valid potential treatment. I say we get all the psychics from the mental hospitals and ask them how to cure diseases. Their points are as valid as Edgar Cayce's, aren't they?
Cayce also said that our souls dwelm on faraway planets. Should we also assume this because it cant be disproven?

Its highly dependant on what you consider homeopathy. If you think plants can't have an affect on your health you are ignorant. There was medicine long before pharmaceutical companies existed. Do a pubmed search for "Inonotus obliquus" and see tons of studies supporting the reasons people have used it for years. Plants are medicine, plants can kill you. Science knows this. The end.

No, it does not depend on what you consider homeopathy. Plants are not homeopathy. Homeopathy consists of two main principles:
1) The weaker an agent in a solution, the stronger its effects, because it becomes "purified" and "potentiated". Wikipedia on that: "The idea is considered a pseudoscience, because at commonly used dilutions, no molecules of the original material are likely to remain."
2) Treat a suffering with medication that would create the same symptoms in a healthy person - what the f*ck man. They call this principle "similia similibus curentur".
That is homeopathy. Plants are not.